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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 02
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 36 19.78%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 49 26.92%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 43 23.63%
7 out of 10: Good... 32 17.58%
6 out of 10: Average... 16 8.79%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 1 0.55%
4 out of 10: Poor... 2 1.10%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 0.55%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 1.10%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-07-17, 10:12   Link #361
Awrya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Which is very evident if you've ever played an MMO during launch or in beta when thousands of people are the same level. I can't find it at the moment, but in the beta for WoW's next expansion, there were so many people in the new starting zone that they literally formed a line for a quest's node spawn. Not a short line, either. It was a couple of hundred people long. And you had to do that quest before advancing. If the same principle holds true in SAO...
Reminds me when BC, WotLK and Cata were just launched

I don't think any key quest exists that you'd need to do in order to receive further quests, Kirito just moved to next town/village without doing a single quest in the starting area. Though it is possible that by doing the last few quests in one area, you will get a quest to guide you to the next area, with knowledge from beta, Kirito could avoid it.

My guess is all the players just followed the crowd in the first few weeks or formed large party in order to not die. Asuna's remark implied that the first boss group consisted of groups of players, who had known each other and formed a party prior the start. With a large party, each member will also get significantly less experience.

It is also possible that players did quests outside the boss dungeon, since those enemies inside a dungeon are generally tougher. Coupled with their virtual death equals real death, perhaps no one or not many explored the first dungeon, hence it took them one month to find it.
If any group found it like a week after start, they'd mark themselves as beta testers.
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Old 2012-07-17, 10:27   Link #362
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There's also another problem with group dynamics that explains why only such a small amount of people were in this boss raid to begin with.

Human's individual sense of responsibility is inversely proportionate to the size of the group they're in. Few people actually level up enough and gather enough information and bother to come to that raid meeting, the ones that don't are figuring "someone else who's better than me will do it".
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Old 2012-07-17, 10:39   Link #363
Awrya
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
There's also another problem with group dynamics that explains why only such a small amount of people were in this boss raid to begin with.
In a game, only a limited amount of players can fight a boss at a time.
SAO was definitely not created with the idea that thousands of players fight against one boss at once
They basically arranged it that while one or two groups fight the boss, the rest can rest and drink potions to regenerate health. There would also be an issue with too many players fighting at once and hindering themselves.
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Human's individual sense of responsibility is inversely proportionate to the size of the group they're in. Few people actually level up enough and gather enough information and bother to come to that raid meeting, the ones that don't are figuring "someone else who's better than me will do it".
You have to keep in mind that fighting a boss is much more dangerous than a boar and no one wants to die. While having not many players isn't good, forcing low level players to fight a boss is even worse. Those under-levelled and not accustomed to fighting would simply stiffen up and die in a wide range attack.
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Old 2012-07-17, 10:55   Link #364
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The mere fact that Kirito/Asuna was a two-person party proves that there could have been more players there if more showed up.

As for your second comment, I'm not sure whether you are rebuking me or agreeing with me.


Besides, most of those points don't really disprove my point of the "Someone else will do it" mechanic. I mean, if they didn't HAVE that mentality, more people of appropreate level would've showed up.
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Old 2012-07-17, 11:09   Link #365
Awrya
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
The mere fact that Kirito/Asuna was a two-person party proves that there could have been more players there if more showed up.
We don't know the exact number of people in a raid, but you're right that more people could have fought.

Quote:
As for your second comment, I'm not sure whether you are rebuking me or agreeing with me.


Besides, most of those points don't really disprove my point of the "Someone else will do it" mechanic. I mean, if they didn't HAVE that mentality, more people of appropreate level would've showed up.
I think your point is true, but SAO is basically a virtual reality, therefore some humans will be indecisive and cowardly.
If on the first floor, where players are still familiarizing themselves with the mechanics, a majority of players heroically challenge the boss, tearfully vow to clear the game for the sake of the fallen players and move to the next floor, I'm probably watching a different anime
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Old 2012-07-17, 11:12   Link #366
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TBH, I wonder how many of the posters who kept complaining about how it's unrealistic they haven't cleared the first floor yet at the start of ep. 2 would pick up a sword and go out and tackle some wild hog, hyenas, wolves, bears etc. in real life.

Because that's what they're essentially complaining that the SAO players aren't doing fast enough.
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Old 2012-07-17, 11:38   Link #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
In a game, only a limited amount of players can fight a boss at a time.
Not in old school Everquest! You could throw as many people at a raid boss as your computers could handle!
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Old 2012-07-17, 11:52   Link #368
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Being a mmorpg gamer, complaints about pace of leveling and adventuring is ridiculous. Every game's different and their learning curve is different as well. Considering this game is a VR mmorpg and there's no significant mention of general mmorpg veterans, it's natural to take a long-ass time to get a hang of PvE when screw ups mean death.

The first boss is always the most intimidating one in any conventional dungeon crawl RPG with the 'hardcore' mode on. Having never played/witnessed the first boss and no basis to estimate, you always want to be ridiculously over geared and over levelled in comparison to normal mobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Not in old school Everquest! You could throw as many people at a raid boss as your computers could handle!
And Ragnarok, the Event GM during the anniversary event spawned 2 bosses in the hometown and almost everyone gathered to try and kill it. the server itself couldn't handle it and ultimately crashed. *yaaaay*
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Old 2012-07-17, 11:52   Link #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Not in old school Everquest! You could throw as many people at a raid boss as your computers could handle!
Well since SAO doesn't let players stack on top of each other (no I don't mean anything else) due to avatar hit box, in a limited space of the boss room you wouldn't want everyone to cram in there anyway. Boss AoE attacks are bad. Friendly fire is just as bad
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:45   Link #370
Eratas123
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Any idea when this episode took place timeline wise? I'm assuming about a week or two has passed since the Beta testers are selfish pricks mindset has already been shown.

Side note - If you were a beta tester, would you stay behind and teach the noobies? I probably would, though my reason is I believe in "strength in numbers" somewhat. Better to make allies who look up to you and owe you than level up by yourself and risk being killed by an off-screen arrow.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:47   Link #371
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One month, it said so in the episode itself.
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:49   Link #372
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A 19 page discussion for just 1 episode?

HOLY SH--!!
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Old 2012-07-17, 12:54   Link #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Any idea when this episode took place timeline wise? I'm assuming about a week or two has passed since the Beta testers are selfish pricks mindset has already been shown.

Side note - If you were a beta tester, would you stay behind and teach the noobies? I probably would, though my reason is I believe in "strength in numbers" somewhat. Better to make allies who look up to you and owe you than level up by yourself and risk being killed by an off-screen arrow.
Didn't the episode say that it's been a month since the death game had begun? Other than that, no idea..

Nope. I'm the type of person who'd leave the noobs fend from themselves. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by leokiko View Post
A 19 page discussion for just 1 episode?

HOLY SH--!!
The episode 1 discussion thread is.. 25 pages long..
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:01   Link #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
Nope. I'm the type of person who'd leave the noobs fend from themselves. *shrug
Same with me =( I usually like to be miles ahead. And it's not even funny with the recent Guild Wars beta.
Spoiler for Irrelevant to ep2:


However I don't understand Kirito in that regard. This is a life & death scenario. I don't see what possible benefit comes from turning down people who try to get close to him. (Information-wise)

I understand hoarding for yourself to increase your own survivability, but that should at least allow some room in your world for a few friends right? D:

I hope the series doesn't fk up the timeline. Particularly Kirito's bad experience that changed how he is with group parties.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:16   Link #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I understand hoarding for yourself to increase your own survivability, but that should at least allow some room in your world for a few friends right? D:
I interpreted Kirito's solo stance differently than you did. I didn't see it as hoarding himself to increase his own survivability but rather as avoiding a responsibility for what might happen to others. He considered partnering with Klein in episode 1 but when Klein wanted to bring along his friends, that's when Kirito backed off. I felt that he didn't want to be responsible if anything went wrong to the members of the larger group. By episode 2, Kirito had come to the realization that whether he liked it or not, he would have to join up with other people at least to accomplish the big goals. If he still felt the being a loner was the best course at all times, he would never have gone to the boss meeting in the first plae.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:26   Link #376
Eratas123
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Question: Why didn't Kirito just say that Diabel was a Beta tester? I thought if he said it like "Diabel was a beta tester too! That didn't stop him from making this group!" then they'd realize that just because you're a beater doesn't mean you have to be selfish.

Cline's a really nice guy, though. His first thought about the situation isn't "Oh God, I should stay alive!" or "What's my advantage?" but rather "I gotta help my friends!"
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:27   Link #377
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Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Question: Why didn't Kirito just say that Diabel was a Beta tester? I thought if he said it like "Diabel was a beta tester too! That didn't stop him from making this group!" then they'd realize that just because you're a beater doesn't mean you have to be selfish.
because Kirito has no proof.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:29   Link #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK View Post
I interpreted Kirito's solo stance differently than you did. I didn't see it as hoarding himself to increase his own survivability but rather as avoiding a responsibility for what might happen to others. He considered partnering with Klein in episode 1 but when Klein wanted to bring along his friends, that's when Kirito backed off. I felt that he didn't want to be responsible if anything went wrong to the members of the larger group. By episode 2, Kirito had come to the realization that whether he liked it or not, he would have to join up with other people at least to accomplish the big goals. If he still felt the being a loner was the best course at all times, he would never have gone to the boss meeting in the first plae.
I'm not talking about his approach to clearing. I'm talking about his superior understanding of the game. He can be a solo-er, but at least share his information publicly. He doesn't provide help to others at all in that form either. When there's nothing to lose.

The only reason I can imagine is in situations like the last-hit bonus. He wants certain non-repeatable rewards to himself.

He hasn't changed at all in episode 2. He's still keeping everything to himself, where there's no apparent need to. Friends and companions is a different story. That's not what I'm talking about.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:34   Link #379
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He hasn't changed at all in episode 2. He's still keeping everything to himself, where there's no apparent need to. Friends and companions is a different story. That's not what I'm talking about.
i think he was afraid of standing out as a Beta tester.
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Old 2012-07-17, 13:35   Link #380
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because Kirito has no proof.
.....Do'h! I've been watching so many anime's that I forgot that what we see isn't congruent to what the audience sees:/ Thanks for that.
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