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Old 2013-06-19, 09:16   Link #261
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
But origin of Atziluth? She is Atziluth user from the start....not anything to do with the guilotine
Eh, really? I thought she got that because she was born under the guillotine, and thus was bound to it.
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Old 2013-06-19, 09:22   Link #262
Kirayuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Ah right...then, I wonder would the holy grail be affected by Marie's guillotine?
Holy Grail (Valeria) wasn't affected by this because the difference in number of soul stocked is just too large at that point.

Quote:
I don't quite understand this statement. Him? her? So Overture really was Gudou?
Pardon me, a typo. I meant her in the end not "him".

Quote:
Marie seemed to achieve Atziluth right after she's born. Her desire or rather the origin of her Atziluth is the guillotine, right? She's always bound to the guillotine and to the moment it cuts heads, thus everyone touching her got sucked to that moment and got their head chopped. It's also another reason aside from her achieving Atziluth that she remains in that twilight.
The "Beheading on touch" is just her curse. What Mercurius did is store her soul in the Guillotine that Ren uses

Her desire is probably something along the line of "Staying on that place forever", which is why she is excluded from the rest of world and stay on Twilight Beach forever. Mercurius noticed this when she said "I am always here" just before she got executed.

Quote:
Just what I was saying. Normally every soul returns to the start line immediately after death, but Marie's doesn't. Speaking of Rewinds, Mercurius can choose when to do that instead of automatically after his destruction like he meant to do in Rea's route?
It is basically if He doesn't admit the conclusion, only by then the rewind happen. Excluding event before KKK, Mercurius mostly rewind only when he fought Reinhard. Note that this is the "active" version of his power, nobody from Dies world can escape this including Marie.

What make Marie different during the beginning of Dies is she is not affected by the law of Eternal Recurrence (not return to start line after death). However, if Mercurius enact the "forced" Rewind she would still get affected.

Quote:
I'm quite sure it said somewhere that Briah is both the realization of the user's most inner wish and the most fitting to the Relic's.
It is, however it's just merely a tool prepared by Mercurius to help those who are not natural Atziluth user to achieve Godhood. Natural Atziluth user in Dies involve Marie and Snake only.
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Old 2013-06-19, 09:36   Link #263
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Eh, really? I thought she got that because she was born under the guillotine, and thus was bound to it.
She may be bound to the guilotine but that has no bearing on being Atziluth user.

She's like Cogliostro in that they are special.
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Old 2013-06-19, 09:40   Link #264
Kirayuki
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Note that some desire can change like Marie experienced in Dies. What Holy Relics do is transform the stocked soul on it as power for the user to achieve Godhood.

Natural born Atziluth user like Marie is basically a God born among humans, she doesn't need to transform souls into her power to achieve Godhood (Atziluth).

The rest of the cast in Dies are mostly a normal human, thus they need the help of Holy Relic to store the soul into it and transform them into their power to achieve Godhood. The requirement for a fitting Desire with Holy Relic is merely just a step for the user to fully reconcile/unite with the Holy Relic.
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:15   Link #265
Reality Breaker
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Regarding the Three Colors Route, does the drama CD epilogue mention the winner of the fight?
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:18   Link #266
Kirayuki
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Drama CD epilogue is the one for Rea's route.

And both routes still ended the same (Reinhard and Snake destroying each other). Ren participating doesn't change the result.
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:22   Link #267
Reality Breaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirayuki View Post
Drama CD epilogue is the one for Rea's route.

And both routes still ended the same (Reinhard and Snake destroying each other). Ren participating doesn't change the result.
Hm. So Ren emerged as the victor. Anything else that happened during RR Epilogue?

Also why there are two separate routes that involve the same outcome? Do they begin differently? A different heroine, perhaps?
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Old 2013-06-19, 11:26   Link #268
Kirayuki
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Not really, Ren get destroyed first in the 3-way fight. In Rea's route, Ren would disappear if Snake dies. If there is a winner, it is Snake but that is the whole point of Marie.

Rea's route epilogue is just a variation of the epilogue in the Three Colors route. Technically they are still the same with the world start anew and Ren reuniting with Rea again.

The branch happen just before the final battle and the new route is something that get added later in Amantes Amentes. It wasn't present originally in Acta est Fabula released back in 2009. The whole point of new route is more scene for Ren's origin and fanservice with him participating in the final battle (also a nod of reference to KKK).

EDIT : Forgot to mention, more ANNAAA for the new route.

Last edited by Kirayuki; 2013-06-19 at 11:39.
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Old 2013-06-19, 17:05   Link #269
erneiz_hyde
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Say, what happens to Snake in Rea's epilogue? Is he still the only exception to Marie's embrace? Marie's world allows reincarnation right? Is the Karl Kraft mentioned by Reinhard then him?
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Old 2013-06-19, 17:56   Link #270
Kirayuki
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He was already embraced to die, so he is not an exception anymore.

As of whether he is reincarnated, that is pretty open to speculation I guess. Either way most likely he is just a normal human just like Reinhard.
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Old 2013-06-19, 20:51   Link #271
shmaster
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Consider Ren and Reinhard are normal human in the Rea after, it is safe to say the Snake is human too if he got reincarnated. Ren and Reinhard's godhood is dependent on Snake after all.

One more thing about Longinus. That spear is specifically designed by Merucrius to be wield by the person who posses the highest leadership and charisma in the world. Since no one can top Reinhard in that category, you can say it is order made for Reinhard. In other words, if Reinhard ever happens to be dead, the spear will default itself to the second best.

BTW, there is another reason why Ren can use the guillotine. Go look up on Lotus's last name and what that family use to do.
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Old 2013-06-19, 21:59   Link #272
erneiz_hyde
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OK...I visited that god14 atwiki and read about Scherzo.
Spoiler:


Also, while reading the discussion sections of that page, I noticed that Snake's Rewind has a hilarious nick name ちゃぶ台返し/Table Flip. Make sense I guess, somehow I can imagine him doing that table flip while screaming "Screw this ending~!!!"
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Old 2013-06-19, 22:06   Link #273
Kirayuki
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It's true if some people call it back side, after all his original wish basically includes:

- "Not allowing anybody he loved to die"
- "Doesn't accept losing something he loved"
- "Preserve that beautiful moment forever"

Which can lead to ---> "Doesn't accept the dead"

BTW, dead people coming out from his loved one basically deal some damage to him. if you look in Rea's route just the moment before he went change from Overture to Finale, you can see the suffering he had. Along with Snake's help, I think those two are the reason propelling the change from Gudou to Hadou. Originally, his Gudou probably only involve "preserving those beautiful moment". Losing those loved ones affect the content of the prayer and change it into Hadou.

EDIT : Also, his whole soul is basically the polar opposite of Machina. The origin of Scherzo shouldn't be surprising actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Also, while reading the discussion sections of that page, I noticed that Snake's Rewind has a hilarious nick name ちゃぶ台返し/Table Flip. Make sense I guess, somehow I can imagine him doing that table flip while screaming "Screw this ending~!!!"
....If you bother looking at the list of "渇望” of all cast among Dies and KKK,

-"I want to die"
-"I want to live"
-"I want to be alone"

Those three are probably the most ridiculous, enough to make some people doesn't take them seriously until they played the game itself.

Last edited by Kirayuki; 2013-06-19 at 23:09.
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Old 2013-06-19, 23:09   Link #274
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Spoiler:
The got to the point of fighting the Snake. But they have no choice to start over again because nothing can be resolved as Marie did not attained Hadou godhood.
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Old 2013-06-19, 23:20   Link #275
Cosmic Eagle
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Although what good would Atziluth Scherzo do...
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Old 2013-06-19, 23:23   Link #276
Kirayuki
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Erasing the concept of "Resident Evil" franchise and such from existence.
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Old 2013-06-19, 23:32   Link #277
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Kirayuki View Post
Erasing the concept of "Resident Evil" franchise and such from existence.
But having no effect ultimately on Snake's Law
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Old 2013-06-19, 23:39   Link #278
Kirayuki
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On the first place, would he even capable to reach the Taikyoku level as high as Snake with Scherzo ?

I'll just quote one of your favorite line :
すべて。 そう、すべて。
あらゆるものは意味を持たない。

This just reinforce my belief that the real protagonist of Dies is Kemono-dono. Or at least the most contributing supporting actor in this Opera.
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Old 2013-06-20, 01:18   Link #279
Reality Breaker
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Senshinkan is coming out on 6/21, right? Tomorrow or next year?
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Old 2013-06-20, 01:27   Link #280
Kirayuki
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....it is the opening of the official site. The game is slated for release in 2013

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