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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's - Rating
Perfect 10 14 23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 26.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 20.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 13.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 5.00%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.67%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-24, 13:58   Link #521
Craxuan
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Defensive enough to murder good people who has never shown anything but good will towards you from the very beginning? Realize just how flimsy the reason is starting to sound here in the Movie? It's alright in canon, but here it's just unnatural.

At any rate, Movie 2nd suffers from plot inconsistency (some scenes should've been modified instead of copied directly from canon), but unless you scrutinize them normally people wouldn't recognize the discrepancy.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:13   Link #522
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I don't think the Knights knew the Book means everyone dies. They just know Hayate WILL die if they do nothing.

It's just they don't know finishing the book, or not finishing it, has the same end result - everyone dies.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:14   Link #523
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The main problem was that the book was eating Hayate’s magic and life so if they give the thing enough energy from the Linker Cores the process stops. Is a simple logic they used there.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:15   Link #524
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After a bit of thinking, speculation and reading between lines that probably aren't there (so sue me, I like thinking about this stuff) here is what I think was what I think was the line of thinking that occurred when it came to the knights and the book. Whether it fills up plot holes, you be the judge:

So Nachtwall is a defense program; that is to say it responds to perceived threats to the book and it's master but because of its corruption, it goes berserk, kills the master anyway and ends up into someone else's hands, repeating the process. That said, its safe to assume whenever the cycle began and the knights went in search of filling the book, they were met with resistance, most likely from the TSAB, which then led to Nacht running amok. Fast forward to their new master, probably their first kind master in like ever. They were perfectly content with not filling the book and risk Nacht taking over, partly because Hayate wished it so and partly because they were happy with living with her.

Of course, that changed when they realized the book was what caused Hayate's deteriorating condition. It forced them to once again go fill up the pages in hope of stopping the book from feeding off their master, but this time they had hoped they could do it without waking up Nacht. They tried to do it as secretive and as fast as possible to try and sail under the TSAB's radar and if they did meet resistance they fought back pretty desperately. The whole thing was a big gamble for them.

They screwed up when they attacked the TSAB's 2 up and coming elite rookies, however. They probably never expected Nanoha and Fate not only to recover so quickly but with upgraded weapons that let them stand toe to toe with them. Not only that, Nanoha and Fate got under their skin by getting way too close to Hayate. They go desperate to silence them before they could get to the TSAB; too separate, which activated the defense program, which decided that it would take over in completing the mission. I noticed they tried talking the program to stand down, saying they had it under control but NachtWall wasn't having any of that

And that's my speculation and I'm sticking to it... until someone thinks of a better idea
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:24   Link #525
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Again, did Nanoha or Fate ever, in the movie, announce they were part of the TSAB/DAB?
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:25   Link #526
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No, I think they nevern mention that but is just fine because it seems this time they handle that a little different. Fate wasn't even a contract mage I think, and Nanoha was helping her no Chrono and his official investigation for the DAB
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:31   Link #527
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So, if Nanoha and Fate never mention it, then why are the Wolkenritter distrustful?

At least in canon they had both the twins (3rd party) AND the fact that Nanoha and Fate were "Bureau Dogs".
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:33   Link #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
So, if Nanoha and Fate never mention it, then why are the Wolkenritter distrustful?

At least in canon they had both the twins (3rd party) AND the fact that Nanoha and Fate were "Bureau Dogs".
They just don't trust outsiders.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:37   Link #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
They just don't trust outsiders.
That and they were too invested in their current plan. Bureau or not, there was no guarantee that Nanoha and Fate could help Hayate. They were too in deep for them to consider any other option, or at least that's what I got from it
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:40   Link #530
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But if they knew the Book was going to go out of control, which leads to the destruction of the world... *sigh* Fucking plot holes.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:43   Link #531
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
But if they knew the Book was going to go out of control, which leads to the destruction of the world... *sigh* Fucking plot holes.
the tldr of a post I made above was that they were trying to fill up the book without activating NachtWall... and they still screwed up.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:43   Link #532
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I sure am glad there's no room for holes like that in StrikerS' plot thanks to this excuse that started as a reference to Macross.

Nope, none at all.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:44   Link #533
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Try to fill up the book without activating NachtWal by... filling up the book, which activates NachtWall.

Fucking brilliant. A's gave them a better excuse. Plotholes. Argh.

/givesup
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:47   Link #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
But if they knew the Book was going to go out of control, which leads to the destruction of the world... *sigh* Fucking plot holes.
Their memories were rewritten with: Complete book to save master. What happened after that?
Signum: Forgot.
Vita: .... Something important....
Shamal: Was it medicine....
Vita: If we smash Zafira's head with Graf Eisen... Will he...?
Zafira: No. -_-

Later:
Vita: Your fault, Natchwal!
*forget after*
Repeat after Master is dead.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:49   Link #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Their memories were rewritten with: Complete book to save master. What happened after that?
Signum: Forgot.
Vita: .... Something important....
Shamal: Was it medicine....
Vita: If we smash Zafira's head with Graf Eisen... Will he...?
Zafira: No. -_-

Later:
Vita: Your fault, Natchwal!
*forget after*
Repeat after Master is dead.
that, too
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Old 2013-03-24, 15:13   Link #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
But if they knew the Book was going to go out of control, which leads to the destruction of the world... *sigh* Fucking plot holes.
They DIDN'T know that though is the problem. Even in the series.

Vita has a "bad feeling" about it, like she's forgotten something important but none of them remember what it is. Until it happens, then they remember why they shouldn't complete the book is it because it flips out and kills everything.
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Old 2013-03-24, 15:16   Link #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
They DIDN'T know that though is the problem. Even in the series.

Vita has a "bad feeling" about it, like she's forgotten something important but none of them remember what it is. Until it happens, then they remember why they shouldn't complete the book is it because it flips out and kills everything.
Um, but...

In the movie, Signum has flashbacks to when she was talking to Reinforce.

In Canon, their memories are screwed up.

Try again?
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Old 2013-03-24, 15:21   Link #538
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I just finished watching Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's.

Before I get into specific detail, let me just say... Magnificent movie.

As a big screen extravaganza, it is a spectacularly superb Starlite-breaking film! I am truly impressed with how this feels like such a smooth, gorgeous, seamless, and "larger than life" film. Every person on the production staff off this film should take pride in making a movie that utilizes the animated film format to its maximum potential.

Now, that's not to say I'm without quibbles. This review would be pretty bland if I had no quibbles. But those quibbles are very much secondary to a tremendously terrific total package that was like a breathtaking reminder of why I fell in love with this franchise, and this character (Nanoha Takamachi) in the first place.

Now, I make this review without having read any other movie review on this thread. I want to put my immediate reaction out there, completely uncomprimised by any opinion or specific line of critique other than my own. But later on, I'll read through this thread, to see what other people think of it.


But for now, I will list out my pros and my cons. Let's start with the pros:

The Pros

1. First and foremost, this movie is a streaking sparkling success as an an animated feature film presentation. I think that movies generally should feel like "an event". They generally should feel special, and have some standout spectacle to them. They should have audaciously engrossing plots, but also ones that are not hard to follow. Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's achieves this as well as any animated movie I've ever seen. And in fact, it's not far off the experience I had with The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

2. Hayate and the Wolkenritter. In the original TV anime version of this narrative, I sympathized with them, and I felt sorry for Hayate. But the movie was just so much better in this respect, I felt. Their characterization just felt more solid here. Signum in particular just felt so rich and strong here, carrying herself with this appealing bushido honor and also wearing her practical but deeply sympathizing heart on her sleeve.

My heart truly went out to Hayate and the Wolkenritter in this movie, so much so that I think I even sympathized with their position more than I did Nanoha, Fate, and Chrono's. I'm not sure what precisely accounts for this difference, as my memory of the original TV anime is somewhat hazy now. But I think one factor is that we get to meet Hayate very early on in the film, and this truly did feel like her story from the very beginning. Whereas in the TV anime it really did start out being more about Nanoha and Fate's reunion which later transitioned to being Hayate's story.

3. The action scenes were a frantically fabulously fantastic spectacle of fireworks and gripping combat. I do have slight quibbles here that I'll get to in the cons, but on the whole, I feel the action scenes in this movie totally blew away the action scenes in the original TV anime (of course, it's not exactly a fair comparison ).

4. Just the right amount of focus on the Nanoha/Fate relationship. It's obvious that the two girls are best friends and love each other as friends (and possibly more at some point). However, it never felt overly dragged out or sappy to a fault to me. At the end of the day, they're both very practical and serious-minded young girls who are astoundingly mature for their age.

5. The transformation scenes. I was a bit disappointed when Nanoha's first transformation during the initial Vita ambush was made in a blink of an eye, but the later very elaborated transformations for both Nanoha and Fate pretty much made up for it. I was relieved to see that each of them (and later Hayate as well) were given excellently elaborate and magically marvelous transformation scenes. For a bit there, I was worried that Nanoha would actually get one-upped by Madoka Magica in this area, but that looks unlikely now!

6. Gil Graham was a very good morally complex character, and I don't want to take anything away from him there, but I have to admit, I only thought about him once or twice while watching the movie. Ultimately, writing him and his catgirls out of the plot was probably for the best. I'm not sure if this narrative would have been as seamless and smooth otherwise.

7. Certain specific changes were real improvements. The gift-giving scene where Nanoha and Fate end up unexpectedly meeting their Wolkenritter rivals was much better handled here than it was in the TV anime, I think. In the TV anime it just felt awkward. Here, it had this great "Oh shit!" feel to it that was quite powerful and fun! The classroom scenes also felt a bit more realistic, well-refined, and elaborate here. Even the little bit where Fate gave her eraser to a female classmate was a nice touch. This movie in general had a not of "nice touches" to it. I honestly could spend hours and hours just talking about all of the little "nice touch" improvements this made over the TV anime. But that would make this review too long, so I'll probably save it for later.

8. Nanoha vs. Reinforce was one particular action scene that really stood out to me. I mean... Wow. This felt like a total clash of the titans. It had all the intensity and raw, palpable power on display that I see in a great Superman vs. Darkseid struggle. Just totally awesome!

9. But Fate had one equally awesome moment where she arrived just in the nick of time to save Nanoha from that one insane attack by Reinforce.

10. The beginning, and the ending. Having Rein introduce and end the film was simply a stroke of genius. Major kudos to whoever came up with that idea. Hayate's near-death scene was also such a STRONG scene to start off with. And the final scenes of the movie were truly beautiful and heartwarming. Absolutely lovely.


Since I'm sure my effusive praise is probably boring people by now, let's get to the cons.


The Cons

1. What a tease they did with Lindy, man. Honestly, this was probably my biggest disappointment the entire film. Just when I thought I'd get to see what Chrono's mom could do in action, we cut to her calling in the cavalry (Nanoha and Fate). I love Nanoha and Fate, but seriously, it's a real shame we didn't get a couple minutes of Lindy kicking ass.

2. There was a bit too much crying for me. I think they overdid it a bit.

3. I still have some misgivings over the initial action scene. For fighting choreography and sheer technical execution, it was pretty much flawless. But in some ways, it lacked some of the... charming finesse and heart that the same scene in the TV anime had. I still think that Fate saving Nanoha from Vita at the last second and saying to Vita with beautiful confidence and dramatic delivery "We're friends" was a more emotionally rewarding bit to me than any moment in the initial action scene of this movie. I also missed seeing Fate vs. Vita (more on this in a bit). And I suspect that some disliked Yuuno being cut out of this scene. I admit that it would have been nice if he could have been there. Here is probably the one action scene where I'm a bit iffy on the changes that were made. I think they could have had the best of both worlds with a little bit more tweaking. But to be fair, this really is a highly subjective quibble on my part.

4. They stuck a bit too hard to Nanoha vs. Vita and Fate vs. Signum. It would have been nice to see them "trade partners" at least once, if even just for a couple minutes. This is especially since Fate never went directly against Vita in the initial action scene like she did in the TV anime.

5. The destruction of the Book of Darkness Defense Program dragged a bit for me. Given that they played this almost exactly like how they did in the TV anime, that took just about all the suspense out of this final portion of the final action scene for me. Given that lack of suspense, and what point this was at in the movie, I have to admit that I wanted them to kind of speed through this part. But I guess for people that never saw the initial TV anime, it might have been better the way it was done here.

6. Arisa and Suzuka were slightly shafted in this film. I can understand why they were removed from the final action scene, and I don't contest that. But I felt a short scene should have been given to them to kind of make up for that. Personally, I probably would have shaved off a couple minutes of the final action scene in order to squeeze in a scene with Nanoha, Fate, Arisa, Suzuka, and Nanoha's family near/at the end of the film.

7. Nanoha's 'white devil' bit felt natural in the TV anime, but it felt really forced and awkward here. Nanoha's sad, shame-ridden face that just pouts "I hate playing the villain..." with puppy-dog eyes and everything made this bit feel 1000 times more sad and 1000 times less badass than it did in the TV anime. While it is a popular bit, I honestly think it should have been edited out somewhat. With this in mind, maybe it's good that Zod reportedly isn't going to be saying "Kneel before Zod" in the upcoming Man of Steel movie, lol. Classic lines can fall flat sometimes.


And that pretty much sums up the cons. There's nothing else really worth mentioning there. And truth be told, there's loads of other little 'nice touches' I could get into, but I'll save that for later.

I wavered between 9/10 and 10/10 for this film, but I eventually went with 10/10. This is a piece of animated film artwork that truly deserves it, in spite of what quibbles I had.

Welcome back to the big screen, Nanoha!
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Old 2013-03-24, 15:29   Link #539
krisslanza
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Um, but...

In the movie, Signum has flashbacks to when she was talking to Reinforce.

In Canon, their memories are screwed up.

Try again?
From what I remember of that flashback, it was about NachtWal. She didn't say "Whatever you do, don't finish the book because NachtWal will go berserk and kill everything."

I would have to rewatch that scene but I'm pretty sure that's basically the gist. Some later master probably screwed something up, because people don't know how to proper hack and edit a book, clearly.
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Old 2013-03-24, 15:41   Link #540
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
From what I remember of that flashback, it was about NachtWal. She didn't say "Whatever you do, don't finish the book because NachtWal will go berserk and kill everything."

I would have to rewatch that scene but I'm pretty sure that's basically the gist. Some later master probably screwed something up, because people don't know how to proper hack and edit a book, clearly.
Point is, if they can remember Reinforce in the past, surely they could remember the NachtWal as well and what happens when the book is filled.
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