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Old 2013-03-14, 05:40   Link #101
Tusjecht
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You say witch, I think Mahou Shoujo
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Old 2013-03-14, 10:16   Link #102
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You say witch, I think Mahou Shoujo
She has summon skill so Wicthcraft.
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Old 2013-08-05, 20:05   Link #103
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If Lime Bell ever gained IS, it would be related to "time". Being the only duel avatar to control time would make really powerful.
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Old 2013-08-05, 21:22   Link #104
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Hmm. I wonder who would teach Chiyuri to use the Incarnate System, and how.


Haruyuki wanted to regain his ability to fly, and his training started on a tower. Pushing him off and telling him to get back to the top as best he could made good sense as a training exercise, even if it produced nothing like the ability to fly.

We only got to see the start of Takumu's training (in the anime), and there's no garauntee that Niko didn't change things up, but she only stuck around for a bit before logging out and leaving Pile to practice on his own.

Anyway, his training seemed to be about using his clumsy Pile-Driver to defend himself from her missile barrages, probably until he made the first step into transforming the weapon into something more graceful and protective. After Niko left, he probably performed kendo exercises with the Pile-Driver until he perfected transforming it into the Cyan Blade.


Haruyuki's training could not directly involve or improve Silver Crow's Aviation power, since he didn't have it at the time. But it also showed that Incarnate training doesn't have to start with your one most iconic ability.

So, Chiyuri could be trained to do more with Citron Call, or her trainer could focus on Defense or Mobility training.
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Old 2013-08-07, 01:08   Link #105
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Originally Posted by tuckersister View Post
If Lime Bell ever gained IS, it would be related to "time". Being the only duel avatar to control time would make really powerful.
Yeah, completely regressing their opponent to right before they join the game is as haxx as it comes.

But it would also defeat the duel in the first place since you erase all the points that could've been won.
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Old 2013-08-07, 07:05   Link #106
Sunder the Gold
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The terrible thing is, it seems very possible that Chiyuri's IS could be stupid-broken.

Lime Bell's system ability already comes close to Hax, because of how it can let her game the system. For example, theoretically using Seiryu's level-down power to re-spec your avatar, or cheating someone out of a deal sealed with a trade of an Enhanced Armament by reversing the weapon-trade.
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Old 2013-08-08, 11:50   Link #107
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Lime Bell would be scary as hell if Chiyuri ever level her up more. Magenta Scissors seems to hate that ability.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:13   Link #108
Tusjecht
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Magenta Scissors doesn't hate that ability, where'd you get the impression from? She/he is obsessed with symmetrical avatars and how beautiful they look like to her/him.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:19   Link #109
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Originally Posted by Tusjecht View Post
Magenta Scissors doesn't hate that ability, where'd you get the impression from? She/he is obsessed with symmetrical avatars and how beautiful they look like to her/him.
So Scissors prefers Black Lotus and Silver Crow to Cyan Pile and Lime Bell? Enhanced Armaments tend to spoil symmetry.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:28   Link #110
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She says something to that tune in V12 about Lotus and how she's 'the most beautiful one.'
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Old 2013-08-10, 05:58   Link #111
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I feel that Chiyuri/Lime Bell will be a more critical character further though the LNs. She's the only one that can reverse time.

Also I hate to ask, but can someone post all her abilities up til now?
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Old 2013-08-10, 08:36   Link #112
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Also I hate to ask, but can someone post all her abilities up til now?
I'd actually love to answer! I like writing reports on interesting things.


Let's start with Lime Bell's Enhanced Armament, the Choir Chime. It's the bell that she wears over her hand. Since she's already a Green-type avatar with tough armor, the Chime is probably even tougher, allowing her to use it as a shield as well as a club. It seems to work well as a club, owing to that toughness and possibly also to considerable weight.

It's possible that Lime Bell is that unusual sort of small-framed strength-type avatar, as opposed to small-framed speed types like Silver Crow or large-framed strength types like Cyan Pile.

That is, even though her body is small and doesn't offer good stride (leg length), reach (arm length) or leverage (height), Lime Bell packs as much muscle and armor as possible for her size. This weight would make her a little harder to pick up or knock down by enemies than her size would suggest, and the mass would result in greater toughness and HP.

(Bush Utan is another small-framed strength-type, though he's apparently built more like an orangutan than a human, with long arms and small legs and possibly the ability to run on all four limbs. Though he's built strong and tough, he was still light enough that Silver Crow easily lifted him into the air with his Level 4 Aviation.)

So, even though her Chime isn't the best melee weapon and she doesn't have any directly damaging attacks, she can get into a close-range slugging match without being utterly doomed. This is good for her support role, as it allows her to act like a tank whenever she isn't ready to use Citron Call, and she can rack up Special Meter from damage to use Citron Call sooner.

Her strength, the Choir Chime as a club, and her toughness also allow her to inflict damage to the environment to build up Special Meter, even in environments where objects tend to be tough and inflict chip damage to anyone who strikes them. Again, very valuable for a support player.

Her footspeed must be inferior to Cyan Pile's. Pile has longer legs and thus takes longer strides, and his larger body and legs also allow for even more muscle mass. Pile's greater weight would mean he can't reach his full speed or come to a stop as easily as Lime Bell, though, so in at least some sense she's more agile than he is.

Finally, Lime Bell has two Special Attacks: Citron Call (Mode I), and Citron Call (Mode II).


Mode 1 is a "reverse real-time over-time" effect. The longer that Lime Bell keeps the beam over a target, the more of its time is reversed. Because the effect is not totally completely in an instant, it is difficult to get the full effect against an opponent, since they will be trying to dodge and avoid it, or attacking her to interrupt the attack. Obviously, allies are more willing to stand still and accept the beam, so the attack is more support than debuff in a practical sense. (Though, if her allies can pin a target down...)

Fortunately, each second under the Citron Call's beam seems to reverse more than a second of the target's time, though the exact ratio is unknown. Well, even if the ratio is actually exactly 1/1, we don't know exactly how much time can be reversed with a full-length, uninterrupted beam.

We do know that Citron Call requires only a 50% full Special Gauge to use, so Lime Bell can get two full reversal-beams from a full Special Gauge. However, since Citron Call is a Special Attack rather than a limited-activation ability, Lime Bell HAS to use a full half of her Gauge each time she uses the attack. She can't just cut if off half-way and so use only 25%; the full 50% is spent as soon as she activates it, and that remains spent even if she cuts the attack off early.


It's important to note that Citron Call's time-reversal is comprehensive. It doesn't just reverse damage and remove Special Points gained from suffering damage, it reverses changes of all sorts.

Any Special Points gained from inflicting damage will be erased, as well. Thus, Citron Call can be used as an attack against an opponent who built up his Special Gauge through environmental damage and hasn't lost any HP yet. Citron Call wouldn't heal any damage, and would empty his Gauge. Though, as said, an opponent will do their best to interrupt the beam by avoiding it or attacking.

Because Citron Call erases Special Points gained from any source, Lime Bell has to be smart about when she uses it on her allies, since she doesn't want to rob them of any more Special Points than necessary.

It should be noted that reversing damage applies to Enhanced Armaments and environmental objects as well. Instead of justing restoring your HP, she can repair your weapon even though its damage is unrelated to your HP.

The ability to fix environmental objects is an enormous tactical advantage. Cyan Pile can use his Pile Driver and great strength to break down a door or wall blocking their way, and Lime Bell can restore those things to prestine condition to impede anyone chasing them. Or Pile can destroy a bridge to cut off an enemy's escape, and after the enemy is defeated, Bell can restore the bridge for their own use.

If a target equipped an Enhanced Armament within the time being reversed, that item will be un-equipped. Yes, Citron Call can easily strip away Scarlet Rain's mighty Immobile Fortress. Obviously, this would have no effect against Enhanced Armaments that opponents have equipped at the very start of any fight.

Status effects like poison would also be erased, of course. But this also probably includes status changes like Shapeshift, the ability Blood Leopard, Lagoon Dolphin and Coral Merrow use to transform. Such avatars would find their Special Gauges being refunded as their bodies revert to normal.

This shapechange-reversal is also how Lime Bell returned a bug Enemy in a Jungle-type standard duel field to the default egg shape in which it starts the duel. The bug would have been unaffected if it started the duel as-is instead of as an egg.


However, I must once again explain how Citron Call's weakness comes into play. It does not reverse the total possible time instantly, only incrementally.

Let us use Scarlet Rain as an example target, and assume that Citron Call can reverse a minute's worth of time in 30 seconds.

Scarlet Rain has taken damage a lot of damage from a number of small attacks at the beginning of that minute, and then equipped the Immoble Fortress before suffering one severely damaging attack.

When Lime Bell uses Citron Call against Scarlet Rain, these changes are reversed in order. Bell might want to remove the Immobile Fortress before the massive damage, but she can't.

So first, Citron Call removes the massive damage, leaving Rain mostly healthy AND protected within her mecha. However, the damage from the number of smaller attacks is not yet reversed.

Next, the Immobile Fortress is removed. This probably takes just as long as summoning it does, rather than happening as fast as the dismissal burst that Rain used against Silver Crow.

Assuming that Lime Bell can keep the time-reversal beam on the suddenly-less-encumbered Scarlet Rain, each of the individual smaller attack's damage is reversed one by one. Not all at once, and with a delay between each "heal" porpotionate to the span of time that passed between suffering one attack and the next.


Still using Scarlet Rain as an example, and assuming that one full use of Citron Call (Mode 1) can reverse no more than one whole minute, if Rain had equipped the Immobile Fortress more than a minute ago, the beam would not be able to banish the armor.

If Rain had summoned the mecha 59 seconds ago, Lime Bell would need to keep the beam trained on Rain for nearly the full possible duration in order to remove it. Which can be a very difficult order if Rain or her allies are attacking Bell.


Using Scarlet Rain for one last example, if Lime Bell is treating Rain as an ally she wants to heal, Bell needs to be quick about it. The longer the time that passes after Rain recieves damage, the more it passes outside of Citron Call's time-limit. Bell simply can't fill her Special Gauge fast enough to reverse damage that Rain suffered over an hour ago.

Even if Bell reverses as much time as possible and then fills her Special Gauge back up, more time passed between uses of Citron Call, and Citron Call has to now reverse that time as well. There simply comes a point where changes happened too long ago for Lime Bell to effectively reverse.


It is not known if Citron Call's first mode can reverse changes such as spending Burst Points to level up or choosing one's level upgrade bonus, even if those changes are made within the attack's time-limit in a duel or the Unlimited Neutral Field.

If it could, Chiyuri could stage mock-duels with her friends to let them test out upgrades before truly committing to one, without needing to involve the Blue Dragon God's level-drain effect.


However, it is certain that Citron Call's first mode absolutely cannot reverse any effect or change that happened in a previous standard duel. If the end of the duel itself is not a hard cut-off point, the time difference means that even one second after a duel ends in the real world is 1000 seconds in the Accelerated World, which is obviously far beyond Citron Call's reach.

What is less certain is how Citron Call (Mode 1) interacts with [Death] in the Unlimited Neutral Field.

If [Death] cannot be reversed, it becomes a hard cut-off point. Any changes the target suffered or enjoyed before [Death] probably cannot be reversed, even after they respawn.

If [Death] CAN be reversed, Citron Call's potential is even more amazing than we knew. Not only could she resurrect fallen targets before the One Hour Resurrection Time is over, she could force resurrected enemies to [Die] again!

Of course, resurrecting a player would return the Burst Points they lost to the one who killed them, and forcing a player to die again would not cost them any more Burst Points.

However, if Lime Bell and her allies are trying to Endless Kill a target and find that an hour is not enough time to prepare, Bell can reverse the target's respawn in order to buy them a little more time.

As to using Citron Call to reverse [Death] for her allies, it must be noted that sometimes (when there's no immediate fight) it might actually be a better idea for her to let an ally remain [Dead], since they will be fully restored when the hour is over. This will take care of damage or negative changes that happened too long ago for Bell to effectively reverse.

However, if Bell was letting an ally stay dead for 30 minutes and enemies suddenly attack, too much time has passed for her to reverse [Death] and summon her ally back to help her fight. So, that's something to beware.


There is no way that Citron Call can reverse the [Final Death] of an avatar. Unlike a temporary death that leads to a respawn, the final death of an avatar would not leave behind a Remain Light to target. If Black Lotus is killed by another Level 9 player, Lime Bell cannot bring her back.

That is not to say that hope is lost when HP reaches zero. For the precious few seconds that a corpse remains to target, if [Death] can be reversed, [Final Death] can be denied. Whether or not floating pixels counts as a targetable corpse is unknown.



I'll cover Citron Call (Mode 2) in another post, or edit this one to include it. Right now, I have to go buy dog food.

Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2013-08-10 at 10:00.
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Old 2013-08-10, 10:35   Link #113
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I'm going to cover Citron Call (Mode 2) in a new post, since the last one was so large.

(I also editted the previous post to mention Mode 1's Special Gauge cost.)


Remember how I called Mode 1 a "reverse real-time over-time" attack? Well, Mode 2 is a "reverse abstract-time over-time attack".

I went on at length about how Mode 1 could not reverse effects from previous standard duels, or that had happened too far back for Mode 1 to reach. This is precisely the weakness that Mode 2 ignores.

Mode 2 basically works exactly like Mode 2, but it costs the ENTIRE, 100% full Special Gauge for a single activation. That's because it does something more than Mode 1 can accomplish.


Mode 2 is the form of Citron Call that Lime Bell used against Dusk Taker in his final duel against Silver Crow. It seemed to be just another use of the original Mode 1; Taker's HP returned, his SP vanished, and I think even his Enhanced Armaments were repaired.

If Mode 2 had seemed different from Mode 1, Dusk Taker definitely would have noticed and tried to dodge the rest of the beam's duration.


The additional function of Mode 2 is to rewind "each individual permanent change caused by external factors. Like Enhanced Armaments bought with points, or parts and techniques stolen from other avatars, it cancels those kinds of changes one by one."

If the target remains under the beam long enough, one permanent change is reversed. If the target remains under the beam for the full duration of the attack, three permament changes will be reversed.

This is "abstract time-reversal" -- reversal that doesn't care about how much real-time has passed since a thing happened, but rather only the abstract notions of "those things did happen" and "those things happened in that order".

So it didn't matter that Dusk Taker had stolen Silver Crow's Aviation a week ago in real life or a year ago in accelerated time. It only mattered that it HAD happened, and that there were not too many other permament changes that happened after it.


On that note, though he didn't realize it at the time, Dusk Taker lost the stolen Pyro Dealer before he lost the stolen wings, since he had stolen the projectile weapon after he stole the wings.

Dusk Taker failed to notice this because he didn't once have Pyro Dealer equipped in that fight. It wouldn't suddenly appear on his arm or disappear from it.

Just as Demonic Commandeer doesn't provide the victim a system alert that something has been stolen from their avatar, it apparently doesn't provide an alert to Dusk Taker when he takes something using that attack. (Why would it, since he knows that he's taken it?)


However, trading Enhanced Armaments works differently. Those specifically do involve system alerts asking if you really want to trade away or recieve the item.

So when Lime Bell targeted Sky Raker, who had recieved her Gale Thruster back from Silver Crow after trading it to him (two whole permament changes to Sky Raker's avatar), Silver Crow recieved a message asking if he wanted the Gale Thruster back.

Lime Bell warned Crow that he needed to reject the Gale Thruster. If he had taken it back, Citron Call would have stalled, unable to reverse "Sky Raker traded away the Gale Thruster" because the attack targeted Sky Raker. The attack would have no effect on Silver Crow, and so could not reverse "Silver Crow recieved the Gale Thruster".

It's possible that Lime Bell could have swept the beam onto Silver Crow to reverse the change even if he accepted the "trade", but that would have left less time on Mode 2's remaining duration, so Bell wouldn't be able to get the full effect on Sky Raker.


Now, it should be noted which permanent changes Mode 2 CANNOT effect. As Chiyuri says, it cannot reverse Level Ups. Even if it could reverse a Level Up that someone paid for within the last minute, Mode 1 could do that, so Mode 2 would be over-kill.

It also cannot reverse changes that were made permanent through the Incarnate System. This is why she could not restore Sky Raker's legs, which Fuuko herself unconsciously kept from growing back, and it's also why Lime Bell could not reverse the changes to the Armor of Disaster. This limitation might change if Chiyuri learns to use the Incarnate System for herself.

That's not to say that the normal modes of Citron Call are unable to rewind ANY changes caused through the Incarnate System. Lime Bell was able to revert Silver Crow back from Chrome Disaster status, after all, and damage caused by an Incarnate attack isn't different from normal damage.


It's unclear whether Mode 2 is capable of rewinding Level Upgrade choices.

It seems unlikely, as otherwise Takumu wouldn't need to consider facing the Blue Dragon Seiryu to re-spec Cyan Pile. He would only need to have Lime Bell blast away his Level 4, 3 and 2 choices.

But that assumes that Cyan Pile hasn't undergone any other permanent changes since he chose his Level 4 Upgrade. He might have bought at least one of some kind of non-Enhanced Armament item from Shops since then.


It bears noting that Lime Bell must be very careful about using Mode 2 on Black Lotus, lest she accidentally affect the Mystic Reins.

Just reversing one change would be fine, as it would return the Mystic Reigns to an item card that no one officially owns. But rewinding Lotus one step beyond that would return the reins to Sulphur Pot, and thus give back to the Acceleration Research Society a powerful weapon. And they're causing enough trouble with Metatron already.

Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2013-08-10 at 11:02.
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Old 2013-08-10, 10:50   Link #114
Tusjecht
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It is worth noting that for all the power imbued in Lime Bell's Citron Call I & II, Bell has never seemed to possess an offensive ability.

Oh, and V11.3 does have Fuuko mentioning that Lime Bell would have some potential replacing Maiden's place as the ICBM-pair tactic, due to the hardness of her body.

In other words, Lime Bell may have no potential left for a system-given offensive ability.
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Old 2013-08-10, 11:00   Link #115
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Lime Bell may have no potential left for a system-given offensive ability.
Is that any different from saying Silver Crow's wings left no potential for better hand-to-hand fighting ability, armor or any ranged attacks?

It's true that at Level 1, his avatar had no potential left for such things, but such things were exactly his choices for Level 2.


On the other hand, none of his choices featured anything like Citron Call, nor a close-range Enhanced Armament.

So, there is clearly a difference between starting potential (your abilities at Level 1) and theoretical potential (the range of abilities you can choose as you level up). (Also practical potential, which is the range of abilities you can actually have at one time.)

It may very well be that Lime Bell will never offer a direct-damage Special Attack as an option, but only upgrades to her armor or mobility, or new forms of tactical, indirect powers.


For example, Chiyuri might have the choice to ACCELERATE a target's time. This might cause them to take more damage from "damage-over-time" effects, or reduce the duration of certain effects or abilities (like a super-mode). It could also speed up respawn-time. Used in a duel, perhaps the ability could wind down the timing remaining in the duel.

Or she could gain a shield to hold in her other hand.

Or give her cape an alternate, grasshopper-wings mode which boosts her jumps and helps her run faster.
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Old 2013-08-10, 17:55   Link #116
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Didn't Lime Bell have a third ability gained in Vol 12? Acrostic Summon??
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Old 2013-08-10, 18:49   Link #117
Sunder the Gold
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Didn't Lime Bell have a third ability gained in Vol 12? Acrostic Summon??
So I've heard, but I haven't read that book, so I don't know the particulars.


Oh, I remembered another potential application of "fast-forwarding" someone's time - reducing the cool-down on their gadgets. Letting Cyan Pile use his Pile Driver sooner after a shot, for example, or recharging the Gale Thruster so Sky Raker doesn't need to use mind-power in a normal match.
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Old 2013-10-24, 19:13   Link #118
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Chiyuri finally used IS in Vol 15. She learned on her own. Her IS ability is call "Bonds of Friendship". I forgot what it does, but she got exhausted afterward.
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Old 2013-10-25, 20:16   Link #119
Tusjecht
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It's not called "Bonds Of Friendship," you're misquoting Flere. It was the feelings of loving her friends to the bottom of her heart that gave rise to and fuelled her IS, whatever name it's been given.

Do note that it was a circumstantial occurence, not a trained technique. That is to say, bearing similarities to how Chrome Falcon activated Negative IS in the midst of intense rage and despair, Bell activated her unnamed IS ability through sheer overwhelming feelings, and not through any kind of training like Takumu, Haruyuki, or the Kings had undergone.
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Old 2013-10-25, 21:56   Link #120
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Bell is starting to become more and more surprising and interesting through the Volume. Also thanks bringing up Chrome Falcon. Falcon become the Disaster through the Negative IS, makes you think if Bell will undergo something similar to Falcon with her IS.

Last edited by tuckersister; 2013-10-26 at 09:01.
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