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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's - Rating
Perfect 10 14 22.58%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 25.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 20.97%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 4.84%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 12.90%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.23%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 6.45%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.61%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.61%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-14, 17:59   Link #221
Nanya01
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
And he was easily and rather effortlessly removed from the A's movie. Point taken.
No, he wasn't, the whole plot had to be re-written without him. (Need I remind you about the whole "Drain Nanoha and Fate right away" part?)

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From what I recall, Ishida does her best to take care of Hayate.
She wouldn't let Hayate live alone, which is what Graham's existence does.
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Old 2013-03-14, 17:59   Link #222
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Unless you've seen the movie and perfectly understand every bit of dialogue without translation, I'd say no, we don't know yet if he was "effortlessly" removed from the A's movie. From what we do know, they had to rewrite quite a bit after removing Graham.

Dr. Ishida doing her best to take care of her, AT THE HOSPITAL, concerning her medical conditions. This does not account for her retaining a private residence, food expenses, living expenses such as water and electricity... or all of her personal belongings, like that library on the shelf of her room... or her bed... so on and so forth. That's all Graham. Again.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:02   Link #223
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
But that is the problem. To be more “clear” she is not as memorable and sure as hell always gets the worse part when comes down to her screen time. Then she is just stuck with being best friends with Nanoha and Fate without having them actually talk to each other until the very last chapters in a rather rush way.
Well, quality of character is also debatable, but...
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I just keep saying that because we don’t see this story from her eyes. Not more than hints of how she feels with a family, why is she so mature and in peace about dying, to the point it seems she doesn’t care what will be of her knights when she dies. For having her as “main character” is just not possible to say she is in the spot light enough for that. She is more central than Yuuno in the first season but that is only because the Book of Darkness keeps the attention all along the story.
This is just not right. There's at least two episodes devoted to her family life with the Wolkies, their interactions, and the dynamics between her and the rest. This is sufficient time to grasp how she is. It is with this in contrast to the pain they are most likely feeling because of the realization that they have to do this all behind Hayate's back.
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Hayate is really not well define in anything beyond her plot role. She is too passive during this and lacks any kind of goal until the very end when her goal was “fix this crap that is going so wrong”. All along I think she doesn’t really steps up from her role as Nanoha and Fate did for me in the first seasons and the movie. So she feels flat compare even to them. A lot of this stuff is just base too much on your own preferences and really getting this farther than it should.
Well, like I've said, there's really only room for internal action in her role. But it doesn't have any inherently less value when it comes to storytelling.
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Does that means Hayate is a bad character? No, just a poor one that fits the spot just well. She doesn’t have any kind of change because we can’t tell how she was first compare to how she is at the end or what did happen to her and how this change her. With Fate her character grows and changes and even Nanoha finds new determination and ends an adventure. Hayate? She is drag along for the part by the others and kind of just push in to the action. And she is the main character? I don’t think so. No real arc, no real change and focus on others points of view A’s doesn’t make Hayate the protagonist. As simple as that.
Actually she did. You can tell by how she acts in her final dialogue with Reinforce. If that is not enough, surely her growth into StrikerS is something, even if it wasn't really expressed that well.
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Now that doesn’t mean I think she is a bad character. I think she barely count as one, at least when force to be a “main character”. Hey even in StrikerS I could barely decide what was her deal because of how little I ever get from her. Up to this day Hayate has been kind of a third wheel set with Nanoha and Fate just because. Fans of her maker her the jewel of the series, others hate her, I did hate her some time until I realize I just hate her fan made persona and come in terms with her canon role.
I feel that calling a character barely one amounts to a fairly poor character, unless their role is clearly supporting For example,Nanoha's family, Arisa and Suzuka don't need that much depth. Their purpose is mostly to expand on Nanoha's character.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:12   Link #224
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No, he wasn't, the whole plot had to be re-written without him. (Need I remind you about the whole "Drain Nanoha and Fate right away" part?)



She wouldn't let Hayate live alone, which is what Graham's existence does.
It's still mostly the same. The majority of the scenes are the same, with a few revised scenes to fix the plotholes left behind by the removal of some characters.

These so called "important characters" can be replaced by other characters, simply because their roll doesn't require screen time. All I'm hearing is, well...so and so did this and that, so that makes them more important. Well then, anyone can take their place. Fate on the other hand has a great deal of screentime and scenes that transition to other scenes. Removing her is detrimental to the flow of the series. Not to mention it would make absolutely no sense after the end of the first season.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:19   Link #225
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Demi., your bias towards Fate is clouding your judgement on this.

You've already made up your mind that this movie is going to be good and you completely ignore the plot holes of the first movie that BOTH Kaijo AND myself have pointed out, MANY times to you.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:27   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Demi., your bias towards Fate is clouding your judgement on this.

You've already made up your mind that this movie is going to be good and you completely ignore the plot holes of the first movie that BOTH Kaijo AND myself have pointed out, MANY times to you.

I don't think it's "going to be good." I already watched it, hence I know it's good. Or at least, I know that I personally enjoyed it.

And I keep saying that the first 3 episodes of the series were immensely boring to the majority who watched it. Is not the fact that it was received much better than the first season, more important than what little that should be considered a "plot hole."? Which is only a plot hole when compared with the first season. I consider it more that Nanoha's character was altered a bit.

I don't even have to use MAL for this.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=90525
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:29   Link #227
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I don't think it's "going to be good." I already watched it, hence I know it's good. Or at least, I know that I personally enjoyed it.
So wait, did you watch it? Or just hear second hand from people who have? Were there english translations?

Demi, as RD says, until you have seen the movie complete with English translations, you cannot know. It is a literal impossibility. Maybe they rewrote it sufficiently. Maybe there are glaring plot holes. There is no way for us to know until we see it. Even you must acknowledge it that much. Otherwise, I could say: "I know that Demi's next post will be bad. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't matter; I just know it in advance because I know what it will contain." Surely you can see the problem with those kinds of statements?

And Sansker... Wikipedia calls Hayate a main character in A's. Myanimelist calls Hayate a main character. The Nanoha wiki, created by fans of the series, calls Hayate a main character. The only person who doesn't, is you. You alone.

Protip: If you find your subjective reality is different than that of everybody else, it is a sure sign that you just might be wrong. Or mentally ill. I'd suggest putting a lot of thought into when or if you respond again.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:36   Link #228
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Demi, as RD says, until you have seen the movie complete with English translations, you cannot know. It is a literal impossibility.
Bah, Nanoha is not exactly a super special exposition heavy show that requires a thorough understanding of Japanese. Even with can't-even-be-called-basic Japanese you'd be able to grasp most of what's going on.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:38   Link #229
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Bah, Nanoha is not exactly a super special exposition heavy show that requires a thorough understanding of Japanese. Even with can't-even-be-called-basic Japanese you'd be able to grasp most of what's going on.
Speak for yourself, I have "can't even be called basic Japanese" after two semesters of it being taught by native Japanese teachers, and I can still barely grasp a few words spoken in Nanoha. ._.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:40   Link #230
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post

Demi, as RD says, until you have seen the movie complete with English translations, you cannot know. It is a literal impossibility. Maybe they rewrote it sufficiently. Maybe there are glaring plot holes. There is no way for us to know until we see it. Even you must acknowledge it that much. Otherwise, I could say: "I know that Demi's next post will be bad. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't matter; I just know it in advance because I know what it will contain." Surely you can see the problem with those kinds of statements?

I didn't understand a good bit of the dialogue, true. But the movie wasn't exactly dialogue heavy and the stuff that I didn't understand could be figured out by the moving frames. It's a lot like the first season, where even without subtitles, I'd pretty much know everything that's going on. The only thing I didn't understand was near the end, why the Wolkenritter were "destroyed" which caused Hayate to lose her mind.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:40   Link #231
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One of the points of contention, is how Hayate is able to live alone without Graham. If this is somehow explained in the movie, and you don't need english subtitles to know, then I am open to someone explaining.

If Demi wants to explain how Hayate is able to live alone, then we're all ears. We're waiting. My guess: It is never addressed in the movie, and thus left as a gaping plot hole.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:49   Link #232
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And don't say "It's not important" because it is, it directly affects Hayate's desire for a family and to not be alone, thus affecting the Wolkenritter and their desires and goals to complete the Book to save Hayate. Without Graham, Hayate by all rights would've been shipped off to an orphanage.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:58   Link #233
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One of the points of contention, is how Hayate is able to live alone without Graham. If this is somehow explained in the movie, and you don't need english subtitles to know, then I am open to someone explaining.

If Demi wants to explain how Hayate is able to live alone, then we're all ears. We're waiting. My guess: It is never addressed in the movie, and thus left as a gaping plot hole.
From what I understood, her parents left her the house, while Dr. Ishida called her on various occasions to make sure she was alright. Which interestingly, Hayate tended to ignore. Didn't want to be pitied, I guess. :|
And after the knights appearance, all of the stuff Graham did for her was taken over by them and the book of darkness.

Though I have a plot-hole of my own that I thought was fixed with the removal of graham. How did Graham find Hayate in the first place? I don't believe this was ever explained. Especially before her "powers" were even activated.

Another, how was Arf able to maintain her adult form, and be completely unaffected, after Fate's linker core was drained? In the movie, Arfs linker core gets drained too, which makes more sense.

@Rising: This is the Nanoha series, children don't need orphanages. They can live alone.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:04   Link #234
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@Rising: This is the Nanoha series, children don't need orphanages. They can live alone.
On Mid-Childa, maybe. Which this movie is most certainly not set on. And it's specifically stated in the original A's that Hayate was only able to continue living on her own thanks to Graham supporting her financially. So without that, plothole!

Family leaving the house to her in the will is fine and all, but if she can't afford to pay the taxes and such on it, it'll be taken away from her.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:08   Link #235
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On Mid-Childa, maybe. Which this movie is most certainly not set on. And it's specifically stated in the original A's that Hayate was only able to continue living on her own thanks to Graham supporting her financially. So without that, plothole!

Family leaving the house to her in the will is fine and all, but if she can't afford to pay the taxes and such on it, it'll be taken away from her.
If they left her the house, I imagine they left her an inheritance as well.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:09   Link #236
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From what I understood, her parents left her the house, while Dr. Ishida called her on various occasions to make sure she was alright. Which interestingly, Hayate tended to ignore. Didn't want to be pitied, I guess. :|
And after the knights appearance, all of the stuff Graham did was taken over by them and the book of darkness.

Though I have a plot-hole of my own that I thought was fixed with the removal of graham. How did Graham find Hayate in the first place? I don't believe this was ever explained. Especially before her "powers" were even activated.
How does she pay for medical bills? Food? Electricity? Water? The ability to pay off officials who would either ship her off to an orphanage or foster family, or assign her a caregiver? Japan, more than most countries, is fairly in touch with making sure kids have guardians(or at least going to school). Even Fate needed a guardian once she lost Precia. If she has enough money to pay for all that, then she's relatively rich, and should have a butler or maid or something. Beyond that, Ishida would be duty-bound to report that Hayate is living alone.

And Graham found her because he was tracking the book. Given magic is involved, it is not hard to see him with the drive and the ability to find it.

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@Rising: This is the Nanoha series, children don't need orphanages. They can live alone.
On Earth? in Japan? What Japanese child in Japan, in the Nanoha series, lived alone? Hell, even in Mid-Childa, Erio and Caro were taken to shelters. Japanese ideals and social/cultural aspects tend to find themselves woven into even off-world human societies.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:10   Link #237
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If they left her the house, I imagine they left her an inheritance as well.
And if that's not stated, then we don't know. But in my experience unless her family were billionaires, an inheritance wouldn't be enough for a single disabled girl to love on her own in a modest home without her needing a job and such. And if they were billionaires I can't really see them living in a house that modest.

So no, Demi., not really buying that as an excuse. Still looking like a plothole.

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On Earth? in Japan? What Japanese child in Japan, in the Nanoha series, lived alone? Hell, even in Mid-Childa, Erio and Caro were taken to shelters. Japanese ideals and social/cultural aspects tend to find themselves woven into even off-world human societies.
Right now the only girl we think lives alone is Einhart, who is both older and not nearly as disabled as Hayate, and we may yet find out that she has legal guardians or parents living with her or nearby.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:11   Link #238
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Though I have a plot-hole of my own that I thought was fixed with the removal of graham. How did Graham find Hayate in the first place?
that is a good question, but not exactly a plot-hole. Luck, perhaps? Not exactly a plot-hole since you can hand wave it by saying that Graham was visiting Earth when he found Hayate with the Book and realized what happened.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:11   Link #239
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And Sansker... Wikipedia calls Hayate a main character in A's. Myanimelist calls Hayate a main character. The Nanoha wiki, created by fans of the series, calls Hayate a main character. The only person who doesn't, is you. You alone.

Protip: If you find your subjective reality is different than that of everybody else, it is a sure sign that you just might be wrong. Or mentally ill. I'd suggest putting a lot of thought into when or if you respond again.
Now I am mentally ill? That is actually funny. This keeps getting more and more ridicules every single time we end up like this. I don’t care what they say; I already express my reasons and arguments about this.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:13   Link #240
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Now I am mentally ill? That is actually funny. This keeps getting more and more ridicules every single time we end up like this. I don’t care what they say; I already express my reasons and arguments about this.
Yes, we know. It's been a constant flow of you saying something sucks for an opinion you hold up as fact, then shutting down the debate whenever we attempt to prove you wrong. We're quite familiar with the cycle by now.
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