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Old 2013-04-13, 10:59   Link #881
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He had a superstition. So, yeah, dumb luck.
I guess we just disagree with the term "dumb" here. I think it would be dumb luck if he just chose to go for a card randomly.

But Komano did think this through (and we have seen Komano is an expert at analyzing things). Yes Komano didn't know what card will be chosen but based on his analysis he had a pretty good idea of what card might be called.

Was it really dumb for him to try something like this in this type of situation?
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Old 2013-04-13, 11:47   Link #882
Anh_Minh
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No, I praise him for not giving up.

But the reason he expected a "The" card? As SeijiSensei (and Nishida, for that matter) explained, it was complete superstition.
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Old 2013-04-13, 11:53   Link #883
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No, I praise him for not giving up.

But the reason he expected a "The" card? As SeijiSensei (and Nishida, for that matter) explained, it was complete superstition.
Didn't Nishida link what Komano did to top players as well?
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Old 2013-04-13, 12:00   Link #884
Anh_Minh
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Experienced more than top. It doesn't really take away from the fact it's irrational, though.

It's how superstitions are created - they think they notice a pattern, and confirmation bias does the rest.

Nishida's point was, it's not supposed to occur until you've seen a lot of games. So he saw it as a symptom of growth. But it's still nothing more than a superstition.
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Old 2013-04-13, 12:38   Link #885
garbage
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what a great and tense match, loved how their two A class lost while yeah finally!! kana wins an important key match uplifting their morale & finally tsukue -kun wins the game for them man that would be quite a shock to Akashi - loosing to the class C & D players.

Arata's sensei finally realized he here for misuzawa and see's chihaya and co. in a different light. As for the other spectators, I feel Mizusawa is finally making a name for itself. Chihaya too even though she lost she went head to head with the western representative and lost only by a card.

well here it is the long awaited loss of Chihaya, TBH it was a bit expected as this is a rare safe chance to show her lose yet not affect their standing.

as usual Chihayafuru delivers week after week, great fun.

EDIT:

additional thoughts: oh how could I forget , loved that hand unclenching scene between taichi and chihaya, say what you will but I definitely believe this is deep understanding between two people who have strong bonds & shared life together.

As for tsutomu's win. I wonder why people are saying things like gamble vs luck, when by it's very definition gambling IS based on luck, it's for all intents and purposes the same. All his dribble concerning "the" cards is hogwash.Nishida and most probably Taichi knows it too, that this is nothing more than superstition. it's actually all the more interesting because of who he is, with all his dedication to Data and logical approach yet there always comes a time in any competitive sport when all those data wont help you, and its down to the luck of the draw. Any veteran competitor knows this, certainly experienced it first hand during the height of my competitive years. This is what Nishida is alluding to, since only veterans would know this, and would not be perturbed by the situation but make the best of it, and go with the flow, not let it destroy their rhythm. Of course most of us ( am personally guilty as well ) create this so called "superstitions" as a kind of coping mechanism so yeah there, that's how it is.
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Last edited by garbage; 2013-04-13 at 13:11. Reason: additional thoughts
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Old 2013-04-13, 14:33   Link #886
inisipis
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Another strong and very riveting. I'm holding my breath to the very end of the game, like the two first years, even though I already got a fair idea of the outcome, shows how engaging the show is.

Chihaya lost, Megumu wins but still feels bad about the teams outcome, gives the two characters a simultaneous lesson that they must learn to each their own. It surprises them both that something unforeseen would personally affect them, give them better understanding and more fortitude.

Tsutomu's win and eventual explanation on his actions, remind me of scene in Star trek where the ever logical minded Spock decided on a course of action, however illogical it is, he believe is the right one to choose. Later Kirk rib him for doing something that is contrary to his personality of just guessing something.

Tsutomu may not acknowledge it, but by going out of his comfort zone on his game play, by sticking out to what he believe is right despite to it being contrary, he's getting to be a much better player and more importantly a more rounded person.
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:29   Link #887
Guardian Enzo
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I think the point of the scene, really, is that Desk-kun has become Karuta-kun - he's tossed aside hard fact and made a decision based completely on superstition, just like a real Karuta veteran. He's just too proud to admit it was superstition.

Ballsy? Hell yes. Dumb luck? Also yes.
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Old 2013-04-13, 19:43   Link #888
hyperborealis
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50-50 is a prescription for indecision. If you look at both cards thinking either is equally likely, then you won't know which to go for and then possibly hesitate, with fatal results. A superstition gives you a decisive clarity, which might be an advantage.

Though the chance of a card being read is 50-50, the chance of either player converting is contingent on the skills and experience of the players themselves. As Harada puts it, there is no luck in karuta.
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Old 2013-04-13, 23:57   Link #889
HandofFate
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man, Arata, stop taking everything so serious.
You wrote the letter of apology.

Just go out and watch.

and lol @ not even playing a practice game with shinobu because its 'the teams day'

Kana has been playing every single match right? So her stamina is drained.
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Old 2013-04-14, 02:54   Link #890
Quadratic
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Nice finish to this match, even if it did feel like 1 episode too long. Still hated the trio of photograhers, though .
I hope Arata's intention of staying until the end means meeting with team Mizusawa, since he can't watch their game anymore.

I enjoyed the interesting parallels and contrast between the different characters.
Chihaya's emotionally invested to be upset about her loss vs Megumu's newly discovered emotions to her team losing the match.
The first clenching was a brilliant touch to show how invested she is in becoming Queen.

An interesting contrast between Arata and Tsukuba: Tsukuba being a person willingly and constantly breaking the rules, and even trying to abuse the power of the empress, to get into a match vs Arata's rule broken = suffer the consequences (even the organisers seemed willingly to let it slide before Arata insisted on being punished!).
A bit embarassing that Tsukuba hasn't been able to back up his talk, though . I will shake my head if he loses the upcoming match!

Go, Pizusawa!
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Old 2013-04-14, 04:03   Link #891
inisipis
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Questions:

Correct me if I'm wrong ,from what I gather to Sado's "blizzard" reaction to Hakuo's lose, it seems that Retro is the lone victor, am I right?

From Megumu's words that this is her last group competition, won't there be run-up match with team Hakuo for third place, or are there no more match for them and just that there are two third placers?
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Old 2013-04-14, 07:02   Link #892
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He had a superstition. So, yeah, dumb luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think the point of the scene, really, is that Desk-kun has become Karuta-kun - he's tossed aside hard fact and made a decision based completely on superstition, just like a real Karuta veteran. He's just too proud to admit it was superstition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Experienced more than top. It doesn't really take away from the fact it's irrational, though.

It's how superstitions are created - they think they notice a pattern, and confirmation bias does the rest.

Nishida's point was, it's not supposed to occur until you've seen a lot of games. So he saw it as a symptom of growth. But it's still nothing more than a superstition.
I think "superstition" is a poor translation, because it's given what happens an overly pejorative connotation. I'd have gone with "jinx".

The other issue with the translation here is that the original implies that it is something that all karuta players agree on. Actually, it's not that single players decide on "their own superstitions" to follow, rather, that certain cards seem to get read over others.

There are actually strategies based on it - e.g. when deciding which cards to send to one's opponent during the course of a match.

And yes, of course, it still comes down to luck. But what Nishida was impressed about wasn't that Tsutomu had decided on a particular superstition, but that he'd realised by himself, just by his keen observation and obsessive note-taking, that there were certain cards that seemed jinxed in karuta, and made a decision to go for the other card based on that knowledge. Then, as hyperborealis observed, that decisiveness gives him the advantage in converting when the other person really should have won.
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Last edited by karice67; 2013-04-15 at 20:20.
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Old 2013-04-14, 19:19   Link #893
Leo_Otaku
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I didn't expect her to lose actually. Really didn't see that coming. Yay Shinobu ^-^ I have the biggest girl crush on her lol. I wish she was the protagonist >.> She is so awesome! hat part with Taichi and Chihaya as so adorable too I miss she wasn't so oblivious sometimes.

OT: Is it me or does Chihaya cry in at least every episode? I swear she was about to in this one too. Kinda gets on my nerves >.>
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Old 2013-04-18, 10:50   Link #894
hyperborealis
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The title poem for this episode is #40. Here's the romanji, followed by Mostow's translation:

Shinoburedo
Iro ni ide ni keri
Waga koi wa
Mono ya omou to
Hito no tou made

. Even though I hide it,
it shows all over my face,
. such is my longing,
so that people ask me
"What are you thinking about?"

The key thing to appreciate is that this is the Shinoburedo poem, the poem that belongs to Shinobu as closely as the Chihayaburu poem does to Chihaya.

The card comes up three times in the episode. The first time is early in the episode, while Shinobu is practicing with the cards. It's shown on top of one of the piles of cards before her: the animation does a close-up, to make sure we don't miss it. It's paired with #65, topping the next pile. This poem is a rejected lover's lament at the loss of her reputation. In the anime, the reputation lost here is Shinobu's: Arata sees through her airy exclamation to the Fukui West players that "Team matches are so nice," to remember her earlier expression of disdain for team matches. Arata sees through that disdain too, when she invites him to play a casual match, to understand that her apparent disrespect for karuta as a means to kill time masks the solitude that enfolds her due to her overwhelming strength as a player. Since she is so strong, matches aren't challenging to her, so they become ways to pass time. Likewise, Arata understands that her strength isolates her from other players, leading to her disdain for playing with others on a team.

The card comes up next, dramatically, as the final card Megumu takes to win her match against Chihaya. Since the entire match has been, at least for Megumu, a fight to see who will challenge Shinobu to become queen, the fact she takes this card might foreshadow her eventual success in winning the right to face Shinobu. But paradoxically, after all the buildup and time devoted to the match, its conclusion comes almost as an after-thought: the animation jump-cuts over the final two cards to the image of the Shinobu card settling in the corner, to Chihaya's thanking Megumu, and then hurries immediately to Tsutomu's luck of the draw showdown. The effect is to suggest that winning the match is a relatively minor point.

The major point I think is given by the sequence just before, where Chihaya mentally exclaims to Shinobu "we can't let Shinobu-chan be alone forever!" Strikingly, Chihaya's thought appears to reach Shinobu: the very next image shows us Shinobu perking up as if in response. On a prosaic level, she merely hears the Shinoburedo card being read on the floor, as she remarks to Arata. But the Crunchyroll translation of the episode title--"People would always ask if I was pining for someone"--brings us back to the issue of Shinobu's solitude, and to her deepest wish, unknown perhaps even to herself, which is not to be alone, to have precisely the friendships in karuta that Chihaya wants to bring to her. Megumu may win the match, but Chihaya makes the connection to Shinobu's heart.

I like that Chihaya's wish is inclusive: she wants Megumu to join her at Shinobu's level. This generosity is rather in contrast to Megumu's earlier insistence that the one who is going to face Shinobu "is me!"

The final time the Shinoburdo card appears is while Chihaya is agonizing over why she lost the match. She can't understand how she lost the card, since it is normally one of her better ones, and since--we can deduce this--it was on her own side. The following sequence, inspired by Taichi's beautiful lovingkindness in relaxing Chihaya's hand, teaches her that she needs to learn to relax, if she is going to reach the level of being able to take Shinobu's own card.

----

One last thing: I very much liked Tsutomu's own thoughts about how hard and scary it is to play karuta when everything comes down to you. It brings to a fitting conclusion the dialogue he has had with Sumire, told off to the side and in between the main action, during the last few episodes. Suetsugu's narrative brilliance is really impressive.
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Old 2013-04-19, 15:43   Link #895
Bern-san
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A great episode, Fujisuki is so funny
Who played against who was somewhat predictable and was surprised how Taichi decided to confront pseudo-Arata, if only knew how much of a pervert this guy is

Retro's visit to Arata was also enjoyable, I want to see Chihaya's reaction when she realizes the Queen is watching her.

Do we really have to wait a week?
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Old 2013-04-19, 15:49   Link #896
YourIdeas
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Episode 15:

Tsutomu once again showing off just how amazing his analytical and deductive abilities are. He's really aspiring to be a great coach. Apparently, Kanade did hurt herself (not sure if I just didn't notice, or if I was supposed to feel like everyone in that it was an entirely new revelation).

Sakurazaka gets a more proper introduction this episode, and just as her appearance and demeanor suggests, she's a ruthless coach whose intended to keep Fujisaki as strong as possible, even if it means sacrificing a 3rd year in order to get a potential 2nd or 1st year exposed.

Fujisaki's 3rd years are another weird bunch whose connecting theme seems to be different forms of perversion. (though at the very least, we get Kana-chan's cup size out of it )

Shinobu just doesn't seem to care about people, and managed to do some weird.....strip tease.....thing.......but anyways, she's now actually watching the team match, so it'll be interesting to see her reactions, as I'm sure she'll only be interested in Chihaya.

As the first card won't be read until the next episode, I'm not sure as to the episode length of this match. It can either be a total stomp (Mizusawa's counterparts look stronger), or like the semi-finals, can end up being a close match. In either case, I'm guessing we'll be spending another 3 episodes on this particular match. With all these new characters in addition to some bigger names being brought in (the reader, Shinobu, etc), I'm going to be expecting to see a bunch of interesting exposition.
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Old 2013-04-19, 15:50   Link #897
Sol Falling
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Saw episode 15...Oh shit, Shinobu's watching! lol. Very nice build-up episode. Fujisaki's coach is hot stuff (lol). I'm really looking forward to the match.

Dunno who to root for between Hokuo and Akashi for the third place finals match. I like Megumu more than any of the characters in Hokuo, but they might deserve some sympathy after their trashing by Fujisaki.

I wonder if they went and got a real pro karuta reader to do the voicework for the reader this episode. If so that would be really cool. The voice quality certainly sounds different. Assuming that's the case, it's a very nice treat for us anime watchers.

The tension of the final match over the next couple weeks is gonna be killer. I'm already on the edge of my toes, and the match has not even started, lol.
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Old 2013-04-19, 16:32   Link #898
YourIdeas
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I wonder if they went and got a real pro karuta reader to do the voicework for the reader this episode. If so that would be really cool. The voice quality certainly sounds different. Assuming that's the case, it's a very nice treat for us anime watchers.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain the reader was seen last season, in particular, reading for the Master Finals. She's the one that got Kanade really thrilled about working towards becoming a card reader.

EDIT: Oh, I think you're talking about the voice actress. My bad there.
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Old 2013-04-19, 17:22   Link #899
mistress_kisara
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Episode 15

Its the team finals! I don't care if Mizusawa loses just as long as Chihaya wins against Rion! And Taichi's facing the pervert Arata-clone, this is really going to be a tough match for all of them!
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Old 2013-04-19, 18:24   Link #900
ars89
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So Kana actually injured herself. They got a real treat having her read for the finals. Though isn't that like not allowed since her grand-daughter is playing in the finals? It's like a home game for Rion. Well Chihaya was able to see her real self. Liked how Retro went to tell Arata, though he still won't go. Oh man even Shinobu went to see it. Wonder how Chihaya will react when she knows Shinobu is watching.
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