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Old 2013-06-05, 20:09   Link #3401
saravis
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Originally Posted by shalala View Post
Sooooooo next we're going to find out that Juha was the one that made Aizen and that every is all going to plan. Soo why is hichigo his shinigami powers and not his hollow powers instead? Also is Old man Zetsu part of Juha? Because if so then Juha has got buckets of Intel from all the battles that Ichigo has had with the Shinigami soo that could explain how he was able to make bankai stealing devices.
Except Ichigo never saw Yama's bankai and I'm pretty sure he never saw Soi's bankai either.
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Old 2013-06-05, 20:30   Link #3402
amaterasu4
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Oh yeah, now I remember something. When training with Urahara, Ichigo became a Shinigami by finding Zangetsu within his soul. He managed to find it since according to Ishida the Shinigami's energy was red. How will Zangetsu Bach explain that?
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Old 2013-06-05, 20:35   Link #3403
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One thing is for sure ..... Never sow that one coming. Would be interesting whats gonna happen now
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Old 2013-06-05, 20:42   Link #3404
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by ser4 View Post
One thing is for sure ..... Never sow that one coming. Would be interesting whats gonna happen now
i'm pretty sure nobody saw it coming because it doesn't make sense
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Old 2013-06-05, 20:44   Link #3405
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Oh yeah, now I remember something. When training with Urahara, Ichigo became a Shinigami by finding Zangetsu within his soul. He managed to find it since according to Ishida the Shinigami's energy was red. How will Zangetsu Bach explain that?
He heard Ishida say that, so he painted his energy red. Quincy can paint energy, right?
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Old 2013-06-05, 20:48   Link #3406
Chiaki_chan
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Zangetsu Still remain on within Ichigo or so after Oetsu forge the zanpakuto zangetsu Ichigo chase it?

and if it will cause zangetsu is probably Ichigo use again if power is sure but I think that Ichigo can not suporter to keep him after this revelation Zangetsu as Ichigo hate Ywach ..... am I right?
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Old 2013-06-05, 20:51   Link #3407
saravis
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
He heard Ishida say that, so he painted his energy red. Quincy can paint energy, right?
He'll likely reveal Bach to have been a Shinigami.
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Old 2013-06-05, 21:39   Link #3408
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Ohhhh snap.
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Old 2013-06-05, 22:39   Link #3409
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Oh yeah, now I remember something. When training with Urahara, Ichigo became a Shinigami by finding Zangetsu within his soul. He managed to find it since according to Ishida the Shinigami's energy was red. How will Zangetsu Bach explain that?
I think that scene makes a lot more sense now that we know that guy isn't related to Ichigo's shinigami powers.

I mean the whole point of that exercise was for Ichigo to find the shinigami powers in his soul. In hindsight it didn't actually make any sense for his shinigami powers to already be roaming around and talking to him if the whole reason he went there was to unlock them. That was also the only time Ichigo went into his soul without meeting Zangetsu, probably because he was still in his sword form.

Still, it creates more questions than it answers.
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Old 2013-06-05, 23:47   Link #3410
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So that whole scene where Urahara forced his sword spirit out and he had to fight it to get his bankai makes no sense now. It should have forced out White not "Zangetsu."
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Old 2013-06-06, 00:26   Link #3411
Chiisai Kuma
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Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
You know that joke I made about a Red Wedding?

I'm serious. I absolutely believe Kubo would pull something like that to kill off characters just because.

Way to go, you fucking POS author. You're offically the worst author I have ever seriously read. Not even Meyer or 50 Shades Lady retconned EVERYTHING FROM THE BEGINNING to make the MC so damn special.
i wish the reputation system still worked, but this is the best I can do for now
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Old 2013-06-06, 00:31   Link #3412
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Originally Posted by SimplyAJ View Post
So that whole scene where Urahara forced his sword spirit out and he had to fight it to get his bankai makes no sense now. It should have forced out White not "Zangetsu."

Isshin said his powers were sealing "white" up until the moment that his hollow powers started to awaken. The first major indication of this was when Hichigo appeared during the Byakuya fight, which was after the sword spirit thing. So White was still sealed then.
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Old 2013-06-06, 04:10   Link #3413
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Frankly I gave up taking any of Kubo's plot twists or anything else seriously years and years ago. I'm only reading now because I just wana see it through till the end and what not. So aside from the twist which I thought was like all his other twists, meh, fine, next chapter.

What I loved though was the blonde twintail girl. She's exactly my type. I better get to see more of her.
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Old 2013-06-06, 08:59   Link #3414
Bakaizer
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i like the plot twist though


LET THE BLEACH WORD WAR BEGIN

QUINCIES vs Gotei 13 and zero squad

with AIZEN and the Arrancars involved
(the question is how will they fit into this arc
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Old 2013-06-06, 09:11   Link #3415
Solace
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i'm pretty sure nobody saw it coming because it doesn't make sense
It makes perfect sense. I'm not sure where all the rage comes from (well, some people will never be happy I guess). This ties together a lot of stuff from years past that didn't quite make sense. With this arc and this particular revelation, it all falls into place. The only question left is "what" Zangetsu is. Is he just a reflection, a piece of the past stuck in Ichigo's soul? Is he symbolic of the Quincy power? Is he a missing piece that Juha needs/wants back? Hollow Ichigo knew what he was, so all that's left is explaining it to the reader. I'm guessing we'll get another Inner World scene when the sword is complete to answer the final questions.
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Old 2013-06-06, 09:25   Link #3416
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It makes perfect sense. I'm not sure where all the rage comes from (well, some people will never be happy I guess). This ties together a lot of stuff from years past that didn't quite make sense. With this arc and this particular revelation, it all falls into place. The only question left is "what" Zangetsu is. Is he just a reflection, a piece of the past stuck in Ichigo's soul? Is he symbolic of the Quincy power? Is he a missing piece that Juha needs/wants back? Hollow Ichigo knew what he was, so all that's left is explaining it to the reader. I'm guessing we'll get another Inner World scene when the sword is complete to answer the final questions.
What a fresh response this is. But yeah, I don't know why people are complaining about this when we don't even have the full picture of what this is yet.
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Old 2013-06-06, 09:57   Link #3417
Solace
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
What a fresh response this is. But yeah, I don't know why people are complaining about this when we don't even have the full picture of what this is yet.
Personally I think the issue is that it took too long to get to this point. Bleach has been going on for years now, but if you step back a bit it's easy to notice the plot isn't really that deep and could have been told in a shorter time. The title has definitely fallen victim to some of the worst Shounen tropes: overly long battles, a massive cast, rushed plot points, convoluted power systems, and tons of plot armor. These things damage what is a fairly unique story concept. I blame part of that on the publisher, who likely pressures the writers of its popular stories to drag things out a bit for more profit.

Had things been more focused: shorter, more decisive battles, a smaller more focused cast, more time spent on plot than empty panels, a more balanced and understandable power system, and less plot armor.....I don't think as much criticism would exist. The anime didn't help either, with some awful fillers and poorly written original characters. No one liked the Mod Souls.

And even with Ichigo's past finally being revealed, there is still so much left that isn't resolved in the rest of the story, and some of it will probably never be explained....or simply retconned into or out of the story if it is touched.

But for me personally, I'm just along for the ride. Bleach isn't and never pretended to be something deep or complex, it's just a fighting manga with some neat concepts. So some of the plot isn't told very well, or the dialogue kinda stinks. Those issues plague a lot of stories, even ones people hold up very high, like Dragonball. I'd rather just enjoy it for what it is, than lament what it isn't. It's not worth getting so angry as such a trivial thing in life.
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Old 2013-06-06, 10:07   Link #3418
Master Chibi
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It's worth getting angry over. I mean no one's making a vendetta out for the author but don't go bringing your own philosophical merits to negate other people being angry / disliking what this series has turned into. Truthfully I don't see that as a valid point for your own actions on it either.

And yes, if they've stuck around this long none of this nonsense should be surprising and it's of their own accord to deal with it all (even with reasons you listed, being pushed by the publisher for example) that doesn't one shouldn't keep from getting angry over it.

Hell, I think letting out steam by getting angry over it is healthier lol.

:P
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Old 2013-06-06, 10:59   Link #3419
itachi-san314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It makes perfect sense. I'm not sure where all the rage comes from (well, some people will never be happy I guess). This ties together a lot of stuff from years past that didn't quite make sense. With this arc and this particular revelation, it all falls into place. The only question left is "what" Zangetsu is. Is he just a reflection, a piece of the past stuck in Ichigo's soul? Is he symbolic of the Quincy power? Is he a missing piece that Juha needs/wants back? Hollow Ichigo knew what he was, so all that's left is explaining it to the reader. I'm guessing we'll get another Inner World scene when the sword is complete to answer the final questions.
just saying it makes sense, doesn't make it true. i can't help but notice that not a single part of your post clarifies anything about zangetsu. also, if it all winds up making some sort of convoluted sense in the end, there is a thing called over-complication. ichigo's powers are excessively over-complicated. it's horrible writing to tie him into essentially every possible power in the series. kubo would have been better off making his power like peter petrelli in heroes where he is able to mimic and use the powers of anyone around him. this whole birth, aizen, bach implantation angle is ridiculously complex and implausible and negates a lot of what happened in the past involving ichigo's shinigami-ness and bankai. it also keeps making the CC and SS seem like bigger idiots for not knowing/figuring out any of this stuff.
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Old 2013-06-06, 11:26   Link #3420
Solace
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Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
It's worth getting angry over. I mean no one's making a vendetta out for the author but don't go bringing your own philosophical merits to negate other people being angry / disliking what this series has turned into. Truthfully I don't see that as a valid point for your own actions on it either.

And yes, if they've stuck around this long none of this nonsense should be surprising and it's of their own accord to deal with it all (even with reasons you listed, being pushed by the publisher for example) that doesn't one shouldn't keep from getting angry over it.

Hell, I think letting out steam by getting angry over it is healthier lol.

:P
Are you joking? Every update has people flying into hyperbolic fits about Bleach being awful and Kubo being the worst writer since ever. I've seen the angry shit people have been spewing out for years. It gets old.

Who said I'm negating anything? I offered my thoughts on why people didn't like it. I never said people had to agree with it, and clearly you don't. But you know what does get tiring? The same people who show up for what is now years saying the same thing: "Oh, new chapter/episode, yup it's still shit and you should all feel bad for liking it." Over, and over, and over again.

You say it's venting? I say go find a pillow and scream in it. Spare the rest of us the fury of an old man yelling at a cloud.

I have no problem with people not liking things. I've vented about stuff, Bleach included, in the past. But I swear some people make it a hobby to continue to read/watch something they clearly don't enjoy just to let everyone else know how much they don't enjoy it. It's annoying to say the least.

It's really not healthy to have so much anger about something so trivial for so long. There are more important things in life that deserve such passion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314
just saying it makes sense, doesn't make it true. i can't help but notice that not a single part of your post clarifies anything about zangetsu. also, if it all winds up making some sort of convoluted sense in the end, there is a thing called over-complication. ichigo's powers are excessively over-complicated. it's horrible writing to tie him into essentially every possible power in the series. kubo would have been better off making his power like peter petrelli in heroes where he is able to mimic and use the powers of anyone around him. this whole birth, aizen, bach implantation angle is ridiculously complex and implausible and negates a lot of what happened in the past involving ichigo's shinigami-ness and bankai. it also keeps making the CC and SS seem like bigger idiots for not knowing/figuring out any of this stuff.
Here, someone put this together in the RC comments:

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2...0452059441.jpg

It doesn't "negate" or "overly complicate" anything:

1. Aizen knew that Ichigo's Hollow side came from his experiments. He also knew Ichigo's life because he was monitoring his progress the whole time.

2. Urahara knew that Ichigo was a mixed breed because he was there when it happened and knew how it worked due to his own involvement with Hollowfication.

3. The CC and SS are idiots, but who ever argued they weren't? Even the story itself highlights their incompetence from time to time. In many cases, even when they had competence, they undid it with arrogance and ignorance/indifference.

You claim it's horrible writing to have him have all these powers, but wouldn't it be equally horrible if he was able to mimic abilities? Wouldn't that be even more hax, on the level of Aizen's hypnosis? It's hilarious you mention Heroes, which became incredibly convoluted and ridiculous as the story progressed. They couldn't even be bothered to conclude it, as the show was cancelled.
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