[MANGA] Bleach Weekly Chapter 500+ Discussion

[GusGus]

Originally Posted by flowarvin

it makes byakuya sound like a wuss, the whole character development of byakuya we use to is totally changed, the man who highly put his pride and honor first is like totally changed in this 1 chapter, which totally come to ask, is this byakuya we come to know all this years hmmmm

I think that's the whole point. He finds himself and SS in such a bad situation that he has no more choice than eat his pride and ask Ichigo for help.

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by GusGus

Oh you're allowed, I never said the contrary. You should improve your reading comprehension skills.

Being able to detect sarcasm is a comprehensive reading skill. Apparently you lack it. Or maybe you couldn’t come up with anything ‘snappier’ to say and tried to demean my intellect. Well, aren’t you just original?

Anyway, this is getting off topic. I really don’t care all that much what your opinion is but don’t try to degrade my intelligence. I understood what mix message you were trying to get across with your last post but to me all I heard was, “The best opinion is no opinion at all.” The people of this forum will most likely be negative the majority of the time because of how hard Kubo trolls his readers, but we continue to read because we like Bleach. We can be upset and angry at something and still like it. We vent on the forums because we care about this series. If you can’t understand that than maybe you're at the wrong forum.

[solidguy]

aizen is uryu's real dad. calling it now

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I can't tell if you're joking or not...

all of what you mentioned as not happening will certainly happen. It's true that Yama-jii is probably the only named character to die so far in this arc.

Oh, how quickly we forget about poor, poor Choujiro. But yeah, Yamamoto's joining his lieutenant. Byakuya and Kenpachi are the only other captain's shown in danger of death atm. Really, it seems more like Kenpachi is just KO'd. Byakuya's in really bad shape, but close to death might as well be a clean bill of health in Bleach. I can't remember the last character to die slowly from losing too much blood.

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

Not really. Byakuya changed the moment he accepted her feelings for Rukia (or more like the moment he met Ichigo). And I really thought that his current action follows his true self, not the fake one he was trying to show before he met Ichigo.

I also thought it was really fitting for his character. It showed that when it comes down to it, he cares more about protecting Soul Society than honor or nobility. Of course, if he lives, he deny all that.

[Poetic Justice]

Is Ichigo gonna have to fight all these guys?

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I also thought it was really fitting for his character. It showed that when it comes down to it, he cares more about protecting Soul Society than honor or nobility. Of course, if he lives, he deny all that.

I agree. It shows that his character has grown over the series, but I actually think that Byakuya will thank Ichigo, once everything is said and done. He might have to do it behind closed doors, but I can see him being grateful to Ichigo for taking care of a situation where he was easily subdued.

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Is Ichigo gonna have to fight all these guys?

Well, Juha Bach said that they were going to retreat, I don't know if that entails the nameless Quincies wrecking up the place. I kind of doubt it, but then it wouldn't make sense to have all of your putties continuing the fight when the "Zero Squad" is supposed to appear. Then again, we're talking about a villain who has killed his own followers, so I think anything goes.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Oh, how quickly we forget about poor, poor Choujiro. But yeah, Yamamoto's joining his lieutenant.

i guess i can reluctantly accept that choujiro is a named character

he's slightly above a fodder shinigami being named right before being cut down i suppose

[Linkark07]

I wonder if Juha Bach can steal Ichigo's bankai.

[Marcus H.]

^ Well, technically, Ichigo shouldn't have a bankai to begin with since he has broken off his ties with Zangetsu when he went Mugetsu. (i.e., what we see right now is not a standard Bankai that a Shinigami usually has, so we are not sure if his Bankai is qualified for theft by those Quincy.)

[Alchemist007]

Chances of loli quincy falling for Ichigo?

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

^ Well, technically, Ichigo shouldn't have a bankai to begin with since he has broken off his ties with Zangetsu when he went Mugetsu. (i.e., what we see right now is not a standard Bankai that a Shinigami usually has, so we are not sure if his Bankai is qualified for theft by those Quincy.)

Aww, what the heck. I know I previously stated that I don't intend on debating this point, but I think I'm feeling more in the mood now.

Ichigo was indeed confirmed to have retained and reawakened shiniagmi powers during the fullbring arc. So it remains within the realm of possibility that Zangetsu didn't go anywhere (since he's the manifestation of those very powers). When Zangetsu stated that using FGT would cut ties with him, he may have only been referring to the consequent loss of Ichigo's reiatsu and shinigami powers having not known at the time that Ichigo would eventually reawaken that latent energy. What I'm basically suggesting is that either Zangetsu may have been wrong (when you consider the circumstances under which he made those statements), or we may have drawn two different interpretations of Zangetu's words and what they mean for Ichigo's powers.

I know I've stated this before, but I think it remains equally possible that Ichigo's bankai can't be stolen for the same reason why no one but Juha Bach could steal Yamamoto's bankai--There isn't anyone who's spiritual energy is powerful enough to accomplish the task.

[Marcus H.]

If Ichigo has Zangetsu right now, why hasn't he talked with him yet?

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

If Ichigo has Zangetsu right now, why hasn't he talked with him yet?

Because we have to fight the main boss at least once before we get to resolve an inner conflict/training session!

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

If Ichigo has Zangetsu right now, why hasn't he talked with him yet?

Bassoonicmayhem kind of alluded to the answer I was going to give. We only see him talk to Zangetsu when he's in a major bind. Ever since Ichigo's regained his shinigami powers from Rukia and co., he's had an easy time against the enemies he's faced up until he got trapped in that cage. (And who knows what happened while he was in there?)

Instead, a question I would pose is why hasn't Ichigo yet to notice or state anything weird about using getsuga tenshou & bankai without being able to feel Zangetsu's presence--assuming Zangetsu really is gone forever? And how could a hollow-based power (such as fullbring) be able to manifest shinigami-based abilities? Thanks to Kubo's interviews, we also know that Ichigo has now resumed his substitute related duties (such as performing konso's). So if we assume that Ichigo is using pseudo shinigami abilities born from hollow powers, could his zanpakuto still send lost souls off to Soul Society or purify the souls of hollows?

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by sayde

Instead, a question I would pose is why hasn't Ichigo yet to notice or state anything weird about using getsuga tenshou & bankai without being able to feel Zangetsu's presence--assuming Zangetsu really is gone forever? And how could a hollow-based power (such as fullbring) be able to manifest shinigami-based abilities? Thanks to Kubo's interviews, we also know that Ichigo has now resumed his substitute related duties (such as performing konso's). So if we assume that Ichigo is using pseudo shinigami abilities born from hollow powers, could his zanpakuto still send lost souls off to Soul Society or purify the souls of hollows?

I don’t really think it’s all that complicated. Ichigo has always had a hard time getting in touch with his shinigami powers. I’m pretty sure it took eight books before he learned Zangetsu’s name (correct me if I’m wrong—I’m doing this based on memory). Also, you have to take into account that Ichigo was human before he was a shinigami, vizored, fullbringer, ext. I've always pictured the souls in the Bleach universe in a Yin and Yang scenario. Where people (humans and shinigami) are inherently born with both yin (hollow) and yang (normal soul). Those who are aware of those powers can exploit them (fullbringers) and some will have to change once the balance beings to shift unevenly (visoreds). To me, Ichigo would always have hollow powers just because it's seemingly in human (and shinigami) nature. Since his father was a shinigami though, it kind of added to Ichigo's favor (in my weird system). And because Isshin was able to regain his powers, what would stop Ichigo from eventually regaining his (since he's apparently half-in-half)?

Also, I’ve always been under the impression that Ichigo got Zangetsu’s powers back when he did the fullbringer training. (That was the deal, wasn’t it? I know it was all some sort of backwards trick that failed, but please, correct me if I’m wrong.) He just hasn’t got in touch with this new version of Zangetsu because he hasn't been in a situation dire enough (or we will flashback to the cage). And yes, I do think Zangetsu will get another face lift. Why? I’m not entirely sure. Probably because of the fullbringer training, but I’m not really questioning the fact how Ichigo is using the sword--I thought that was the reason why we had the last arc.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem

I don’t really think it’s all that complicated. Ichigo has always had a hard time getting in touch with his shinigami powers. I’m pretty sure it took eight books before he learned Zangetsu’s name (correct me if I’m wrong—I’m doing this based on memory).

Ichigo's always had a hard time taking complete control over his power. But getting in touch with and communicating with zangetsu was something he had to master in order to learn bankai. I've got nothing else to say in regards to your other points.

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by sayde

Ichigo's always had a hard time taking complete control over his power. But getting in touch with and communicating with zangetsu was something he had to master in order to learn bankai.

Ah, that's true. Thanks for the correction.

[GusGus]

Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem

Being able to detect sarcasm is a comprehensive reading skill. Apparently you lack it. Or maybe you couldn’t come up with anything ‘snappier’ to say and tried to demean my intellect. Well, aren’t you just original?

Of course I got the sarcasm, that's why I was being condescending in the first place.

Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem

The people of this forum will most likely be negative the majority of the time because of how hard Kubo trolls his readers, but we continue to read because we like Bleach. We can be upset and angry at something and still like it. We vent on the forums because we care about this series. If you can’t understand that than maybe you're at the wrong forum.

Well, that's a fair enough answer (minus the last sentence), you should have come with this instead of the unnecessary sarcasms.

[Bassoonicmayhem]

Originally Posted by GusGus

Well, that's a fair enough answer (minus the last sentence), you should have come with this instead of the unnecessary sarcasms.

My original post to you was to emulate the same tone you started with. If you want to be treated with respect and dignity than post with such—not just call out angry fans and tell them to stop ‘watching’ something that they read. Despite this though, I’m glad that you can understand where I and other upset fans are coming from. I rather us come to a consensus than continue this discussion. It is rather pointless and derivative by now.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by sayde

Ichigo's always had a hard time taking complete control over his power. But getting in touch with and communicating with zangetsu was something he had to master in order to learn bankai. I've got nothing else to say in regards to your other points.

Not exactly. Yorurichi used Urahara's training device to force Zangetsu to manifest. All Ichigo had to do then was fight Zangetsu into submission. He had reached a point where he was beginning to gain better understanding of Zangetsu (after fighting Kenpachi) but he had not yet learned to talk with him at will and didn't have to learn that in order to obtain his bankai.

Ichigo didn't learn proper communication with Zangetsu through jinzen until Isshin taught him right before he was about fight Aizen. Before that, he could call Zangetsu's power, but he wasn't actually communicating directly with him.

Though it hasn't been said outright, I'm guessing Zangetsu did return and Ichigo can still intuitively call on his powers like he did before though Zangetsu hasn't manifested himself yet.