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Old 2012-11-19, 22:22   Link #161
judasmartel
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
To everyone who CAN'T read and jumped the gun. Let me just make myself clear. I do not demand a full return to full males anime, I am saying that swinging the pendulum so far in the opposite direction that we pretend that the opposite gender don't or even shouldn't exist IS JUST AS BAD. I am a fan of mixed ensemble cast. In my pov, writers SHOULD explore every aspects of humankind even in that small microcosmos that is highschool, and to achieve that, we must acknowledge that both genders exists, have their needs and wants, qualities and flaws, best and worst. This is why something like Danshi Koukousei No Nichijou appears REFRESHING. Even if females are faceless they have had their moments in the spotlight.

The. Fucking. Middle. Way.

It's not a that hard to grasp concept.
The one thing I liked about Dansei is that it proved that a mostly-male cast can be just as exciting as a mostly-female cast without adding romance to the story.

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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
I forgot her name, Kiritsugu's Assistant. :heh
It's Maiya.

----------

Anyways, I'm quite divided about this issue. You see, the quality of a harem anime depends on the quality of the male lead, and if the male lead isn't worth his salt, then so is the show. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. I've been through my fair share of flame wars over harem anime, particularly about how the ideal harem hero should be.

So what exactly IS the ideal harem hero, then? Is there any rule that says only tall and lanky guys get to be harem heroes, even if they are too boring because they have absolutely no flaws or too infuriating because they have too many flaws? Should he be nice to the girls or should he treat them like crap? How knowledgeable should he be in terms of dealing with girls, especially if it's his first time to get a harem? But given that somebody implied to me that Shinji Ikari is an example of how NOT to make a harem hero...

On the other hand, an all-female cast tends to scream "Moe-Blob!" to me. Add yuri tones into it and you've just got a perfect target practice for moe-haters.

So yeah, with the current state of anime today, I prefer an action series with a mostly female cast, which should be balanced by prominent or popular male characters. They may usually be the Mentor who trains them, the Mission Control who guides their way through missions, or the Player who keeps hitting on at least one of the girls. For me, at least one of them should have something like a love interest, and he may or may not be relevant to the story, though it's fine if there isn't.

If I get to choose from any timeline however, I still want to watch the good old "sausage fests" of the Nineties that I grew up with, although yeah, a fair amount of anime in that period would be accused of being sexist in the modern day just because fewer females are given prominent non-love-interest roles.
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Old 2012-11-20, 09:58   Link #162
Sheba
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
The one thing I liked about Dansei is that it proved that a mostly-male cast can be just as exciting as a mostly-female cast without adding romance to the story.



.
Not only that, it did so without completely excluding the girls. The fact that there was crazy shipping even without the romance element was a bonus. A great highschool shounen that showed that both genders from every age range counted IS Great Teacher Onizuka. I mean even Mr White Cresta had his day in the limelight, and a very useful one since it helped us to understand that he lost sight of why he was teacher to begin with and that he was not always a dick.

Having grown up with Maupassant, Zola and Balzac, and also Tolkien, you can say that I absolutely love ensemble casts that feature a more or less equal amount of characters of each gender, because I believe that it gives more room for character studies and exploration of their interpersonal chemistry.
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Old 2012-11-23, 21:59   Link #163
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Originally Posted by Reek of Blood View Post
Why harem exist and became popular in Japan in the first place?

The credit goes to those lonely, desperate otakus that failed to get girlfriends, shut themselves tight in their cramped rooms instead of joining any useful activities in society, and drowning themselves inside their unrealistic, wish-fulfilment delusions instead of accepting reality.
And then, it turns out that a good chunk of them earn far more than you.....
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Old 2012-11-23, 22:16   Link #164
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And then, it turns out that a good chunk of them earn far more than you.....
Exactly, i agree with you. Also, it should be noted that not all otaku are like those people that Reek of Blood described. Many of them are creative and capable people that lead prosperous life (with several media such as LNs, VNs, and anime as the results of it). AND, they have their own communities that consist of hundred/thousands of otakus with the same hobbies, so it's a huge mistake to merely claim them as "lonely" people. It's quite unfair if we simply judge them based on their behaviour and excessive obsession towards their hobbies.
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Old 2012-11-24, 03:12   Link #165
judasmartel
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The reason why they earn more than us is because that's the only way they can sustain their incredibly expensive hobby. As they say, "crack is cheaper".
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Old 2012-11-24, 03:23   Link #166
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
The reason why they earn more than us is because that's the only way they can sustain their incredibly expensive hobby. As they say, "crack is cheaper".
So basically what you're saying is if they weren't otakus, their pay wouldn't be more than us ?
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Old 2012-11-24, 03:33   Link #167
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Lol it'll be the same even if they werent. 99% on otaku merchandise, 1% on insta noodles
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Old 2012-11-24, 03:45   Link #168
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So basically what you're saying is if they weren't otakus, their pay wouldn't be more than us ?
I think it should really have been said in reverse; the reason they can sustain their expensive hobby is because they have more discretionary income.

But, in response to the "those damn otaku" complaint that always comes up, it almost always goes the same way:

Show someone doesn't like sells well: "Those Damn Otaku"
Show someone likes doesn't sell well: "Those Damn Otaku"
Show someone doesn't like doesn't sell well: "The Show Deserved It"
Show someone likes sells well: "I Have Good Taste!"

The biggest problem most people have with "Those Damn Otaku" isn't that they're "drowning themselves inside their unrealistic, wish-fulfilment delusions instead of accepting reality". It's that their tastes don't always agree those of the person speaking. It's like positive rep on this Forum; very few complain about people that agree with them.


/written from my cramped room, on break from wish-fulfilment, doing the "useful activity" of participating on this Forum. Good to know I fail at life! Suddenly feel a craving for some harem anime...?
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Old 2012-11-24, 03:49   Link #169
judasmartel
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Oops. My bad.
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Old 2012-11-24, 08:07   Link #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Yeah, badly for shows that have a higher male to female ratio. They are either called out as fujoshi catering or sexist, or anything between the two ends of that spectrum. I quite remember people being bothered that Fate/Zero had so few females. See, years ago, Fate/Zero would not have been called out on that.
To be fair things have gotten a lot....dumber in the last few years alone. I never used to see NTR spammed up and down threads every time there was the slightest possibility that a female character had upset a male characters ambitions in someway. I wonder if some people have gotten a little too used to modern tropes that they can't see when they aren't really present at all and it's just natural storytelling or what, but it sure is odd.

One other thing I've noticed and still have mixed feelings about is that some of the traditionally hot blooded male roles are sort of going to female characters a bit more lately. You have more and more female characters of late in action shows that can fight pretty well compared to the 80's and can come off as just as capable as their male counterparts, but something is different and I think watching JoJo awoke me to that. It's the bromance that's missing and the hot blooded passion that often comes with it. It's funny cause I've noticed that it almost seems like sometimes they try to set these characters up as having lesbian tension with other female characters in the shows to create what I guess is a "sismance", but yeah not quite the same idea.

While its cool to see female characters get the chance to be hot-blooded, which would have never really happened to the same extent in the 80's (give or take characters like Millia from Macross) and while I've taken a liking to a few recent examples, I hope that they don't totally take over that role from the male characters and that there continues to be a role for the hot-blooded action hero to play in anime cause seeing the male sex totally reduced to weak-willed fools would just be....annoying.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2012-11-24 at 08:19.
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Old 2012-11-24, 08:19   Link #171
Sheba
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"Bromance", as fandom seems to think, clearly knows where is the limit between friendship and homosexual love and draws a clear line. It's a form of friendship with a slice of love without the complications and desires that comes with love.
It's just deeper, more intense, with an unwavering sense of loyalty and respect that still lingers even with the passage of time. Like Hidenori in Danshi Koukousei, you may complain about a lot of little things that your friends have or does, but you accept it anyway, and like Yoshitake from the same series, you decide to walk the path they walks even if you know that it is wrong.

Another show that portrays that kind of bromance that I talk about is Gungrave. And in live action, you have John Woo's movies.

While I can say that "bromance" have me pumping my fist in the air, I cannot say the same about the female counterpart that feels more exploitative.
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Old 2012-11-24, 08:29   Link #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
"Bromance", as fandom seems to think, knows clearly knows where is the limit between friendship and homosexual love and draws a clear line. It's a form of friendship with a slice of love without the complications and desires that comes with love.
It's just deeper, more intense, with an unwavering sense of loyalty and respect that still lingers even with the passage of time. Like Hidenori in Danshi Koukousei, you may complain about a lot of little things that your friends have or does, but you accept it anyway, and like Yoshitake from the same series, you decide to walk the path they walks even if you know that it is wrong.

Another show that portrays that kind of bromance that I talk about is Gungrave.
Yeah the problem with trying to do it nowadays is I think a lot of modern fans would miss the point and just see "OMG Yaoi" rather than the intended feelings of camaraderie and deep friendship. It's almost like there's a growing tendency to see everything through the eyes of romance and shipping as an end goal which I think is why you get all these accusations of NTR any time anything happens. I really don't think it's helped that there's just so much more anime that take place in high schools with harem twists to them then there ever was in the past such that when there's a show that makes a clear break from that there's still the tendency to attribute those expectations to them.

It's also why I kind of assume that the audience for something like Jojo is mostly filled with old dogs like you and me who "get it" and a lot of the younger people probably see a low budget Yaoifest that doesn't have nearly enough waifus to pick from to warrant a look.

As for the difference between the action hero and the action girl, the former gets something of a flexed muscle and wide grin reaction out of me when they do something awesome most of the time whereas the latter gets something more like an open gaped mouth and wide eyed stare. Maybe that's just because I don't fully have a frame of reference for how to react to the latter yet but yeah that's more less what tends to happen.
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Old 2012-11-25, 06:05   Link #173
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So basically what you're saying is if they weren't otakus, their pay wouldn't be more than us ?
I think all of us who seriously are into this hobby know how ex it can get and how loafing around won't get us very far with it wwww
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Old 2012-11-25, 08:09   Link #174
judasmartel
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Simply put, if people say otakus do nothing but loaf around, then unless they have the best support system in the world, they can't even afford their ridiculously expensive hobby. They gotta have to do something outside of their rooms to afford a lot of anime merchandise.
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Old 2012-11-25, 16:55   Link #175
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
They gotta have to do something outside of their rooms to afford a lot of anime merchandise.
Or they work from home!

TL;DR…
 
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Anyway, part of all this is why I don't really see the need/value in this sort of "debate". I think people should just find the sorts of shows that are interested to them and, thankfully, these days there seems to be a pretty good variety.
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Old 2012-11-28, 00:35   Link #176
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Show someone doesn't like sells well: "Those Damn Otaku"
I read this as

Someone doesn't smell well: "Those Damn Otaku"


.... Especially summer Comikets.
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Old 2012-11-28, 03:39   Link #177
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I read this as

Someone doesn't smell well: "Those Damn Otaku"


.... Especially summer Comikets.
Well... that at least seems somewhat based in observable (if selected and anecdotal) fact, let's say... (But Summer Comiket is just generally unbearable for pretty much anyone, standing in that sort of heat for so long. I think I'd melt, never mind stink... )
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Old 2012-11-28, 06:05   Link #178
aohige
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Yes, to be honest, the stench while strong, was the least of the problems.
I thought I was gonna DIE from the heat.

I vowed to myself to only attend winter Comiket ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reek of Blood View Post
Why harem exist and became popular in Japan in the first place?

The credit goes to those lonely, desperate otakus that failed to get girlfriends, shut themselves tight in their cramped rooms instead of joining any useful activities in society, and drowning themselves inside their unrealistic, wish-fulfilment delusions instead of accepting reality.
I found this comment in particular funny.

As if "pimping mah own zoo of hoes" was uniquely a Japanese male desire.
I'm going to have to assume the poster is either:
1) not a male. 2) not old enough to have gained such desires. 3) A liar! Burn the witch!

The gutter side of the brain don't lie. Just listen to it.
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Old 2012-11-28, 06:48   Link #179
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The obvious solution is yuri harem. Best of both worlds.
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Old 2012-11-29, 01:19   Link #180
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by ninryu View Post
The obvious solution is yuri harem. Best of both worlds.
A world without Bros is not worth living in at all!
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