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Old 2012-06-18, 15:25   Link #41
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Well you included Fate/Zero so I'm going to mention some split 2 cour shows as well as some others you didn't mention

Space brothers
Moretsu pirates
Bakuman
Rinne no Lagrange
Jormungand
Kimi to Boku
Aera no Kishi
Ginga e kickoff
Mawaru Penguindrum
Sengoku collection
Kaiji 2
Nichinjou
Accel World
Sword art online
Last Exile sequel

But as relentlessflame mentionned the "long time" probably refers to around 2007
Westlo did mention the last 18 months. Some of them in your list aren't exactly animes that have aired it's 2nd split cour yet. I included horizon because that one is going to air in a few weeks, eventhough i probably shouldn't have included it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think that was the point of the original statement; it's in comparison to even more recent times. 2007 was still on the tail end of the anime boom, and that's what people mean when they say that there are less two-cour shows these days. It's only now that it seems to be starting to rebound.

(And incidentally, from your list, Da Capo II was split-cour.)
2008 still had plenty of 2 cour series though. I probably need to check when it started to decline.

Da capo 2 was a split cour but still technically a 2 cour serie

edit: 2008 had atleast 26 anime series that had either 2 cours (not counting the split cour series from 2007 like clannad) . That's atleast just as high or higher than 2007. Time to check 2009 and 2010

another edit: 2009 had atleast 22 2-cour series and atleast 2 split cour series. (not counting the split cour series from the previous year)

late edit : the actual decline started in 2010 with atleast 14 2-cour series and atleast 3 split cour series.

@westlo: after looking through wikipedia and checking every anime if it had atleast 2 cours for the past 5 years, i disagree with you that the last 18 months started was a good time for split and 2 cour shows. Because in 2011 there also weren't that many of those shows and most of them kept it safe with 1 cour shows.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-06-18 at 16:11.
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Old 2012-06-18, 15:30   Link #42
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
And you ignore me mentioning Code Geass, RahXephon and Wolf's Rain for what reason? Or are you not reading my posts even though you're whining about me not doing the same for yours? lol.
Please no! Your logic is overwhelming and I must cry because clearly your argument is the clear truth.

I ignored it because that wasn't part of your reply to me. It's also irrelevant to my point. As for whining, nope. I just point out fallacies when I see them, and I felt you were simply not addressing my points properly. You still aren't btw.

My point in case which you still don't properly address is

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because other shows do it worse or do it better doesn't affect whether Fate/Zero doing it is right or not.

Explain what you wrote above remotely logically refutes or corresponds to what you responded to. I'm sorry, it doesn't. Try again. I'll be waiting.

I have no problem with being labeled a fool. But here I don't get it.


Quote:
It's 3 months, get over it. I hope you don't follow Game of Thrones or the Wheel of time Novels.
Well, that's certainly a valid argument. A lot can happen in 3 months man! But I'm sorry, trivializing the other side's preferences isn't a valid argument bro. Just because you don't care doesn't mean someone has to.



I'm sorry for criticizing the best show of the year! (This is not sarcasm, I do think so...)

Quote:
A couple of sentences that dares to disagree with you equates to ranting? lmao, whatever man.
Hmm, I'd actually prefer that over this "argument" you've been tossing around. Maybe I should be sorry over this, k?

Anyhow, all you've been doing in this particular responses is just throwing out your own preferences. Apparently your opinion is different. Cool. But the way you're doing it is hardly any fun. So please try to be more productive.
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Old 2012-06-19, 01:25   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Do you prefer the Split Cour approach, as the break between cours can help build up more anticipation for the "second half" of the show? Or do you prefer the Traditional Two Cour approach because of how it can build up (and sustain) momentum over 24 or more consecutive weeks?
I like split cour for shows that could use, but don't need a second season to finish. The feeling is more like a visit from a friend and you don't really need to remember much about the previous cour to continue watching the new one.

On the other hand I like two cour because interrupting a really good story with a several month (or longer!) break really sucks. Yeah you can get back into it, and for people who marathon instead of watch weekly it's not really noticeable, but I personally don't like it. There's a lot of time investment in a two+ cour show, and the interruption means waiting even longer for the story to finish and it disrupts the immersion/flow of the narrative.

Some stories can be told in arcs and so split works fine, but other stories need volumes and are better told as one narrative flow.

In fact I'll push it farther. I wish anime companies would stop producing so much anime based on unfinished manga without bothering to create a good stopping point or non-asspull ending (yeah Claymore, I'm looking at you). It's not like the world lacks finished manga stories, and there are tons of cancelled/dropped stories that wouldn't be so bad to pick up and complete either. Many of them are quite popular in critical acclaim if not in sales. Yeah, I'm still waiting for my Record of a Fallen Vampire and Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer animes.
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Old 2012-06-19, 02:09   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
In fact I'll push it farther. I wish anime companies would stop producing so much anime based on unfinished manga without bothering to create a good stopping point or non-asspull ending (yeah Claymore, I'm looking at you). It's not like the world lacks finished manga stories, and there are tons of cancelled/dropped stories that wouldn't be so bad to pick up and complete either. Many of them are quite popular in critical acclaim if not in sales. Yeah, I'm still waiting for my Record of a Fallen Vampire and Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer animes.
This is exactly why I'm often cautious when picking up adaptations of unfinished manga. This trend is because anime that adapt from manga are usually viewed purely as an advertisement for the manga rather than a complete narrative of their own, which results in anime like Claymore and the such. I don't see why you can't advertise a finished manga, because it's not like the tankouban disappear from the shelves the moment a manga finishes, but the producers of anime seem to have a different idea.
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Old 2012-06-19, 02:16   Link #45
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post

In fact I'll push it farther. I wish anime companies would stop producing so much anime based on unfinished manga without bothering to create a good stopping point or non-asspull ending (yeah Claymore, I'm looking at you). It's not like the world lacks finished manga stories, and there are tons of cancelled/dropped stories that wouldn't be so bad to pick up and complete either. Many of them are quite popular in critical acclaim if not in sales. Yeah, I'm still waiting for my Record of a Fallen Vampire and Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer animes.
Most of the time those kind of series are at at their height of their popularity. Waiting till the original source has ended has many risks like for example if the original source starts to get less interesting to it's audience.
An anime adaptation is also beneficial for the original source, because the anime could attract the anime viewers for the original work (like Hyouka, K-on, Uchuu kyoudai, etc. )
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Old 2012-06-19, 19:52   Link #46
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I guess it depends on the series and the popularity and demand for an extension and continuation. I'll use IS and High School DxD as an example. They ended at 12 episode while there were over 3-4 volumes of material they could have covered for a 22-24 episode extension. Plus there have been high demand for a second season by fans, plus there have been rumors of a second season for those two. For now all we got were OAV's. One is a single episode continuation of where the anime left off ie. IS.

I think it comes down to series popularity, how it sells, and fan demand for how a series gets run by production time and value, but that's just me throwing stuff out there.
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Old 2012-06-19, 20:15   Link #47
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Of course I think anyone would like to see the product here and now, but does it truly affect a show's momentum? I don't think it should unless the gap is necessarily large or something, but if something is of great quality it will speak for itself anyways. We live in an impatient society these days where we expect instant gratification and aren't willing to wait at all, I think a little patience would go a long way in enjoying things.
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Old 2012-06-19, 21:48   Link #48
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I still think there's a difference between split cour and separate seasons, but apparently, some in this thread do not.

It's hard to have a real discussion over this when people aren't even talking about the same thing.
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Old 2012-06-19, 23:08   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
I still think there's a difference between split cour and separate seasons, but apparently, some in this thread do not.

It's hard to have a real discussion over this when people aren't even talking about the same thing.
There is a factual difference between a split-cour show and a show that had its 2nd season quickly after the first one.

Split cour are 2cour shows with a break in the middle, that is there primarily for production issues like not being on schedule and needing to release badly done episodes/recaps, and releasing some stress from the animators that constantly work on the show.

Shows with second seasons are shows that were produced as one cour and just one cour, and the producers, after seeing that they did well, arrange for a second season to de done.

Sure, maybe the end result is almost the same, but there are notable differences like 2cours of the same show being confirmed from the start, while with the former method, the show needs to sell well to have another cour.
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Old 2012-06-20, 01:32   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
I still think there's a difference between split cour and separate seasons, but apparently, some in this thread do not.
Well, there is a difference due to split cours being known "ahead of time". Whereas with separate seasons, there is not always the knowledge of another season yet to come.

The main impact of this is that split cour shows generally will avoid the problem of anime original endings (for the 1st cour's last episode) that disrupt the core narrative. I have yet to see a split cour anime that had anything like the Shana 2 to Shana 3 transition issues, shall we say.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:53   Link #51
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Split cour shows are a two-cour show whose first half comes out three (in most cases) months ahead. It's not that a second half is delayed. If you have the "delay" mindset, you might end up getting a thing wrong.

Anyway, I'll write a list of pros and cons of split cour shows.

Pros of split cour shows

1. You can deliver your two-cour shows as soon as possible, before customers' interest changes. In other words, you can deliver the first episode as many as three months earlier than those of standard two cour shows.
2. You can sell related merchandise for a longer term. Almost all anime goods go on sale one month after the anime starts to be aired, and disappear from the shops when once the anime is finished. Standard two cour shows, five months. Split cour shows, eight months. It's three month longer.
3. You can get another big advertisement chance. Second Season Announced!

Cons of split cour shows

1. There is a great risk that viewers lose interest in the show during the break.


As you see, whether it's split cour or not is a high-level decision. It has nothing to do with inferiors from a director to animators. If you ask me if the main goal of splitting cours is to resolve production issues and to improve the quality of a second half writing-wise and art-wise, I want to say "Hell no!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Probably worth mentioning that Clannad was also a "split-cour" show, just in a "two cours on, two cours off" format.
Apparently, no. According to Director Ishihara, he thought he might not be able to animate the whole of Clannad (including After Story), and that's why he inserted a shot from the last episode of After Story into the Clannad OP. When he was storyboarding the OP, he didn't get a green light to After Story. Can this be called a split cour show?
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Last edited by thirdlc; 2012-06-20 at 09:48. Reason: Yes, they were reversed. I knew something was wrong. I'm embarrassed.
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Old 2012-06-20, 07:29   Link #52
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I think you have your "pro" and "con" reversed, no?
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Old 2012-06-20, 08:28   Link #53
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I actually think there is less chance of fans losing interest with a split cour than a 2nd season.

With a split cour you can add to fan's excitement & anticipation that more is coming but with an unannounced 2nd season if you wait too long, fans might lose interest and move onto what is new & popular.
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Old 2012-06-20, 13:01   Link #54
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Doesn't the only Manga/LN/etc. that DOES get animated these days based off of 97% of the time incomplete/on-going stuff?

I was looking through my MAL & most of them were either running beside their manga/LN counterpart during their air time.

Many of them never got re-makes(Your sales have to be freaking huge to get one), Like:

Claymore
Gantz
Beelzebub
NEEDLESS
Soul Eater
Blue Exorcist
Dusk Maiden of Amnesia
The original FMA anime
The original Hellsing anime
The original Hunter x Hunter anime
The original Berserk anime

These animes could've been saved if they were Split-Cour in the first place. There are hundreds more everyone else could name, but these are the ones I got on my list right now. Also One Piece, Naruto, & some others wouldn't be as slow-paced/ have fillers if they were Split-Cour.

I love Split-Cour because we won't get a filler ending(More likely chance anyway). Highschool of The Dead(Why the re-cap episode though?), Gintama, & Black Lagoon did the smart thing & backed off until they could get more content.

Though doing Split-Cour for already completed content is petty dumb(Fate/Zero & Jormungand).
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Old 2012-06-20, 13:19   Link #55
hyl
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Originally Posted by The Butcher View Post
Doesn't the only Manga/LN/etc. that DOES get animated these days based off of 97% of the time incomplete/on-going stuff?

I was looking through my MAL & most of them were either running beside their manga/LN counterpart during their air time.

Many of them never got re-makes(Your sales have to be freaking huge to get one), Like:

Claymore
Gantz
Beelzebub
NEEDLESS
Soul Eater
Blue Exorcist
Dusk Maiden of Amnesia
The original FMA anime
The original Hellsing anime
The original Hunter x Hunter anime
The original Berserk anime

These animes could've been saved if they were Split-Cour in the first place. There are hundreds more everyone else could name, but these are the ones I got on my list right now. Also One Piece, Naruto, & some others wouldn't be as slow-paced/ have fillers if they were Split-Cour.

I love Split-Cour because we won't get a filler ending(More likely chance anyway). Highschool of The Dead(Why the re-cap episode though?), Gintama, & Black Lagoon did the smart thing & backed off until they could get more content.

Though doing Split-Cour for already completed content is petty dumb(Fate/Zero & Jormungand).
I don't think that even "splitting" the series that you have mentioned would have had any effect. Because most of those series are even ongoing at this moment.
So even with a 3 month btreak , they will still get an anime original ending.

Also it's not very smart to "split" the popular shounen jump animes (that are on going for a longer time) because they still get fairly high viwers ratings. Even the reruns and the filler episodes of those series are doing quite well.

Also why do you think that splitting finished series is "pretty dumb"? Some people already commented that this was done out of production reasons, like maybe a shortage of staff or to use that beak as a means to maintain quality etc.
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Old 2012-06-20, 13:43   Link #56
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
I don't think that even "splitting" the series that you have mentioned would have had any effect. Because most of those series are even ongoing at this moment.
So even with a 3 month btreak , they will still get an anime original ending.

Also it's not very smart to "split" the popular shounen jump animes (that are on going for a longer time) because they still get fairly high viwers ratings. Even the reruns and the filler episodes of those series are doing quite well.

Also why do you think that splitting finished series is "pretty dumb"? Some people already commented that this was done out of production reasons, like maybe a shortage of staff or to use that beak as a means to maintain quality etc.
Well, it would be much better to take the Western approach in splitting the seasons then, not 3 months. As in show one season a year. If a show like A Game of Thrones went on only 3 month breaks....well you know the books fans would be upset if the TV writers started changing everything. They would also lose about half of their viewers.

I'm sure if they can sit through fillers & crap, I'm pretty damn sure they'd still watch it if it went Split-Cour. They'd gripe about it and not like it, but they would still watch it.

Of course the company wants to squeeze out money, so I don't blame them for running fillers & re-runs(If you're doing Split Cour, you should re-run your show before the Season Premiere anyway to snag more viewers).

Alright, Productions reasons & all that stuff. My fault entirely for forgetting that.

Last edited by The Butcher; 2012-06-20 at 18:09.
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Old 2012-06-21, 00:33   Link #57
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Originally Posted by thirdlc View Post
Apparently, no. According to Director Ishihara, he thought he might not be able to animate the whole of Clannad (including After Story), and that's why he inserted a shot from the last episode of After Story into the Clannad OP. When he was storyboarding the OP, he didn't get a green light to After Story. Can this be called a split cour show?
Hmm... this is an interesting point. I suppose it's possible that a lot more shows that we don't know about are planned tentatively as "split-cour" but then, when they see how the ratings and sales are looking, they pull the plug on part two, and no one ever knows the difference. In this case, clearly they had thought about it, but weren't sure if it would be approved (sort of "wait and see"). To be able to come back and air the second season so soon after the first (even six months isn't that long for anime production) basically means that the production just continued from the first into the second, and that couldn't have happened if they had already committed (for example) to a different show. (In which case, the second season would happen a while after whatever was already committed, which is what usually happens in the case of a non-split-cour "second season" announcement.)

One of the most unusual examples that I know of is Aria the Animation and Aria the Natural, where you had a one-cour show, a sequel announcement, and a second two-cour show less than three months later. Obviously, it must not have been long into the first season when the decision was made because it's a lot of work to get a show ready that quickly. But I don't think in that case they necessarily intended for it to be "split-cour"... just they decided to just keep the production going. I suppose, just like the Clannad example, it can only happen when all the main staff are available and not already committed to something else... which may not always be possible or the case.

So as for the specific example... I guess it's really debatable if it should count as split-cour. But given the fact that it had the same main staff and the two halves were essentially developed "back-to-back", I'd tend to think of that way even if the final decision hadn't been made before production began.
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