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Old 2012-07-20, 14:50   Link #501
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Hmm, I honestly think that having an episode end with Kirito revealing Heathcliff would make for a nice cliffhanger and then the next episode they could do the final battle and the aftermath.
And ends with Kirito learning Asuna is still in a Coma.
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Old 2012-07-20, 14:58   Link #502
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And ends with Kirito learning Asuna is still in a Coma.
2 Cliff hangers? The suspense would kill. XD
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Old 2012-07-20, 15:07   Link #503
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
And ends with Kirito learning Asuna is still in a Coma.
Hmm, you could just go with him struggling to walk like the novel did, though it would keep propelling things if you ended with him finding out and all.

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2 Cliff hangers? The suspense would kill. XD
And get people to definitely tune in, though most of us probably would anyway.
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Old 2012-07-20, 15:30   Link #504
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Hmm, you could just go with him struggling to walk like the novel did, though it would keep propelling things if you ended with him finding out and all.
the struggle to walk would be in the start of ALO. Ending SAO with news that Asuna didn't wake would be evilly good, especially if there is a wait between 1st and 2nd season.
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Old 2012-07-20, 21:47   Link #505
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Hmm, I honestly think that having an episode end with Kirito revealing Heathcliff would make for a nice cliffhanger and then the next episode they could do the final battle and the aftermath.
Yeah, that's such a perfect cliffhanger I can't imagine the writers passing it up. The only question is, do they end with Kirito swinging at Heathcliff for no apparent reason, or do they show the "Immortal Object" pop-up?
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Old 2012-07-21, 00:58   Link #506
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
the struggle to walk would be in the start of ALO. Ending SAO with news that Asuna didn't wake would be evilly good, especially if there is a wait between 1st and 2nd season.
Hmm, I wonder if there will be any sort of downtime between them. I can't think of any reason for it, but it could happen I guess.

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Yeah, that's such a perfect cliffhanger I can't imagine the writers passing it up. The only question is, do they end with Kirito swinging at Heathcliff for no apparent reason, or do they show the "Immortal Object" pop-up?
I was sort of thinking when he names him as Kayaba, but both of those moments work as well. If you show Kirito's thoughts observing Heathcliff, then have the attack after the realization as the end, then that would be cool. But the Immortal Object pop-up is good for a WTF moment, though it might not be extremely apparent just what that means to anyone unfamiliar with why that's odd.

I wonder how they'll do the realization with the way Heathcliff looks at everyone.
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Old 2012-07-21, 20:41   Link #507
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Inb4 Rina Hidaka will use her "onii-chan" voice from Accel world next week lol.
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Old 2012-07-21, 22:19   Link #508
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I'm half wondering now if those KiritoXAsuna scenes in the opening are there because they won't actually be in the plot. Which would be silly given that those moments are important, but at this rate it wouldn't surprise me.

If this part of things is rushed, I can't even imagine how much Fairy Dance will be. Though I guess that at least follows a set timeline.

I still don't know why it would have been so hard to just make this series 24-25 episodes in the Aincrad. Maybe there was simply no guarantee they would get a chance to do the other arc or something?
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Old 2012-07-21, 23:18   Link #509
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I still don't know why it would have been so hard to just make this series 24-25 episodes in the Aincrad. Maybe there was simply no guarantee they would get a chance to do the other arc or something?
You're speaking from the perspective of a fan. When you get down to it, I think it's important to take into account the perspective of the whole story.

There isn't enough material to properly adapt Aincrad in 24-25 episodes unless you threw in some filler. And even then, some stories like First Day, Rondo, etc... is written without actually meshing well with the core story of SAO vol.1, so there's missing pieces in the large scheme of things.

Another would be whether or not it makes sense to adapt some stories in their entirety, or whether or not to expand it accordingly. Like I said, I believed that the adaption of Aria 'made sense' given the context of the what it felt like they were going for at the time. It may not had been the 'best choice', but it was a decision that I felt was done rationally.

On the other hand, RDR was the kind of material, that despite being shorter than Aria in the novels, didn't work well in an episodic context due to the fact the source material was written in a way that captured the piece of the story like a flashback, told in fragmentary pieces.

I compare it akin to that of Berserk.

Spoiler for Berserk anime/manga:


And what you said is also true, given that there's always a risk that SAO wouldn't sell well enough for a 13 episode ALO sequel. Some will disagree with me on this, but it remains my opinion that if FD isn't going to be animated, SAO itself loses a large part of its meaning.

And no, don't tell me that FD's ending could very well be rewritten into SAO or something like that. We're not the authors and thus we have no license to change how the key story's going to be told.
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Old 2012-07-21, 23:33   Link #510
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You're speaking from the perspective of a fan. When you get down to it, I think it's important to take into account the perspective of the whole story.

There isn't enough material to properly adapt Aincrad in 24-25 episodes unless you threw in some filler. And even then, some stories like First Day, Rondo, etc... is written without actually meshing well with the core story of SAO vol.1, so there's missing pieces in the large scheme of things.

Another would be whether or not it makes sense to adapt some stories in their entirety, or whether or not to expand it accordingly. Like I said, I believed that the adaption of Aria 'made sense' given the context of the what it felt like they were going for at the time. It may not had been the 'best choice', but it was a decision that I felt was done rationally.

On the other hand, RDR was the kind of material, that despite being shorter than Aria in the novels, didn't work well in an episodic context due to the fact the source material was written in a way that captured the piece of the story like a flashback, told in fragmentary pieces.

I compare it akin to that of Berserk.

Spoiler for Berserk anime/manga:


And what you said is also true, given that there's always a risk that SAO wouldn't sell well enough for a 13 episode ALO sequel. Some will disagree with me on this, but it remains my opinion that if FD isn't going to be animated, SAO itself loses a large part of its meaning.

And no, don't tell me that FD's ending could very well be rewritten into SAO or something like that. We're not the authors and thus we have no license to change how the key story's going to be told.
Yes, I know. I don't know all the ins and outs of development.

I have considered that since when I was considering how many episodes I thought it might take, it didn't even come to 20 which would be an incredibly odd place to start a whole new arc for a few episodes then just leave it. I agree about Aria in particular as while I do like how it sort of explains in more detail the whole Beater hatred and such, it seems a bit odd given how it doesn't really come up in the original novels at all as their first meeting.

I've watched episode 2 again and while I do still have issues with it, it did answer the aspect I thought was most important in the scheme of things.

I'm still wondering if a better approach might have been to have Kirito tell Asuna about the Black Cats per the first volume and then do some sort of flashback episode detailing what he wasn't telling her and why this affected him so much.

You're speaking of the short series from some time back, I take it? Now that new movie they made for the series recently, correct? I have seen neither, but know about the general story including the big game change part.

I'm not done with FD yet, but I do see it as important as while it does have the whole rescue angle it also deals to a degree with the aftermath for everyone in the real world after the event.

Oh, I don't think that by any means.
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Old 2012-07-21, 23:48   Link #511
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I'm still wondering if a better approach might have been to have Kirito tell Asuna about the Black Cats per the first volume and then do some sort of flashback episode detailing what he wasn't telling her and why this affected him so much.
I still feel the better approach would be something like this :

Ep2 : Aria
Ep3 : Black Swordsman ( however, during his moments with Scilica, have very short & purposely ambiguous flashback moments to Sachi, RDR, etc )

Repeat those parts accordingly throughout the various moments that Kirito met a situation that reminds him of those times ( the time with Liz, etc ) culminating in a 'narrating flashback storytelling' of RDR in that episode where Kirito explained what happened to Asuna.

I felt that something like that would've been the best way to tell RDR in just one episode (I'm placing an artificial gap towards the amount of time allocated to RDR, because to be fair, we need to work in consideration of what the animation team is limited to as well ). The focus would've become answering the mystery behind Kirito's solo and almost-death welcoming attitude, and it would've made sense for the flashback to be fast-paced because Kirito is only telling the parts that mattered.

We would've also already known Kirito long enough as a character to at least be able to understand why it affected him badly and why he did what he did without resorting to internal monologues.

In that way, even if we don't feel for Sachi, Keita, etc... we would had 'felt' for Kirito.

And that's the important part.

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I'm not done with FD yet, but I do see it as important as while it does have the whole rescue angle it also deals to a degree with the aftermath for everyone in the real world after the event.

Oh, I don't think that by any means.
Thanks. :3
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Old 2012-07-21, 23:58   Link #512
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I still feel the better approach would be something like this :

Ep2 : Aria
Ep3 : Black Swordsman ( however, during his moments with Scilica, have very short & purposely ambiguous flashback moments to Sachi, RDR, etc )

Repeat those parts accordingly throughout the various moments that Kirito met a situation that reminds him of those times ( the time with Liz, etc ) culminating in a 'narrating flashback storytelling' of RDR in that episode where Kirito explained what happened to Asuna.

I felt that something like that would've been the best way to tell RDR in just one episode. The focus would've become answering the mystery behind Kirito's attitude, and it would've made sense for the flashback to be fast-paced because Kirito is only telling the parts that mattered.

We would've also already known Kirito long enough as a character to at least be able to understand why it affected him badly and why he did what he did without resorting to internal monologues.

In that way, even if we don't feel for Sachi, Keita, etc... we would had 'felt' for Kirito.

And that's the important part.



Thanks. :3
That sounds like it would have been an excellent approach to the whole thing as it also serves to build it up to some extent. And it's not like that isn't a new approach or anything. I wonder why they didn't take any sort of approach like that, though if they really are focused on keeping it chronological then I guess it would happen no matter what.

Wait, does that mean we likely won't see the main story of the first novel until around episode 7 if my guess is correct? Next episodes would be Murder Case, Sicilia, and Liz and then we start the main one?

I guess we'll just have to chalk it up to what could have been. Just have to focus on the next episodes and see how they start to handle the main storyline and such. Still, I can't help but think that no matter what happens, the show could have been better.

But really, what do the makers of the show care for me and my opinion?

Oh, for what? I don't think I did anything.
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Old 2012-07-22, 01:32   Link #513
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Next Episode, let the healing begin. If Black Swordsman is judged as a touching episode about healing and redemption and Kirito being a Badass, it succeeds.

Hopefully, Murder would be two episodes (5 and 6, else it'll be very rushed), and Warmth the seventh. The main plot would then be 8.

And I do agree that Nightingale's approach would have worked better.
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Old 2012-07-22, 02:00   Link #514
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Wait, does that mean we likely won't see the main story of the first novel until around episode 7 if my guess is correct? Next episodes would be Murder Case, Sicilia, and Liz and then we start the main one?
I don't know. We'll just have to wait & see, but I really don't want Warmth of the Heart to be chronologically adapted for... various reasons, even considering that we'll never see the last part of WoH animated, ever.

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Oh, for what? I don't think I did anything.
If you go few pages back, you'll see myself discussing an aspect of FD that I found really uncomfortable to debate about, and I don't really like to see that topic brought up again.
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Old 2012-07-22, 02:35   Link #515
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New episode wasn't too bad, though I'd think a well-made AMV might be able to convey the episode better than this episode had in comparison with the LN
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Old 2012-07-22, 03:33   Link #516
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Ep 3 thoughts : Pretty much the opposite of ep2. It was a good adaption, but a not-so-good episode. Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely liked ep3... bur it didn't feel as well-contained as Aria did as a chronological story-piece for Kirito.

Ep3 felt way too much like a side-story that they decided to cram in as a chronological story.

Overall my view of RDR is pretty much the same as both a novel-reader & anime-perspective viewer. It did what needed to be done, but it was ultimately too subdued imo. A-1 wasn't sadistic enough.
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Old 2012-07-22, 03:40   Link #517
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Ep 3 thoughts : Pretty much the opposite of ep2. It was a good adaption, but a not-so-good episode. Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely liked ep3... bur it didn't feel as well-contained as Aria did as a chronological story-piece for Kirito.

Ep3 felt way too much like a side-story that they decided to cram in as a chronological story.

Overall my view of RDR is pretty much the same as both a novel-reader & anime-perspective viewer. It did what needed to be done, but it was ultimately too subdued imo. A-1 wasn't sadistic enough.
If you the whole talking about what Kirirto thought in his head when klain stood in his and told him to party with him and his group "lets kill them" and the whole thing after Kirito beat Nick and found out the Item was useless to him and threw a fit and crying in anguish , then yeah your right.
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Old 2012-07-22, 03:50   Link #518
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If you the whole talking about what Kirirto thought in his head when klain stood in his and told him to party with him and his group "lets kill them" and the whole thing after Kirito beat Nick and found out the Item was useless to him and threw a fit and crying in anguish , then yeah your right.
It's not even really about being sadistic. I mean, ultimately I felt that it was a good adaption.

But even though it was a good adaption (imo), it didn't really do very well at the 'heart-tugging scale' due to the fact that it was fast-paced.

For an episode meant to tug at your heartstrings, built upon the emotional suffering of a person who had lost important friends and believing it to be his own fault.... it needs to be a bit more cruel to the person, visually.

I mean, the only signs of suffering that we saw in ep3 was Kirito's silent sobbing, the Black Cat's death, his dead-eyes after finding the revive item, and some internal monologue. That's way too nice.

He needed to have 2 or more of the following :

- the ' dead-man's walk from the dungeon, muddied and bloody as the only survivor'
( okay, this wasn't realistic since dirt doesn't really happen, and Kirito probably teleported back, but you get my drift )

- the 'dead man's fit-of-anguish/anger ( didn't make the cut, unfortunately )

Basically all the tropes and moments famed to the Death Seeker character-type.

I know Kirito in the story itself didn't exhibit too much emotions ( aside from the fit-of-anguish ) because he was bottling it in, but that's why the anime needed to take some degree of liberty to express those emotions more strongly.
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Old 2012-07-22, 05:01   Link #519
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It's not even really about being sadistic. I mean, ultimately I felt that it was a good adaption.

But even though it was a good adaption (imo), it didn't really do very well at the 'heart-tugging scale' due to the fact that it was fast-paced.

For an episode meant to tug at your heartstrings, built upon the emotional suffering of a person who had lost important friends and believing it to be his own fault.... it needs to be a bit more cruel to the person, visually.

I mean, the only signs of suffering that we saw in ep3 was Kirito's silent sobbing, the Black Cat's death, his dead-eyes after finding the revive item, and some internal monologue. That's way too nice.

He needed to have 2 or more of the following :

- the ' dead-man's walk from the dungeon, muddied and bloody as the only survivor'
( okay, this wasn't realistic since dirt doesn't really happen, and Kirito probably teleported back, but you get my drift )

- the 'dead man's fit-of-anguish/anger ( didn't make the cut, unfortunately )

Basically all the tropes and moments famed to the Death Seeker character-type.

I know Kirito in the story itself didn't exhibit too much emotions ( aside from the fit-of-anguish ) because he was bottling it in, but that's why the anime needed to take some degree of liberty to express those emotions more strongly.
I completely agreed. I think you and I are maybe of the same Opinion.
To have do this Episode better they should have cut the OP even a 1:30 would have possibly made it better.
Or at the least added one of those 2 scenes or both depending.
Another scene that I felt should have shown little more emotion was the moment Kirito saw Keita jump off. There was in my Opinion a need for a little emotion on Kirito's face.
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Old 2012-07-22, 05:04   Link #520
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To have do this Episode better they should have cut the OP even a 1:30 would have possibly made it better.
Or take out the normal ED, and have Sachi's singing as the ED, which will also free up some screen time for other stuff.
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