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Old 2013-06-14, 18:10   Link #1281
mistress_kisara
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THAT ENDING..I'm so happy for Taichi now! Chihaya made the right decision to watch his match! Now time for some Shinobu vs. Arata...
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Old 2013-06-14, 20:20   Link #1282
Guardian Enzo
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Tsukuba was in there too, lower right.

If Tsutomu was ignored by his friends, what horrible lower level is Tsukuba at, ignored even by viewers?
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Old 2013-06-15, 03:36   Link #1283
SeijiSensei
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Yet another twenty-two minutes that seemed to take three.

I thought the scene between Chihaya and the Fujisaki coach humanized the latter a bit. She seemed truly concerned about Chihaya's injury, though perhaps she would have been less concerned about someone without Chihaya's talent.

I love how Shinobu gets infuriated when her little attempts at psychological scheming just bring a smile to Arata's face. I still think she harbors feelings for him that she doesn't understand and cannot acknowledge. I began thinking this first when they met outside the shrine, but I thought the scene where she disrobed in front of him especially made the point. While it illustrated her immaturity, it also suggested there was more beneath the surface than just a rivalry of childhood origins.

Shinobu and Chihaya seem destined to become friends if the Queen ever lets herself have a friend. Who else could Shinobu find that shares her love of karuta and cutesy logo clothing? What a double date that would be: Chihaya x Taichi and Shinobu x Arata. Though I'm sure none of the romantic relationships will be resolved this season, that set of pairings would provide a nice sense of closure.

My one disappointment is that they couldn't find the time to show us any of the matches involving the supporting characters, especially given how much time was wasted on recaps. I rather hoped they would spend an episode on Kana's and Tsutomu's matches, and that they might meet in the C finals. I don't think the author wants to pit any of the Mizusawa players against each other in a competitive match though. It would undermine the whole teamwork and friendship aspect of the story.
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Old 2013-06-15, 04:49   Link #1284
Guardian Enzo
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Well, she pitted four of them against each other in the finals at the nationals in S1...
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Old 2013-06-15, 04:54   Link #1285
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Well, she pitted four of them against each other in the finals at the nationals in S1...
I'll admit that advancing age makes it difficult for me to remember the details of something I last watched about a year ago. I'd have a hard time recounting the details of episodes from earlier this season!
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Old 2013-06-15, 06:59   Link #1286
Guardian Enzo
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Who are you, again? What were we talking about?

I certainly agree with your point that Shinobu has feelings for Arata - I think it's one of the reasons he's managed to get inside her head competitively, and take her off her game. She tries every trick in the book on him, and he just smiles. Drives her crazy.

For me, yes, I'm disappointed we didn't get to see Tsutomu or Tsukuba (T2 and T3) in their finals - the finals at the Nationals last season were actually much more dramatic. I'm just as disappointed that Taichi's match was over as quickly as it was - in many ways it was the developmental and emotional climax for two entire seasons, and it was over far too quickly. Was it really necessary to spend an entire episode on caricatured gaijin students, or half an episode on creepy stalker photographers? Given how glacial the pacing for much of this season was it's a bit irksome that the Class B-D finals pretty much got the shaft.
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Old 2013-06-15, 07:01   Link #1287
Kirarakim
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I agree while the writing itself is still excellent the pacing and direction was disappointing this season.
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Old 2013-06-15, 09:55   Link #1288
pagan poor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post

I certainly agree with your point that Shinobu has feelings for Arata - I think it's one of the reasons he's managed to get inside her head competitively, and take her off her game. She tries every trick in the book on him, and he just smiles. Drives her crazy.
Also, I believe that she has not beaten him in a competitive karuta match either. So it's easy to see how he sees her as Shinobu-chan, and not necessarily as the Queen.
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Old 2013-06-15, 10:06   Link #1289
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
For me, yes, I'm disappointed we didn't get to see Tsutomu or Tsukuba (T2 and T3) in their finals - the finals at the Nationals last season were actually much more dramatic. I'm just as disappointed that Taichi's match was over as quickly as it was - in many ways it was the developmental and emotional climax for two entire seasons, and it was over far too quickly. Was it really necessary to spend an entire episode on caricatured gaijin students, or half an episode on creepy stalker photographers? Given how glacial the pacing for much of this season was it's a bit irksome that the Class B-D finals pretty much got the shaft.
I was also disappointed by that. Their priorities seem a little odd. They spent ages on minor matches while a major match like this one is over in a instant. Is that the fault of the anime or the manga though?
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Old 2013-06-15, 10:06   Link #1290
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't know. I think the point of his development since the team final is that a lot of his bad luck was about his mentality. As long as he stops trying to look cool and being overly concerned with Chihaya, he'll have a lot more luck than before.
It's not about luck. When he's calm, he becomes a monster.

I don't know if they showed this in the anime because I still haven't watched the episode, but in the manga, in that moment (before Chihaya got there) Taichi was so depressed that he had stopped caring about the game, and in this state of mind he accidental entered the "zone". In this state he destroyed all his opponents (he trashed Retro by 18 cards!!!).

Retro commented that this Taichi was totally different than how he usually is, and even Rion was losing confidence when she saw how calm and unconcerned Taichi was.

And then Chihaya got there, and Taichi reverted to his usual, worrywart self.

Taichi still won against Rion, but if Chihaya wasn't there, he would have wiped the floor with her.


What Taichi needs to do now is to learn how to make use of these amazing skills at will. The secret is to stay calm even if Chihaya is close by. To play as if Chihaya wasn't there.
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Old 2013-06-15, 11:41   Link #1291
Blaat
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Honestly I find the episode rather disappointing we spent so much time with Taichi struggling to reach A class and now that he has done the winning match lasted only 5 minutes or so.

On top of that we're not going to see the finals matches of the other Misuzawa characters.

I'm also disappointed with Nishida who decided to abandon his teammates and with the girls who all decided to root for Taichi. Tsutomu worked his arse off collecting data so that his team could win and this is the thanks he gets. Not to mentioned Tsukuba who gets ignored all together.
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Originally Posted by pagan poor View Post
Also, I believe that she has not beaten him in a competitive karuta match either. So it's easy to see how he sees her as Shinobu-chan, and not necessarily as the Queen.
Correct, the anime has removed the flashblack involving Shinobu and Arata along with Taichi meeting Suo.
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I was also disappointed by that. Their priorities seem a little odd. They spent ages on minor matches while a major match like this one is over in a instant. Is that the fault of the anime or the manga though?
Definitely the manga.
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I thought the scene between Chihaya and the Fujisaki coach humanized the latter a bit. She seemed truly concerned about Chihaya's injury, though perhaps she would have been less concerned about someone without Chihaya's talent.
Gifted caruta players do seem to be getting special treatment.
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Last edited by Blaat; 2013-06-15 at 11:56.
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Old 2013-06-15, 12:06   Link #1292
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I don't know if they showed this in the anime because I still haven't watched the episode, but in the manga, in that moment (before Chihaya got there) Taichi was so depressed that he had stopped caring about the game, and in this state of mind he accidental entered the "zone". In this state he destroyed all his opponents (he trashed Retro by 18 cards!!!).
They do show him wondering once again "why am I here?" I must admit I don't really understand the psychological process that is supposed to be in play here. He plays better when he doesn't care? Have we been given the background to understand this process, and I just missed it? I found that scene quite puzzling myself.
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Old 2013-06-15, 12:22   Link #1293
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
He plays better when he doesn't care?
He plays better (way better) when he stays calm. At that moment, because he was depressed and beyond caring, he was extremity calm. Hence he was playing extremity well. He was playing like in auto-pilot, without fears and anxieties holding back his mind.
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Old 2013-06-15, 12:31   Link #1294
kitten320
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I feel like an ass but I probably would go to watch Shinobu vs Arata match instead for simple reasons that who knows when else you would get to see something like this. Unless someone was recording it.

Taichi's match went a bit too fast. While I'm happy that they increased pacing, I believe they should have cut down on some of the team matches episodes and expended this one a bit.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:17   Link #1295
Haak
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
They do show him wondering once again "why am I here?" I must admit I don't really understand the psychological process that is supposed to be in play here. He plays better when he doesn't care? Have we been given the background to understand this process, and I just missed it? I found that scene quite puzzling myself.
To me it felt like a switched had been turned on and he suddenly realised he's a true Class A player. I felt it when he first asked Retro why he was there in the previous episode. It felt like he was almost confused about this situation. As if he was asking "why was this so hard?". It was kinda showing that he no longer doubts himself. He's no longer overthinking his faults.
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Old 2013-06-15, 13:29   Link #1296
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It was kinda showing that he no longer doubts himself. He's no longer overthinking his faults.
No the anime doesn't make it clear but it's not that he wasn't doubting himself anymore. Rather he was depressed for being such a loser that he still can't be in Class A with Chihaya and Arata.

Basically, although he's calm and destroying all his opponents, he got in that state due to the negative aspects of his personality (his lack of confidence and self-defeating attitude).

It might seem weird, but he was playing really well because he was in what you could call "extreme NTR mode".
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2013-06-15 at 15:43.
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:06   Link #1297
Haak
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I prefer my version...
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Old 2013-06-15, 14:55   Link #1298
CptChaos
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Seriously. If Arata wins against Shinobu I'll bite my table.
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Old 2013-06-15, 17:14   Link #1299
frodonk
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Arata will win. He knows what he was doing.

hmm..

Quote:
It was to show off the benefits of Karuta for memorization. Arata's memory is good because he's a karuta player. But compared to other karuta players? We don't know, but no one's made any mention of it.
somebody mentioned that arata's the least talented of the 3, and his practice in memorizing cards might have been a factor, but arata definitely has above normal/good memory, maybe not the same level as taichi. being able to memorize 100 different poems because you've been exposed to it for so long doesn't mean you're instantly better at memorizing 200 newpaper delivery sites that you've just seen 5 mins or so ago.

Quote:
My point is, he wasn't dominating Nishida with his memory. He was dominating him with his arm technique.
very true, just goes to show what expert level training/practice can do and the difference it makes between 2 people who started playing the game at the same age and at the same level.

Quote:
So? At this rate, everyone is similar because everyone has experience playing Karuta and/or being trained by someone.

My point is that you haven't shown any similarity between Arata and Shinobu, despite your claims. Shinobu's skill is almost 100% natural talent. She trained by herself, she got experience by herself, she plays the way she wants to play.

Arata's skill is cultivated. It is the way it is because his grandfather made it that way.
everyone got talent for it, and everyone have the experience or training for the game, but not in the same degree.

as for them not similar, they are both players who devoted much of their time to karuta and were isolated from other people (or even other players of the same age) since they were considered to be geniuses. I'll leave it at that. Shinobu and Arata's exchange before the start of the match explained my point more clearly than what I can say about the matter.

Quote:
That's true of every experience player. Heck, it's true of Kana.
boobie-chan is different. she views the cards as poems, not as 1, 2 or multi syllable cards. though she had to unlearn that to become a class A player and take the reader exam.

Quote:
Exactly. Rion is more affected than normal. The meijin and Chihaya aren't.
she definitely was affected this episode.
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Old 2013-06-15, 19:39   Link #1300
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I was also disappointed by that. Their priorities seem a little odd. They spent ages on minor matches while a major match like this one is over in a instant. Is that the fault of the anime or the manga though?
Since most of this season is in the vast black hole of untranslated manga, I couldn't tell you even if I wanted to check. I know there are a couple of extended bits from Taichi's match with Rion that were left out of the anime.

Don't forget there was also a recap ep, in addition to all that time wasted on trivialities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I prefer my version...
It doesn't work when you have to filter everything through a "TAICHI BAD" lens, though.

I see the "Why am I here?" thing this way. The reason Taichi was playing so well is, quite simply, that he's his own worst enemy - both in Karuta in life - and when he stops thinking too hard, he's better off. I think he finally reached a point where he realized how stupid he'd been for tripping himself up so often when - as he proved by going undefeated in every team match - he's clearly better than much of the Class A field.

So, instead of doubting himself and analyzing his own deficiencies, he simply got pissed off - largely at himself - and simplified the game. Anger can be a powerful motivator for an athlete (why coaches are so upset when their players give the team "blackboard material" by dissing them in the press, for example) and for Taichi, it has the added benefit of stripping away layers of his own complicated emotions and simplifying his state of mind. "Screw this. I'm better than this. I'm embarrassed to be here when the others are upstairs."

It was only when Chihaya entered the room - and thank goodness she did, as it was the right thing to do both in the narrative and personal sense - that things got complicated again, and temporarily threw Taichi off. But he again showed that he's grown as a character, as Chihaya has. Instead of allowing himself to go into a downward spiral he righted himself, took a deep breath, and re-focused on his Karuta strengths - his analysis and memorization, which are better than even any of his Class A rivals. They aren't pretty or flashy or stylish, but Karuta-wise Taichi is a grinder - he just gets it done. And when he plays true to himself, he's a beast. He beat Retro by 18 cards, and Rion - despite his hiccup - by a wider margin than Chihaya had.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2013-06-15 at 19:51.
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