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Old 2013-06-29, 10:47   Link #1441
frodonk
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If you go back and watch the first episode of season 1 again, he did really enjoy himself, simply because he was finally able to play karuta with someone in Tokyo.
hmm, add to that the fact that chihaya couldn't get why arata could smile like that in a match and it makes sense that he really is genuinely happy whenever he's in that state of mind.
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Old 2013-06-29, 10:50   Link #1442
karice67
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Originally Posted by Bern-san View Post
About Kana not taking into account Chihaya's feeling for Arata (whatever they are those feelings), it's not like she's a bad friend. At the end of the day if Chihaya were to chose him over Taichi I don't think she would oppose to it but she has seen how much Taichi loves Chihaya that she can't help but root for him. She wants Taichi to take the chances while he has time, otherwise he would regret it.
She already did that though, outside the hospital. Scheming to get the two of them together, on the other hand, is going a little to far in my book.


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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
His mother's comment about how much she fears being stuck just with his father at home had me rolling on the floor despite being as cruel as it was. I guess the empty-nest problem happens in Japan just as much as here.
I really LOL'd the very first time I read it too
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Old 2013-06-29, 10:56   Link #1443
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^I have to agree that Kana with the camp thing went a bit far but I guess she just wanted to force Taichi to do it already. I can't really see a development in the romantic department right now, Chihaya is too focused on karuta after watching Arata so I fear it could bring more harm than good.
Sometimes I even wonder if we are going to see romance with Chihaya honestly.
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Old 2013-06-29, 11:05   Link #1444
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What bothered me the most is that the training camp would have been excellent experience for all club members, instead due to Kana's plotting only Taichi and Chihaya ended up there. Admittedly this behaviour is consistent with the other Misuzawa club members in the final episodes (ignoring Tsutomu, forgetting about Tsubaka, watching Arata/Shinobu final rather rooting for club mates).
I'm tempted to call it 'the breaking of the fellowship', in spirit at least, but that sounds like an exaggeration.
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
In any case, Kanade was such a fine and wonderful friend to Taichi in this episode that the thought even came to me to start shipping them, lol.
For a millisecond I had the same thought but then I saw the height difference and it would come in the way of my OTP.
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Old 2013-06-29, 11:32   Link #1445
Bern-san
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I think that Kana and Tsutomu would make a cute couple.

It's sad that Tsukuba was reduced to being a joke character, his background about playing other type of karuta was interesting to me.

Other things I forgot to mention:
- Sakurawa-sensei turned out to be a good character at the end of the season, I would love to see her playing since it was mentioned that she was a player before.
- Sumire started a character who I disliked but in the end she reflected my emotions during the matches with her comments I think she has it more difficult than Taichi in terms of romance since Taichi is too fixated on Chihaya to love another person
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Old 2013-06-29, 11:37   Link #1446
karice67
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I forgot something too...

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I think Chihaya's poems expressed her true feelings better and are more relevant than this one line. Kana, who is well-versed in poetry, read them and she KNEW. The only reason Chihaya is "confused" is that she's completely clueless when it comes to romance. However, as Kana said, this won't last forever. That's why she urged Taichi to try harder. If he doesn't take action, he will lose.
Excellent points. Where Chihaya goes from here will be interesting to watch - will she start figuring it all out? How she feels about Arata, how she feels about Taichi, how the two boys feel about her...?

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Originally Posted by Bern-san View Post
I don't see the problem with the use of "love" during that phrase Chihaya said. It was never meant to be interpreted romantically, the series has stated multiple times that Chihaya is oblivious about that stuff and considering that to her Arata is her karuta god...
Wrt the bolder part: oh, but was it really not? That is the question, isn't it?
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Last edited by karice67; 2013-06-29 at 11:51.
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Old 2013-06-29, 11:48   Link #1447
Bern-san
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Wrt the bolder part: oh, but was it really not? That is the question, isn't it?
It could be romantic in Chihaya's subconscious, but right now I don't think Chihaya herself considers that statement romantic. Maybe in the future it is, who knows
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Old 2013-06-29, 16:38   Link #1448
thundrakkon
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I'm really disappointed in Kana this episode. Yes, she was being a friend to Taichi, but she was not to everyone else. Most oblivious of all is her concern for Chihaya. Chihaya's goals and desires going to the camp was for karuta and to get better. Kana used this for her romance plotting scheme. Not only that, she has wasted a chance for her other team members to get better. With all the talk about team play this season, this was absolutely selfish and anti-team. In addition, she not only ignored Chihaya's feelings, but she ignored Sumire's as well.

Giving advice to Taichi was fine; however, plotting and stunting the growth of everyone else was uncalled for. Now, Taichi's main goal before going into this camp is not to get better in karuta, but he is now distracted into trying to put a move on Chihaya, not to mention the distraction it may cause Chihaya.
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Old 2013-06-29, 17:12   Link #1449
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Now, Taichi's main goal before going into this camp is not to get better in karuta, but he is now distracted into trying to put a move on Chihaya, not to mention the distraction it may cause Chihaya.
Aren't you jumping to conclusions here? We don't know how much Taichi's been influenced by what Kana said. He has an stated goal at the moment, to beat Chihaya, and I don't think he'll stray from that goal any time soon. Besides, I kinda get the feelings Taichi knows Chihaya will never really look at him until he beats her in Karuta. So that's double the reason for him to focus on that goal without distractions.


On the subject of Kana prioritizing Taichi's feelings. Well, the truth is that Taichi's the most relatable character. That's why a majority of the audience side with him. And Kana, who can tell what's happening between Taichi and Chihaya (and Arata), can't help but feel the same thing the audience feel for him.
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Old 2013-06-29, 18:20   Link #1450
thundrakkon
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Aren't you jumping to conclusions here? We don't know how much Taichi's been influenced by what Kana said. He has an stated goal at the moment, to beat Chihaya, and I don't think he'll stray from that goal any time soon. Besides, I kinda get the feelings Taichi knows Chihaya will never really look at him until he beats her in Karuta. So that's double the reason for him to focus on that goal without distractions.
That is why I stated that his was his pre-camp mentality. The scene even shows Taichi thinking about the flashback with Kana telling him she will "take care of" the first years. When camp arrives, things could change. I do have a lot of faith in the coach being very helpful in karuta.

Of course, you do have manga knowledge, so you know how things will end up. I can only base things off of what I see in the anime.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
On the subject of Kana prioritizing Taichi's feelings. Well, the truth is that Taichi's the most relatable character. That's why a majority of the audience side with him. And Kana, who can tell what's happening between Taichi and Chihaya (and Arata), can't help but feel the same thing the audience feel for him.
So in other words, Kana is now a Taichi shipper, and she gets a pass because of it? So all that talk about how Chihaya, if she chose to go watch Arata and Shinobu instead of Taichi in the finals, being against teamwork and a is bad reflection on Chihaya, but Kana is fine if she plots against her teammates? Nah, if Chihaya does not get a pass, then Kana should also not get a pass.

As for Taichi being relatable, that is true for Taichi fans. As for myself, I do not find him very relatable and question a lot of his actions and thoughts. His intentions have never been pure, yet.
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Old 2013-06-29, 18:35   Link #1451
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Of course, you do have manga knowledge, so you know how things will end up. I can only base things off of what I see in the anime.
I'm not hinting spoiler or anything. I do read the manga but it's not much ahead from the anime at this point. What I said is just my opinion. Think about it, we know the only way to make an lasting impression on Chihaya is through karuta. Heck, even Shinobu has made a stronger impression on Chihaya than Taichi. I think we all can agree on this. That's why I think Taichi will focus on his goal of getting stronger and beating Chihaya. If he can accomplish that, he will not only get closer to become the kind of man he wants to be, but also closer to Chihaya's heart. In that sense, using this training camp to actually train is kinda in line with what Kana wanted him to do, even if she probably didn't have that approach in mind. lol

Anyway, at the very least you have to agree that what I'm saying makes sense, right?

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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
So in other words, Kana is now a Taichi shipper, and she gets a pass because of it?
A pass on what? I'm not making a value judgment on what she did. I'm just trying to explain why she did it.

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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
As for Taichi being relatable, that is true for Taichi fans.
Which is the majority of the audience...
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2013-06-29 at 19:27.
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Old 2013-06-29, 19:39   Link #1452
karice67
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
A pass on what? I'm not making a value judgment on what she did. I'm just trying to explain why she did it.
Perhaps you aren't directly. But in trying to explain why she did what she did, and thus implying that it was ok, a moral judgement is indirectly being made.

Besides that, thundrakkon was making a comment about how Kana seems to have gotten a pass from quite a few people in this thread so far, especially when we consider the discussion over Chihaya's dilemma during the high school competition.

It's not a comparison I thought to make when I first read this development in the manga, but I think it's a valid point.

That said, I'd leave Taichi alone until we see what he does. The ova in September may cover it, after all...
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Old 2013-06-29, 19:42   Link #1453
thundrakkon
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'm not hinting spoiler or anything. I do read the manga but it's not much ahead from the anime at this point. What I said is just my opinion. Think about it, we know the only way to make an lasting impression on Chihaya is through karuta. Heck, even Shinobu has made a stronger impression on Chihaya than Taichi. I think we all can agree on this. That's why I think Taichi will focus on his goal of getting stronger and beating Chihaya. If he can accomplish that, he will not only get closer to become the kind of man he wants to be, but also closer to Chihaya's heart. In that sense, using this training camp to actually train is kinda in line with what Kana wanted him to do, even if she probably didn't have that approach in mind. lol

Anyway, at the very least you have to agree that what I'm saying makes sense, right?
Yes, your points make sense. Taichi does need to improve on his karuta if he wants Chihaya to pay more attention on him (although, she has paid a lot of attention to the tiny details that Taichi did not notice).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
A pass on what? I'm not making a value judgment on what she did. I'm just trying to explain why she did it.
But an explanation being that certain amounts of fans are Taichi shippers is not a very strong argument for Kana in story. It's like saying, the author wanted it that way. If an author does something that does not make sense, the author is going to get criticized for it. The same should happen to Kana.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Which is the majority of the audience...
I don't have any statistics to go by, so I can't make a claim one way or the other. The only thing I saw earlier in the thread is a character poll, which had Chihaya at #1 and way far ahead of every other character. In that case, wouldn't the majority of the audience be Chihaya fans instead of Taichi fans? In which case, Kana should have done something in favor of Chihaya and not any one male interest?
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Old 2013-06-29, 20:12   Link #1454
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Kana loves Chihaya and she loves Taichi. She knows Taichi loves Chihaya romantically, and she knows Chihaya is unaware of it. So she gets criticized for trying to get him to express his feelings before it's too late for him to do so? That's just nonsensical to me. She's being a good friend, plain and simple.
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Old 2013-06-29, 20:12   Link #1455
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
But an explanation being that certain amounts of fans are Taichi shippers is not a very strong argument for Kana in story.
Who said anything about shippers? I'm talking about Taichi's character being relatable. His character's like that due of his internal struggle. People naturally identify and empathize with this. That's why the central piece of any dramatic work is conflict. I think we all can agree that Taichi's the most conflicted character in the series, and that makes him highly relatable, both for the audience and also for the other characters. Kana, as a person who knows of his inner turmoil, must feel strongly compelled to help him, specially seeing how hard he works to improve himself.

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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
It's like saying, the author wanted it that way. If an author does something that does not make sense, the author is going to get criticized for it. The same should happen to Kana.
But what Kana did made sense in the context of the series. If you think she did something wrong, more power to you. Regardless, what she did is perfectly consistent with her character. Kana is a very sensitive person, and as such it makes perfect sense for her to empathize and want to help the person who struggles the most among her friends. Too bad for the others, but she can't help everyone, can she?
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Old 2013-06-29, 20:25   Link #1456
karice67
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Kana loves Chihaya and she loves Taichi. She knows Taichi loves Chihaya romantically, and she knows Chihaya is unaware of it. So she gets criticized for trying to get him to express his feelings before it's too late for him to do so? That's just nonsensical to me. She's being a good friend, plain and simple.
A good friend to Taichi. But if her aim in setting up the camp is for them to get together, not so much so to Chihaya, so it seems...

That said, it's not explicitly said what Kana hopes would happen at the camp. I guess we'll have to wait to see if the show tells us what her intent was.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But what Kana did made sense in the context of the series. If you think she did something wrong, more power to you. Regardless, what she did is perfectly consistent with her character. Kana is a very sensitive person, and as such it makes perfect sense for her to empathize and want to help the person who struggles the most among her friends. Too bad for the others, but she can't help everyone, can she?
It makes sense, yes. But that's not the point. And I personally don't think her being so forceful about pushing them together is "perfectly consistent" with her character, because she's been shown to have been quietly watching over all of them for so long.
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Old 2013-06-29, 20:33   Link #1457
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It makes sense, yes. But that's not the point.
Thundrakkon kinda suggested that what she did didn't make sense and I was replying to that.

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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
And I personally don't think her being so forceful about pushing them together is "perfectly consistent" with her character, because she's been shown to have been quietly watching over all of them for so long.
But now she's realizing that Taichi may not have much time and that's probably why she acted more forcefully this time. All things considering, I still think it's perfectly in character for her to do this.
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Old 2013-06-29, 20:51   Link #1458
thundrakkon
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Perhaps you aren't directly. But in trying to explain why she did what she did, and thus implying that it was ok, a moral judgement is indirectly being made.

Besides that, thundrakkon was making a comment about how Kana seems to have gotten a pass from quite a few people in this thread so far, especially when we consider the discussion over Chihaya's dilemma during the high school competition.

It's not a comparison I thought to make when I first read this development in the manga, but I think it's a valid point.
Thanks, karice67. You explain things so much better than me.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
So she gets criticized for trying to get him to express his feelings before it's too late for him to do so? That's just nonsensical to me. She's being a good friend, plain and simple.
The argument has not been weather Kana was being a good friend or not. She was a good friend to Taichi only. The argument against her this whole time has been her plot for the camp for Taichi and Chihaya to be together, while keeping all the other members away. Thus, it takes a possible opportunity to improve for her other team members, and she is not being a team player because of it, which is out of character for her.

The purpose of the camp is to improve player's karuta ability, and she denied herself and other members this opportunity all in the name plotting romance.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Who said anything about shippers?
From this quote below, it seems to point to Kana doing the shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
On the subject of Kana prioritizing Taichi's feelings. Well, the truth is that Taichi's the most relatable character. That's why a majority of the audience side with him. And Kana, who can tell what's happening between Taichi and Chihaya (and Arata), can't help but feel the same thing the audience feel for him.
I do understand your point of trying to put Taichi in a sympathetic light and trying to say that he is relatable to Kana, but what she is doing right now is being a busy body and a match maker. Really, if she set it up as a shopping trip or even an amusement park to only ditch them to go together, everything will be fine. The fact that she used a karuta camp and denied all her team members the opportunity are the problems.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Too bad for the others, but she can't help everyone, can she?
It is not that she is not helping the others, she is actually preventing them from an opportunity to improve in karuta, the theme of the series.
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Old 2013-06-29, 21:04   Link #1459
bastek66
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
So in other words, Kana is now a Taichi shipper
"Now" pffff
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Old 2013-06-29, 21:04   Link #1460
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
I do understand your point of trying to put Taichi in a sympathetic light
I'm not trying to do anything like that. Being relatable and sympathetic is a natural result of Taichi's conflicting nature. This isn't my idea here; we're talking about one the core premises on writing drama.

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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
The fact that she used a karuta camp and denied all her team members the opportunity are the problems.
I get that you got a problem with this, but the fact that she acted on her feelings instead of making the most rational decision makes Kana more human, more real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
she is actually preventing them from an opportunity to improve in karuta, the theme of the series.
Again, choosing to help a friend with his romantic problems at the cost of preventing the others from going to the camp just makes her more real. I think it's a good thing the author lets the characters come alive this way. Yes, it may be a little contradicting considering the themes of the season, but if every character acts solely for the sake of these themes, they would end up being more plot devices than actual characters. As long as the characterization is kept consistent, and it's perfectly consistent in this case, there's nothing wrong with this.
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