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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's - Rating
Perfect 10 14 23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 26.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 20.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 13.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 5.00%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.67%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-21, 23:24   Link #421
Archon_Wing
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http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=99306 It's located here.
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Old 2013-03-21, 23:30   Link #422
Sansker
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Ah that place. I really didn't see the need of it but whatever.

In any case I am now searching for a way to see the movie but I want to wait until the spanish subs are ready. That way I will be able to understand it better.
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Old 2013-03-21, 23:50   Link #423
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The original point I was making, was that Fate was more evenly matched with Signum in the series. Here, she gets owned, easily. Your point is that she was in constant worry mode, which I can kinda see... but that still doesn't excuse it totally. Fate still lost it in the movie, while she held it more together in the series.

The basic point that series Fate was stronger, physically and mentally, still holds out. THAT is the point I am making. In the movie, she gets distracted and owned. True, she is more of a match pre-Nanoha draining, but that same calm is present even during the series Nanoha drain.


But it's not a fair comparison, because what Fate managed to do to Signum happened before Nanohas linker core got stolen. I'm not sure how that constitutes as holding it together.

Another thing is that they had the intention to steal Fate's linker core in the movie, they were merely holding her off in the series. The only thing I'll give you credit for is how Fate may have seemed a little bit more squishy in the movie. She took quite a bit of damage when she was thrown into the building the second time. But according to Signum, this should have left her unconscious.

The significance of this change was made explicitely clear during their second encounter. Where Signum noted that Fate seemed far more skilled than before and had won far too easily during their first encounter. In which Signum asks if Nanoha is someone important to her in which Fate replies, "my friend." She also states this another time inferring that Fate lost her cool the first time, which was why she underperformed.

Also you're completely disregarding Fate's other battles with Signum which were much more evenly matched...Which drives the point home.




Quote:
Ergo, Series Fate is stronger than Movie Fate. She is able to keep it together enough to not get owned while Nanoha is being drained. You have to acknowledge at least that much. In both the movie and the series, Fate charges at Nanoha while she is being drained. In the series, she stops. In the movie, she keeps going and gets swatted down.
I dont recall Signum slicing at her in the series either, she just blocked her path. Nanoha was also fully conscious when Fate charged for her in the series. Not the case in the movie.


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Honestly, Demi, when it comes to Fate, can you really not see any criticism at all? I know how you feel. I used to be an Akane fanatic in the Ranma 1/2 fandom. I remember not being able to take any criticism of her character, no matter how minor. I look back now, and regret what I did and how blind I had been, and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to you.
It's not any different than you going out of your way to blame Fate for everything. Despite the significant amount of Wolkenritter bonding or the Reinforce scenes in the movie. Heck, I'll agree Nanoha got little in terms of development, but she did get most of all the battles. Hayate and Reinforce, and even the Wolkenritter got quite a bit of development, however. Especially Reinforce. But that doesn't seem to register for you, because then you wouldn't have the same view you planned on having from the start.

Edit: Kerokos an example of someone who has many different opinions from my own, yet I don't feel the need to give my take on everything we disagree with. Some things I comment on, yet there is a lot I dismiss as well. Even if it involves Fate.
When it becomes a recurring theme and brought up constantly, I'm going to comment.
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Old 2013-03-21, 23:56   Link #424
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I was going to make another more detailed post but the amount of heated discussion is too much for my tastes (very much like when the details for the movie started trickled in, from what I remember). I'll just say that some comparisons with other movies as a sign of "mainstream corruption" are a bit extreme.
As for what comes afterwards... I actually wouldn't mind a StrikerS movie.
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Old 2013-03-22, 00:04   Link #425
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So, what was Lindy doing after nanoha and fatecrash through the barrier?
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Old 2013-03-22, 00:18   Link #426
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Originally Posted by blaspot View Post
So, what was Lindy doing after nanoha and fatecrash through the barrier?
.... stepped to the side...... *facepalm*.... why Lindy, why?
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Old 2013-03-22, 00:21   Link #427
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So, what was Lindy doing after nanoha and fatecrash through the barrier?
Lindy was talking with Signum trying to figure out what she was up to, while Vita decided to surprise attack her. She dodged Vitas attack, and this is pretty much when Nanoha and Fate took over with their upgraded devices.
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Old 2013-03-22, 00:21   Link #428
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Is not like she did much, at leas in the field, to begging with in the series.
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Old 2013-03-22, 00:41   Link #429
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Could've fought against Zafira.... then Arf goes to Shamal... then Shamal uses flashbang.
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Old 2013-03-22, 05:32   Link #430
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I don't understand why you guys like to heap so much blame on Tsuzuki as if he's solely responsible for ruining your enjoyment of Nanoha. I sincerely doubt he is making every single decision, especially about the movies. Unless he's standing there with a gun to your head making you consume all new Nanoha-franchise media, or something. I mean, the movie's separate canon from the series, so I don't see how its existence could ruin anything.

Anyway... a lot of things in the movie rubbed me the wrong way. I've always been way more of a Nanoha fan then Fate, and I loved the first movie, but this one just left me disappointed. A lot of other people have already gone into reasons so I'll just leave it at that.

Now to wait for Lyrical Party 5's news, I suppose
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Old 2013-03-22, 05:36   Link #431
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
I just wonder what Tsuki's going to do next. There's no more canon to rehash unless he wants to do a StrikerS movie.

I REALLY don't want him to make a mess of that season like he has with the first two.
Movie StrikerS is.... hmm, difficult but still possible. It'd involve generous amounts of re-writing, but possible. Remove the gadget drone bits and replace them with the cast fighting the numbers, Zest and Lutecia from day one, introduce Vivio somewhere around the first half hour as well. Assuming a two and a half hour length, you could have one and a half hour of buildup before the Cradle, leaving you with an hour for that and the epilogue.

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Is not like she did much, at leas in the field, to begging with in the series.
Yeah, but at least there she was tied to her command seat. Here she was on the ground, armed and ready to fight, yet still got the shaft.

Big troll, that scene.
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Old 2013-03-22, 08:13   Link #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
But it's not a fair comparison, because what Fate managed to do to Signum happened before Nanohas linker core got stolen. I'm not sure how that constitutes as holding it together.
Because we can compare the two from the moment Fate sees Nanoha is being drained. Even if you ignore everything that came before that point, in both the movie and the series, we see a stark difference in Fate's actions, once she sees that Nanoha is in trouble. Yes, Signum blocked her path, but had Fate kept going forward, Signum would have attacked her. I think you can agree to that. In the movie, we see exactly what would have happened, had Fate continued forward.

Quote:
Another thing is that they had the intention to steal Fate's linker core in the movie, they were merely holding her off in the series. The only thing I'll give you credit for is how Fate may have seemed a little bit more squishy in the movie. She took quite a bit of damage when she was thrown into the building the second time. But according to Signum, this should have left her unconscious.
In the series, you don't really think they would have avoided draining Fate if they could, during the first encounter? In fact, Signum's response in the movie, is exactly what I would have expected if they got the opportunity in the series: "I've downed a mage. Pass me the book."

Considerably squishier; Fate got tossed into *two* buildings in the series, and was still able to move and fight just fine.

Quote:
The significance of this change was made explicitely clear during their second encounter. Where Signum noted that Fate seemed far more skilled than before and had won far too easily during their first encounter. In which Signum asks if Nanoha is someone important to her in which Fate replies, "my friend." She also states this another time inferring that Fate lost her cool the first time, which was why she underperformed.
Signum wondered if it was training or mental state, that allowed her to fight better the second time. Fate essentially replied that it was both. But that is my point: even though it was short, the instance of Nanoha being drained in the series, didn't cause Fate to allow herself to open herself up to an attack.

You know, if anything, Fate *should* have been more distraught during the series. In the movie, they actually had a chance to meet and talk, thus relieve some of the angst about being apart. In the series, the first time Fate sees Nanoha again, is when Yuuno teleports her in and she sees Nanoha unable to move on the ground. Which makes Fate's "We were apart" line in the movie feel really odd to me. You just saw her, girl!

Quote:
Also you're completely disregarding Fate's other battles with Signum which were much more evenly matched...Which drives the point home.
The other matches were with the cartridge system/shonen power up. Note that in the series, as I said, Fate manages a hit on Signum in their first encounter (Signum lifts her shirt later to expose the mark to Zafira). Maybe if Fate wasn't too distraught in the movie she might have done that too, but it didn't seem likely to me. She really got pwned hard. It really made her look bad. If it were me, I would have preferred they had her put up more of a fight. Note that this ties into the general discontent I have in general, regarding how the cartridge system was handled in the movie.

Out of all the problems I have with Fate, I actually think this was a detriment to her character, and should have been better handled, to not make her appear so weak. She does have issues losing her cool (Jail pointed that out), but in the A's series, she didn't let it open her up to an attack, or get taken down hard because of it.

Quote:
I dont recall Signum slicing at her in the series either, she just blocked her path. Nanoha was also fully conscious when Fate charged for her in the series. Not the case in the movie.
As I said above, don't you think Signum would have sliced at her, had Fate tried to continue forwards?

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Originally Posted by xizro345 View Post
I was going to make another more detailed post but the amount of heated discussion is too much for my tastes (very much like when the details for the movie started trickled in, from what I remember). I'll just say that some comparisons with other movies as a sign of "mainstream corruption" are a bit extreme.
As for what comes afterwards... I actually wouldn't mind a StrikerS movie.
"Mainstream corruption" can be either good or bad, depending on where you sit. Such things does make a movie appeal to more people, so obviously, a lot of people like it. Moe and yuri are hot topics among a particular part of the anime crowd these days, mostly males, who tend to buy more anime and figurines and such.

I will say this for Tsuzuki, though... at least we are getting completely new animation, new scenes, and upgraded versions of scenes that were in the series. The poor Madoka crowd merely got the 12 episodes repackaged into two movies. The exact same animation, music, and scenes. Talk about a trolling cash grab.... although they are supposed to get a third movie that is completely new. I get the feeling we just might get a completely new third movie, though, since they set the A's movie dialogue 2 years after, instead of 6. That makes time plenty of time before StrikerS for a new movie.
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Old 2013-03-22, 08:37   Link #433
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Originally Posted by aers View Post
I don't understand why you guys like to heap so much blame on Tsuzuki as if he's solely responsible for ruining your enjoyment of Nanoha. I sincerely doubt he is making every single decision, especially about the movies. Unless he's standing there with a gun to your head making you consume all new Nanoha-franchise media, or something. I mean, the movie's separate canon from the series, so I don't see how its existence could ruin anything.

Anyway... a lot of things in the movie rubbed me the wrong way. I've always been way more of a Nanoha fan then Fate, and I loved the first movie, but this one just left me disappointed. A lot of other people have already gone into reasons so I'll just leave it at that.

Now to wait for Lyrical Party 5's news, I suppose
The problem is, ultimately, Tsuki has the final say on everything for Nanoha and he's been with the series since the beginning.

Yes, Fate makes him a lot of money, and, if you read my review, you'll notice how I hated how they screwed Fate's scenes up just as much as they screwed up other characters. However, while I like Fate as a character, I don't think she needs so much screen time. Seriously, one of the things that people here (Demi., Sansker) have said is that they don't like the secondary and minor characters as much as they like Fate.

Well, if Fate didn't dominate the screen time and the other characters could get fleshed out properly, maybe you would like them more.

hell, my favorite characters in the franchise are the Numbers from StrikerS. And, well, it was pointed out that while the Numbers weren't too popular in StrikerS, when they got screen time and development in ViVid, suddenly their popularity sky-rocketed.

Really, Tsuki, I know that Fate's the most popular character, but really, if you do any more movies or animated seasons, cut down on her screen time.

She has had 3 seasons and 2 movies taking spotlight and development away from Nanoha (2 movies), Hayate (A's movie), Yuuno (anything after canon A's), Chrono, Erio, Caro and Sette. We KNOW her backstory, very tragic, yes, but you're shoving it down our throats so much that it's getting sickening. Hell, the whole shoving NanoFate at the beginning of the movie was annoying enough.
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Old 2013-03-22, 11:00   Link #434
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Out of all the problems I have with Fate, I actually think this was a detriment to her character, and should have been better handled, to not make her appear so weak. She does have issues losing her cool (Jail pointed that out), but in the A's series, she didn't let it open her up to an attack, or get taken down hard because of it.

How Fate appeared in the movie is how I always perceived Fate to be when something/someone important is on the line. That first battle was short, but again, Fate didn't really get much in terms of action scenes. Tsuzuki made it quite clear what each of the three main characters roles were in the movie.

And that's all there really is to it.

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Originally Posted by Nanya
Well, if Fate didn't dominate the screen time and the other characters could get fleshed out properly, maybe you would like them more.
Developmental focus. Screentime wise, Fate has less than Nanoha overall. More than other characters, but Nanoha's the only one that should have more screen time than her.
...And I doubt it. Different stokes for different folkes, but the new StrikerS cast did nothing for me, and they all had enough time to impress me.
Pre-StrikerS characters are perfectly fine, though. Most of them, anyways.

As for the A's movie? Unless you're looking for development from the more minor characters; Wolkenritter/Hayate/Reinforce had a darn lot by comparison of the first season.
Sure Fate had her own, and there were some NanoFate scenes too (Though I'm not quite sure why Fate's solely to blame here?)
Nanoha got hardly any development, that I can agree on, yet she still had a large chunk of screentime...which mostly was relegated to the action scenes.
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Old 2013-03-22, 11:13   Link #435
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And that's all there really is to it.
Poor second lead characters ToT
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Old 2013-03-22, 11:21   Link #436
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Hell, I'll be honest, NONE of my favorite scenes from A's was in the movie.

No big damn heroes from Fate and Yuuno at the start. No true fight scene between Fate and Signum, no Yuuno holding off Vita. No determinator moment for Nanoha with SLB...

No Chrono cornering Shamal.

No Hayate stopping Reinforce, no Nanoha beating Reinforce...

Yeah, all the moments that made A's good were stripped away.

The only things that came out of it that was good was Reinforce's device and the Unbreakable Darkness fighting back.

That's it.

Could have had Lindy fight, that would have made a LOT of difference in this movie.

One of the things that made Nanoha (character) so awesome was the fact that she was such a determinator, that she would never give up, never whine about anything and fight as hard as she could, and if that didn't work, she'd fight harder. It helps when we see scenes like in season 1 where she let a Jewel Seed slip away from her and then vowed to work even harder so nothing bad would happen ever again, and then we see her family's backstory, not to mention her backstory with her friends...

That was ALL removed in the movies! ALL of it!

They took away one of the core concepts of the character and they expect her to remain exactly the same?!
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Old 2013-03-22, 11:47   Link #437
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That was ALL removed in the movies! ALL of it!
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Old 2013-03-22, 11:53   Link #438
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okay, so I was a LITTLE wrong, but still...

That comes out of left field as Nanoha, until THAT point, has had NO development towards being a determinator or trying harder than her hardest.

Really, where was her Starlight Breaker as she was getting drained? That was one of her best moments in A's and it defined her throughout the season and it was taken away and NOW they put her determinator status in?! I'm supposed to believe that she's a determinator when there hasn't been ONE scene of her trying harder despite the impossible odds until that point?

So, no, that scene still fails.
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Old 2013-03-22, 12:00   Link #439
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okay, so I was a LITTLE wrong, but still...

That comes out of left field as Nanoha, until THAT point, has had NO development towards being a determinator or trying harder than her hardest.

Really, where was her Starlight Breaker as she was getting drained? That was one of her best moments in A's and it defined her throughout the season and it was taken away and NOW they put her determinator status in?! I'm supposed to believe that she's a determinator when there hasn't been ONE scene of her trying harder despite the impossible odds until that point?

So, no, that scene still fails.
That's taking a bit too far. Sure, that SLB scene missing really hurts, but even in the context of the movies, there's really been no sign that she ever really shows any sign of giving up. For example, they recovered pretty damned fast after being drained. And then there's the whole first movie or season 1, where she never gave up in her fights-- she always had to be beaten down or almost killed.

In any case, getting her face bashed into the ground, has never deterred her.
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Old 2013-03-22, 12:00   Link #440
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I think you are taking this way too hard for no real reasons. Nanoha determination has been hinted since the Movie 1st. She never gives up and she always tries to fight what is opposing her. Only when she sees her words can’t reach it. The SLB scene is just a confirmation of such things and not what settles it.
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