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Old 2013-03-31, 19:07   Link #1901
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I repeat myself, whitout quoting the manga tell us in one paragraph what is "done wrong".
The trajectory of Alibaba's character doesn't seem to match with how he was presented during the first half. He was steadfast, clear of purpose, and probably the last person you'd expect to collapse ideologically on himself, as shown the previous episode. Sure, he was a goof, but he was a goof who stuck to his beliefs -- see how he was willing to fight his friend to end the bloody uprising that was causing a heck of unneeded death.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:15   Link #1902
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
The trajectory of Alibaba's character doesn't seem to match with how he was presented during the first half. He was steadfast, clear of purpose, and probably the last person you'd expect to collapse ideologically on himself, as shown the previous episode. Sure, he was a goof, but he was a goof who stuck to his beliefs -- see how he was willing to fight his friend to end the bloody uprising that was causing a heck of unneeded death.
He did not collapsed ideologically, he went thru a process where he started to empathize with the pleas of his opponents. You might think, "But that behavior is not logical", of course it is not! Empathy represses analytic thought, and vice versa. So I can easily see someone do IRL what Alibaba did in the anime, is such course of action less than perfect? Of course, but human beings seldom choose all the time the best options in life.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:18   Link #1903
Myssa Rei
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The problem is, we know this was something the staff cooked up because they thought that Alibaba was "too mature". They even said so! So it was a late-production change... for what? Added drama? And because they didn't want to shift to Hakuryuu as a viewpoint character?

I really hate to bring what happened in the manga into this, but just for comparison sake:

Spoiler for Comparison:
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:29   Link #1904
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
The problem is, we know this was something the staff cooked up because they thought that Alibaba was "too mature". They even said so! So it was a late-production change... for what? Added drama? And because they didn't want to shift to Hakuryuu as a viewpoint character?

I really hate to bring what happened in the manga into this, but just for comparison sake:

Spoiler for Comparison:
See, you need to make a comparison to the manga to pinpoint what "is wrong", otherwise you are left empty handed of any reasons you did not liked it.

BTW, "the staff made changes" is not equal to "anime is ruined", i.e. the Rozen Maiden anime staff made a ton of changes over the manga and it was way more enjoyable.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:31   Link #1905
Dark Faith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I saw the same Magi as you and saw no pacing issues, how can you know a story is too fast or too slow unless you compare it with the original or another adaption? is like guessing the speed of the car with your eyes closed.
You can tell when certain scenes are being dragged out without knowledge of the source material. You can also "feel" that certain subjects have been touched too lightly when they deserve more explanation.

I haven't read the manga, so I don't feel that Magi, in general, has major pacing issues, though there's been episodes where I felt that things were dragged out just so it could end at a cliffhanger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Again, those were manga readers or anime readers that read the manga to see what the hoopla was about.
Haven't read the manga and I feel that Alibaba's character is off somehow. Like he's learning nothing from everything that's happened to him. In fact, he only seems to be getting worse. He was probably the last person, with the exception of Alladin, who I'd expect to fall into depravity...but then there he went to become a little emo princess because someone had a sad/unfair past and died in front of him.

Anyhow, I'll probably watch season 2, because I like the characters (well... with one notable exception now) and the setting, while clinging to a faint hope that they'll somehow undo the mess that they've created.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:37   Link #1906
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^ Also, go to the One Piece anime thread...you'll see plenty of people that haven't checked the manga yet that thread is plagued with people complaining about pacing issues.

Ogon's stuck on a "Every negative opinion about the anime is a manga fanboy making comparisons" binge and while this does happen, it's clearly now what's happening here. Hey, if you liked how the anime developed then fine, good for you, but don't instantly assume others don't like something just because they are manga fanboys.

Well either that or he's just trolling.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:37   Link #1907
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Faith View Post
...but then there he went to become a little emo princess because someone had a sad/unfair past and died in front of him.
Woah, care to fill us in how many people have died before your eyes after telling you the story of their cursed past? Because you seem to feel that kind of thing is "just a drop in the bucket".

@Randrak42 I am not a fan of one piece and even less so of fanboys, so what kind of logic suggests I should go there? Fanboys will be fanboys, the more commercial the product the more rabid they wil be. I expect better of Magi.

If I am stuck then please give arguments, finger pointing has never been a valid argument.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:38   Link #1908
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
See, you need to make a comparison to the manga to pinpoint what "is wrong", otherwise you are left empty handed of any reasons you did not liked it.
No, I made it perfectly clear that I disliked it because of the 180-degree turn they had Alibaba's character undergo from how he was from for most of the series. This was before I gave the manga comparison.

Sorry, but this is turning into a case where we'll have to agree to disagree. You seem to like what's happening, many of us don't. Let's leave it at that.

If this escalates to a proxy "Me" versus "You're all sour grapes!" exchange, I will not hesitate to hit the report button.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:53   Link #1909
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I saw the same Magi as you and saw no pacing issues, how can you know a story is too fast or too slow unless you compare it with the original or another adaption? is like guessing the speed of the car with your eyes closed.
But from the start I have seen tons of post of rabid fans that have made many people like yourself go check the original material and surprise, surprise, after doing a comparison you saw there was more material in the original. Sometimes it is the opposite. But I am fed up about them saying it is broken just because it is different from the source material, that is fanboyism.

BTW, I have seen the Magi manga, but only the latest chapters so my anime enjoyment is not ruined, it is a rule of the thumb, like not eating sweets before dinner.
It's really not all that difficult. There are obvious signs like lack of transitioning, or poorly developed character or plot developments because the story keeps speeding along. I remember the first episode when our characters got to Balibadd is particularly awful in this department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Happens all the time, sometimes it can ruin the adaption, sometimes it can enhance it, but here it just makes it different.
Different can mean bad. Alibaba's characterization in the latest arc is little different from your standard whiny shonen protagonist. It should be understandable why this sort of characterization is far less interesting than the one presented in the manga, which features a more mature and at peace Alibaba. A character who actually learned and developed naturally and properly after the events of Balibadd. This sort of backpedaling development is a complete disservice to everything that has built him up. Furthermore, he's supposed to be a King's candidate, and clearly if he cannot mature, then there's no reason to believe he really is qualified whatsoever. We can't root for him because in the end, he gives us little reason to be confident judging from this latest arc.
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Old 2013-03-31, 20:16   Link #1910
Guardian Enzo
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Based on what I've read of the manga (which is only part of what the anime has covered and nothing after) I think it would be fair to say that an element of "dumb it down" exists here. Part of that is obvious, considering the writer - stupid is as stupid does. But there seems to have been a conscious element of "standardizing" a non-standard shounen manga for anime cliche - make sure it has a teen male lead, and make sure he's a classic Kaji Yuuki whiny doofus.

What interests me now is how that will impact things, going forward. I don't think there's any question that one of A-1's deliberate choices (though judging by a stroll through Akiba or ACE the marketing department didn't get the message) is "Alibaba is now the main character". I think someone made the argument that an anime with a child (or someone who appears as one) as the MC wouldn't push the right buttons to be a commercial success. From what I know of the next major arc, it seems as if it would be impossible to continue to follow that directive. Is it possible A-1 will veer from the manga and go with a completely new storyline so they can continue to push Alibaba at the lead?
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Old 2013-03-31, 20:25   Link #1911
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo
Part of that is obvious, considering the writer - stupid is as stupid does.
Haha, ouch. ^^;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo
I think someone made the argument that an anime with a child (or someone who appears as one) as the MC wouldn't push the right buttons to be a commercial success.
Did someone from the A-1 staff say that? That's silly. There's this little manga called 'Dragon Ball' whose main protagonist was a child for about the first four years of its serialization.
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Old 2013-03-31, 20:30   Link #1912
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Haha, ouch. ^^;



Did someone from the A-1 staff say that? That's silly. There's this little manga called 'Dragon Ball' whose main protagonist was a child for about the first four years of its serialization.
I don't think anyone has officially made that statement - that's why I said "I think". But the director did comment about how they wanted to make Alibaba's character more like a traditional anime MC.

More importantly, what other reason would they have for dramatically shifting the focus of the series away from Aladdin and onto Alibaba, if not that? For me it meets the Occam's Razor test, but it's strictly my best guess.
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Old 2013-03-31, 20:33   Link #1913
Dr. Casey
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I don't think anyone has officially made that statement - that's why I said "I think".
Ah, gotcha. Hope I didn't come across as rude then, as the snark was meant for the hypothetical A-1 guy who said that.



I like this A1 better than the anime company A-1.
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Old 2013-03-31, 20:40   Link #1914
Dark Faith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Woah, care to fill us in how many people have died before your eyes after telling you the story of their cursed past? Because you seem to feel that kind of thing is "just a drop in the bucket".
If he was going to "lose it" and flip to the enemy side, then Balbadd and Kassim were his prime chance to do so.
His dear friend turned into a Dark Djinn in front of him, blamed him for everything and then DIED.
Alibaba grieved.

Now some person he's just met dies in front of him and just happens to have a sad background, yet that's enough to push him over the edge and turn him into the enemy side?
Am I really supposed to be OK with that?

Was Balbadd pointless in terms of character development?
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Old 2013-03-31, 20:45   Link #1915
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Ah, gotcha. Hope I didn't come across as rude then, as the snark was meant for the hypothetical A-1 guy who said that.



I like this A1 better than the anime company A-1.
Nah, I wasn't offended, just wanted to clarify.

It's odd, because in SSY and Magi you seem to have a perfect abject lesson in the right and wrong ways to do an anime adaptation from A-1, and they even aired over the same two seasons. It just goes to show that the people involved are a more important factor than the studio in itself. The studio's role is to provide the people, and some obviously do a better job consistently than others in doing that. But despite not having a huge budget the creative team at SSY did a brilliant job, and despite starting out with a decent budget Magi was something of a clusterfuck.
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Old 2013-03-31, 21:25   Link #1916
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Different can mean bad. Alibaba's characterization in the latest arc is little different from your standard whiny shonen protagonist. It should be understandable why this sort of characterization is far less interesting than the one presented in the manga, which features a more mature and at peace Alibaba.
I would say rather the opposite, perfect characters are always boring, no matter the medium. Since they are already perfect, there is no room for them to learn and grow. If he were an adult like Sinbad it would be argued that he had already matured after the many trials of his adolescence, but Alibaba is still a kid so it makes sense he is a diamond in the rough, I remember someone even said that in the anime they downplayed how disappointed (as a king candidate) Amon was when he first saw Alibaba.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Faith View Post
If he was going to "lose it" and flip to the enemy side, then Balbadd and Kassim were his prime chance to do so.
His dear friend turned into a Dark Djinn in front of him, blamed him for everything and then DIED.
Alibaba grieved.

Now some person he's just met dies in front of him and just happens to have a sad background, yet that's enough to push him over the edge and turn him into the enemy side?
Am I really supposed to be OK with that?

Was Balbadd pointless in terms of character development?
This last arc was played on the sentimental level, not on the reasoning level. It is not that he did not learned anything from the Balbad affair, the thing with the princess just added to the grief he had acumulated from Kassim's death and he snapped, nothing really surprising, just another case of PTSD. Would he allow himself in the future to fall this low? I doubt so, once you have sunken into depravity and risen above it you mature and stop letting your emotions get the better of you.
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Old 2013-03-31, 21:36   Link #1917
MAX_COLA_POWER!
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Ah, gotcha. Hope I didn't come across as rude then, as the snark was meant for the hypothetical A-1 guy who said that.



I like this A1 better than the anime company A-1.
Yeah, it's that important.
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Old 2013-03-31, 21:52   Link #1918
AkumaPrincess
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Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I saw the same Magi as you and saw no pacing issues, how can you know a story is too fast or too slow unless you compare it with the original or another adaption? is like guessing the speed of the car with your eyes closed.
But from the start I have seen tons of post of rabid fans that have made many people like yourself go check the original material and surprise, surprise, after doing a comparison you saw there was more material in the original. Sometimes it is the opposite. But I am fed up about them saying it is broken just because it is different from the source material, that is fanboyism.
I'm watching Magi, with no manga influence and Alibaba's character annoys me. I enjoyed him in the Dungeon Arc. He was a little angsty in the Balbadd arc, but in Zargan arc, he's taken so many steps back that it's ridiculous. We saw that he has a righteous sense of judgement, shown in the Dungeon and Balbadd, but now he's fallen? It doesn't make any sense at all.

I feel the pacing is good in some episodes, but dropped in Zagan. Hell, the Zagan arc is awful compared to the rest of the series. The animation is lower in quality, it's choppy with no Prince Zuk... err Hakuryuu development, and the plot seems to be written episode by episode, instead of flowing.

I'll stay with Magi because I try not to drop animes ever, and the next arc looks interesting, but they've got a lot that they need to improve upon.
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Old 2013-04-01, 15:06   Link #1919
chaos_animagic
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Quote:
Maoyuu Maou Yuusha is an equally terrible adaption
lawl... time skip (see maoyuu's thread)


As for Magi's anime...
I did say the only part I hated was they butchering certain characters (especially as a manga reader that knows the original character before they got 180 degree changed)

+ I did state I am not dropping the series but only skimming the anime instead of watching it like normal (IE: skipping 3~5 sec using KMplayer for fast watching)

Quote:
I'm watching Magi, with no manga influence and Alibaba's character annoys me.
If so... you should read the manga, you'll LOVE Alibaba in there, possibly on par with Mor.

Alibaba in Manga is basically the opposite of what you've seen him in Anime. (except for the first arc - which was around the same before Alibaba turn awesome in the manga)
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Old 2013-04-02, 13:38   Link #1920
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just watch the last episode, it was ok for the ending, but they make Alibaba to weak.
the only thing wrong about this season was how they change Alibaba, the rest was ok no good, no bad either.
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