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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 37
10: Amazing... 5 17.86%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 7 25.00%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 9 32.14%
7 out of 10: Good... 3 10.71%
6 out of 10: Average... 1 3.57%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 3.57%
4 out of 10: Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 3.57%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 1 3.57%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-25, 10:53   Link #81
justsomeguy
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
North Korea. It isn't that far fetched, really.
It's very different. The main difference is that North Korean people are literally brainwashed to believe that they have it better than other people (with people sneaking over the border to China being very surprised at the huge differences), and they're actually too weak of a country to do much.

The exact opposite is in play here. The Vagans were equal or stronger than the Earth Sphere, able to achieve their objective of taking Earth, but insist on wasting their advantages. Here, the Vagans all know the Earth is much better, and they are strong and have everything in their favor to go back and take over if they wish, including better tech, a sob story to tell about how they were abandoned, and sympathizers in the Earth Federation government including the Prime Minister himself! What do they do with all these strategic advantages? They decide to squander it all by waging an unnecessary war instead of just going back, which was what they always wanted and can do at any time they wish.
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Old 2012-06-25, 10:57   Link #82
aeriolewinters
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The federation made it clear that they're not letting word of the slip-up out. So even if they return to earth, they'd be cleared out by feds.

And also, this presents an even bigger concern. Mars bacterium. Imagine if a strain incurable diseases originate from a migrant, and a fed traces it back to Mars, it'll be the same.
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Old 2012-06-25, 11:03   Link #83
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The federation made it clear that they're not letting word of the slip-up out. So even if they return to earth, they'd be cleared out by feds.
Why do people keep making this up? No, the EF cannot. All the Vagans have to do is publicize their peaceful return, and the Earth's peace-loving civilian population would not abide a genocide. Or the Vagan could just use their amazing military tech, which the EF could not even scratch 70 years ago, to protect themselves. Nevermind that Vagan sympathizers have been controlling the EF for god knows how long, and the EF didn't even respond to Vagan attacks on colonies for 10 years.

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And also, this presents an even bigger concern. Mars bacterium. Imagine if a strain incurable diseases originate from a migrant, and a fed traces it back to Mars, it'll be the same.
Hypothetical.
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Old 2012-06-25, 11:05   Link #84
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Why do people keep making this up? No, the EF cannot. All the Vagans have to do is publicize their return, and the Earth's peace-loving civilian population would not abide a genocide. Or the Vagan could just use their amazing military tech, which the EF could not even scratch 70 years ago, to protect themselves.
Or just initiate a coup and take over the Federation from the inside and dummy up some records.

Seriously people. The Vagans have proven to be very effective infilitrators and spies in which they case they even had the Prime Minister in their control. If Ezcelant was serious and didn't bothered giving the Earthlings a chance he could've possibly had Flit eliminated or neutralized way before he uncovered it.
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:01   Link #85
Skye629
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Lets make one point very clear:

Who gives a shit if the Vagans could have won/returned peacefully early/reasons why?

We wouldn't even have a story to tell if that was the case (of course the story suffers from this though)
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:15   Link #86
justsomeguy
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Lets make one point very clear:

Who gives a shit if the Vagans could have won/returned peacefully early/reasons why?

We wouldn't even have a story to tell if that was the case (of course the story suffers from this though)
That's exactly why what we're presented with doesn't work. Any rational thinking about the Vagan leads to the conclusion that they are evil for the sake of evil, not worthy of sympathy as the writers are too obviously trying to pile on this episode (surprisingly enough, some people on this board are taken in. This show reveals quite a bit about the audience). The writers should be held accountable for writing a story that only occurs because of amazing stupidity and shallow characters. This is Gundam, not a comedy series.
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:19   Link #87
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Being consumed by anger is not an excuse. They could have gone back to Earth long ago, yet they didn't. They can demand some of their industrial output go to their civilians, but they didn't. They could have insisted on a leader that can win a war quickly, but they didn't. Instead, they sit around being angry and dying of Mars Rays while letting themselves get screwed harder by their own military and leaders then the Earth Federation did to them.
The citizens don't know the full details, besides. Anger tends to make people irrational. I'm sure none of them really sat down and consider other options. In their eyes they're justified for fighting since they've been suffering so long. It's easy to blame the Federations that letting go of anger and doing something rational.
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:23   Link #88
justsomeguy
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The citizens don't know the full details, besides. Anger tends to make people irrational. I'm sure none of them really sat down and consider other options. In their eyes they're justified for fighting since they've been suffering so long. It's easy to blame the Federations that letting go of anger and doing something rational.
That presupposes that the citizens have no idea what kind of amazing toys their military has access to, and no idea how to alleviate their suffering. Also, if Vagans are all about anger and lack of rationality, then what can that be called besides evil? The writers are obviously trying to make them sympathetic, but that falls to any bit of critical thinking.
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:30   Link #89
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well, one good thing, we learned that there is more than one vegan colony!
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Old 2012-06-25, 12:36   Link #90
Destined_Fate
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That presupposes that the citizens have no idea what kind of amazing toys their military has access to, and no idea how to alleviate their suffering. Also, if Vagans are all about anger and lack of rationality, then what can that be called besides evil? The writers are obviously trying to make them sympathetic, but that falls to any bit of critical thinking.
Even if the citizens knew they have no way of going about doing anything. The Military is dead set on fighting the Feds, so even if some citizens questioned what could they do? It's far easier to agree with the military and blame the Feds.

I think the writers are just trying to show that when untold suffering is inflicted upon a people they don't see things the same as those that haven't suffered as they have. What they are doing is wrong, it's stupid, and irrational. But to them they see this as the just and only path that has any hope or something else that's cheesy.
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Old 2012-06-25, 13:23   Link #91
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The thing is this.

Take SEED for example. There's sympathy on both sides but you understand where ZAFT stands because their people actually were persecuted by harrassed by others on Earth.

In AGE though, it's more of a jealousy and irrational anger on their part. Yes they have a right to be angry with the government that abandoned them centuries ago but that doesn't justify them to take it out on civilians that had nothing to do with it let alone were even aware of it.

Flit did sorta avenged them by purging the ones responsible but the added notion that they're testing the Earthlings and such just makes things weird.......it's hard to be sympathetic for the Vagans. They talk like the Earthlings are sitting at home laughing at them but they didn't even know about their situation to begin with and during Flit's arc we know that it wasn't 100% even without the Vagans to begin with.
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:56   Link #92
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Easily the best ep of the series thus far.
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Old 2012-06-25, 15:56   Link #93
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And also, this presents an even bigger concern. Mars bacterium. Imagine if a strain incurable diseases originate from a migrant, and a fed traces it back to Mars, it'll be the same.
Mars Rays as the name implies is radiation poisoning. They have cancer and weak immune systems.

Mars has a weak magnetic field that does not prevent cosmic radiation. For some reason Vegan colonies can't protect them from radiation.

Earth Sphere colonies does not have these problems.

So it is either stupidity on the Vegans part (Being cheap and not bothering) or they lack the material science.
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Old 2012-06-25, 16:14   Link #94
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The whole point is that it's difficult to criticize the Vagans because their very way of thinking is radically different. It's like telling a predator it shouldn't be eating living things. It just wouldn't compute.

It doesn't justify anything they do. But you can't criticize them for doing what seems natural. All earth really CAN do is do everything they can to stop them from messing things up. Talking it over just isn't going to happen any time soon.
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Old 2012-06-25, 16:21   Link #95
justsomeguy
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The whole point is that it's difficult to criticize the Vagans because their very way of thinking is radically different. It's like telling a predator it shouldn't be eating living things. It just wouldn't compute.

It doesn't justify anything they do. But you can't criticize them for doing what seems natural. All earth really CAN do is do everything they can to stop them from messing things up. Talking it over just isn't going to happen any time soon.
That's basically justifying genocide of the Vagans. In other words, everything Flit has ever said was right.
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Old 2012-06-25, 17:19   Link #96
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Never said anything about genociding the Vagans either. I'm just saying that it's hard to talk normally with people whose way of thinking is rather alien.
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Old 2012-06-25, 17:36   Link #97
justsomeguy
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All earth really CAN do is do everything they can to stop them from messing things up. Talking it over just isn't going to happen any time soon.
Well, if diplomacy doesn't work, then the alternative is endless warfare, unless one side completely wipes out the other. And since the EF government's duty is to protect its own citizens and not those of a hostile foreign nation, then given what you said genocide is the only option for peace.
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Old 2012-06-25, 19:06   Link #98
mechalord
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Was it implied that Ezelcant could be an Asuno?

The Asuno's are a long line of engineers and scientists. Wouldn't be a surprise if an Asuno led or participated in the Mars expedition.

But that doesn't make any sense because only Flit appears to look like his father. Kio and Asem look like their moms... who aren't of Asuno lineage.


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Oh if romary was secretly ezelcant's relative... hohoho...
Spoiler for oMG!:

Last edited by mechalord; 2012-06-25 at 19:21.
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Old 2012-06-26, 02:19   Link #99
Skye629
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That's exactly why what we're presented with doesn't work. Any rational thinking about the Vagan leads to the conclusion that they are evil for the sake of evil, not worthy of sympathy as the writers are too obviously trying to pile on this episode (surprisingly enough, some people on this board are taken in. This show reveals quite a bit about the audience). The writers should be held accountable for writing a story that only occurs because of amazing stupidity and shallow characters. This is Gundam, not a comedy series.
I would definitely blame the writers on how they handled the story, it had great potential but to me it seemed the made up on the go once they had the basic premise set up. leading to a host of issues, also development suffers from the approximately 50 ep series trying to squeeze in 3 gens and a ton of characters

Also for "any rational thinking" you seem to be forgetting the fact that everybody rationalizes these things differently based on their values beliefs and setting etc (For examples we hate suicide bombers in the middle east yet to those ppl its one of the highest acts of faith to their god)

And honestly I would feel sorry for the Vagans born into their society with no choice but to live that life, as well as most having no say over Ezelcant (this dude definitely needs to die though)

Also Gundam is definitely not a comedy, but dont forget this is aimed at KIDS, they usually wont give a shit or much thought about plot, If you want serious go watch UC, AC have never had the plot quality of UC IMO

Last edited by Skye629; 2012-06-26 at 03:01.
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Old 2012-06-26, 05:17   Link #100
Dengar
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Well, if diplomacy doesn't work, then the alternative is endless warfare, unless one side completely wipes out the other. And since the EF government's duty is to protect its own citizens and not those of a hostile foreign nation, then given what you said genocide is the only option for peace.
Or you could (try to) exhaust their military resources/morale. You know, how wars are USUALLY fought?
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