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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's - Rating
Perfect 10 14 23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 26.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 20.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 13.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 5.00%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.67%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-26, 20:57   Link #781
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Given how we're seemingly the only forum on the western side of the fandom that even gives a rats' ass about him, that's not really saying much.
I've spoken to people outside of this forum. They just keep quiet because they know the mere mention of his name tends to spiral threads out of control and devolve into trollsprees and flamefests.

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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Hell, when was the last time he was in a Sound Stage?
Hmmm, StrikerS I believe?
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Old 2013-03-26, 20:59   Link #782
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And, Keroko, those fans who don't say Yuuno's name, well, that's why he gets written out, because Tsuki doesn't SEE them commenting at all if he checks any boards, there's nothing of him that's doing well, so, as far as he can tell, no one cares about him, so that's why he gets written out!

and, yes, it was StrikerS. When, i can't even remember.

Hell, the best thing for Yuuno was Gears of Destiny. Even then, he and Arf got the short end of the stick as they weren't allowed to fight against U-D (even though Chrono did).

I honestly believe that if Vivio and Yuuno didn't share a VA, they wouldn't even keep his VA around.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:06   Link #783
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I do.
So you admit that you wouldn't edit out the Lotus Dream because the majority of Nanoha fans would want to see it. And now you admit that you do get the powerful and beautiful symbolism of the scene. So why have you complained so much about it, Keroko? There's clearly very good reasons for the scene to be there.


Quote:
Claiming that the dream is the only way is actually quite shallow.
It may not be the only way. But it may well be the best way. And I certainly don't think it's shallow to hold that opinion.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:10   Link #784
Keroko
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Because editting isn't as simple as you may think. Remember kill your darlings? Well, in order to fit that scene in, some other darlings had to be killed. Among them Graham and the cat twins and as Nanya so colorfully mentioned for the past few pages, Yuuno's appearance.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:13   Link #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Because editting isn't as simple as you may think. Remember kill your darlings? Well, in order to fit that scene in, some other darlings had to be killed. Among them Graham and the cat twins and as Nanya so colorfully mentioned for the past few pages, Yuuno's appearance.
And importance to the plot.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:17   Link #786
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Because editting isn't as simple as you may think. Remember kill your darlings? Well, in order to fit that scene in, some other darlings had to be killed. Among them Graham and the cat twins and as Nanya so colorfully mentioned for the past few pages, Yuuno's appearance.
Including Graham and the cat twins into the movie narrative, and actually doing them some semblance of justice, would require at least 15 more minutes of content, imo. And it may well take even more than that.

Graham is an excellent character, and it's a bit sad to see him go, but I think action scenes would have had to have been sliced and diced substantially to fit him into the movie.


On the whole, maybe the first half of this movie ought to have stayed closer to the TV anime. It strikes me that many of the complaints about this movie would have been resolved that way. Yuuno being there when Fate saves Nanoha from Vita would have given him more movie presence at least.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:21   Link #787
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
If you must, then yes save it for those timelines. I would prefer a more subtle approach though.
I was just being silly, Keroko my son. I wouldn't really insert a scene like that.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:24   Link #788
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
On the whole, maybe the first half of this movie ought to have stayed closer to the TV anime. It strikes me that many of the complaints about this movie would have been resolved that way. Yuuno being there when Fate saves Nanoha from Vita would have given him more movie presence at least.
I...

...

yes.

Yes, that would have made the movie a LOT better if just for that.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:27   Link #789
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So you admit that you wouldn't edit out the Lotus Dream because the majority of Nanoha fans would want to see it. And now you admit that you do get the powerful and beautiful symbolism of the scene. So why have you complained so much about it, Keroko? There's clearly very good reasons for the scene to be there.
Even though it's crucial to Fate's character development, it's not crucial to the plot of the series. Which I pretty much think is the gist of their reasoning.



Quote:
It may not be the only way. But it may well be the best way. And I certainly don't think it's shallow to hold that opinion.
Ahh words cannot explain how much I love that scene, but I guess you need to at least be somewhat of a fan to fully enjoy it. Even though I think it was exceptionally crafted regardless.

It was probably the key scene that made me look at her and realize how complete she is as a character. Which is why I find it odd that some people are so hellbent on removing it. Seven minutes to achieve that much development, whether it be crucial to the plot or not, I feel is a worthy sacrifice. Character depth is just as important as plot progression, anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya
I...

...

yes.

Yes, that would have made the movie a LOT better if just for that.
I'm about 99% sure that the way the start unfolded was not pandering of any kind. It was simply the result of time constraints. The reinvention of Nanoha and Fate's reunion...Cute as it was...Do you really think Fate(or Nanoha?) fans prefer that over the series? And the other little details during the first quarter of the movie. Like Fate and Arf binding Vita, or Nanoha's breaker through the barrier despite having a hand through her chest.

Nevertheless, I still think the movie did things better as soon as that whole ordeal was over. Excluding a couple other scenes.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:34   Link #790
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Honestly, Demi., considering how many comments I've seen about that scene with the reunion in a positive light in the movie, I'm honestly believing that, yes, yes they do prefer the movie to the series.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:43   Link #791
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You'd get the same reaction with the "we're friends" speech as well, except the NanoFate AND the non-NanoFate crowd will like it. It saved a whole lot of time skipping that scene. Because not only would Fate need to save Nanoha, she would have to fight Vita a bit afterwards, and then they'd have to wait til Nanoha heals, so that she can fire her Starlight Breaker, while Fate is attacking Signum...It's a long process.

This way it was-- NanoFate reunion...Nanoha gets pwned, Fate gets pwned. The end.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:45   Link #792
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
You'd get the same reaction with the "we're friends" speech as well, except the NanoFate AND the non-NanoFate crowd will like it. It saved a whole lot of time skipping that scene. Because not only would Fate need to save Nanoha, she would have to fight Vita a bit afterwards, and then they'd have to wait til Nanoha heals, so that she can fire her Starlight Breaker, while Fate is attacking Signum...It's a long process.

This way it was-- NanoFate reunion...Nanoha gets pwned, Fate gets pwned. The end.
Yes, it only took away from Fate's BDH moment, Nanoha's determinator moment, Arf showing she was pretty awesome...

Oh wait, we put Fate's BDH moment at the end, screwing Nanoha AND Hayate over.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:49   Link #793
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Because it was a 10-second scene that was kind of necessary considering Nanoha and Fate's exchange of words at the end.

Also I don't see how Nanoha giving Reinforce such a hard time that the effect of it was being felt within Hayates dreamworld...is any worse than what happened in the A's series.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:52   Link #794
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It's because in the series, it showed Hayate having the strength of will to stop things and try and save herself regardless of what was going on outside, and Nanoha showing off yes, she bloody well has the power to bust Reinforce's ass.

The change instead turned it into Nanoha not being strong enough to stop Reinforce and Hayate being too weak-willed to stop the Book's programming without help, while giving Fate another moment to shine. By giving Fate this new moment, it diminished Nanoha and Hayate, be it accidental on the creator's part or not.
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:59   Link #795
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Well, it certainly makes less than no sense to me on how Nanoha can stop Reinforce, who essentially has her magical power as well as the power of dozens if not hundreds of other magical beings. She gave her a heck of a fight, regardless. And it's not really "the power to stop her" if Hayate's just rendering Reinforce defenseless.

Welp, Hayate still woke up and took command in the movie. And they gave her a far better henshin than what she had in the series to boot.
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Old 2013-03-26, 22:01   Link #796
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Nanoha would've lost in the main series too, if Hayate hadn't been able to halt the defense program, the Book really was that much more powerful. But she was able to hold off on her own long enough for it to happen--in the movie, however, she needed Fate to pull her ass out of the fire, making her look weaker.

I don't think it was deliberate on Tsuzuki's part; I think he was going for a scene not unlike Nanoha and Fate wrecking that last robot in the last movie. I do think he didn't quite think it through trying to achieve that, though.
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Old 2013-03-27, 01:56   Link #797
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And, Keroko, those fans who don't say Yuuno's name, well, that's why he gets written out, because Tsuki doesn't SEE them commenting at all if he checks any boards, there's nothing of him that's doing well, so, as far as he can tell, no one cares about him, so that's why he gets written out!
You say that like this is something western forums can seriously affect. Even if he was the most popular character over here he'd still probably be written out if the local fans don't like him. It's not a very localized series, so they can't take all sects into consideration.
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Old 2013-03-27, 04:07   Link #798
Keroko
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Including Graham and the cat twins into the movie narrative, and actually doing them some semblance of justice, would require at least 15 more minutes of content, imo. And it may well take even more than that.

Graham is an excellent character, and it's a bit sad to see him go, but I think action scenes would have had to have been sliced and diced substantially to fit him into the movie.
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Even though it's crucial to Fate's character development, it's not crucial to the plot of the series. Which I pretty much think is the gist of their reasoning.
Pretty much that. They cut out a character essential to the story of A's and rewrote quite a bit in order for the story to still make sense (which didn't go without the occasional plothole, but they did a fairly good job) but left in a scene that had... nothing to do with the ongoing A's plot whatsoever.

They only reason they left it in was because the fans would murder them if they didn't. I may not appreciate it on the same level, but it is one of the more memorable scenes of A's for many people.

But since it's in... I wish they had kept Fate breakout the same as the series. As the others said, having Fate's breakout be done solely by herself and it being the reason Hayate wakes up... diminishes Hayate's strength of character. In the series, Fate's escape was a joint effort. Hayate (who woke up on her own) kept Reinforce pinned and defenseless, Nanoha blasted her from the outside while Fate blasted her from the inside. It was a teamwork thing rather than "Fate saves the day... because we need a scene of Fate saving the day."
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Old 2013-03-27, 07:29   Link #799
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You know...

I could have lived with ALL of the Fate pandering, the NanoFate fluff, Yuuno basically being written completely out of the story (or even if he had been) if the movie had just done ONE thing...

Give us some awesome moments.

There wasn't ONE!

It was pandering to Fate of the HIGHEST order!

Fine! I can LIVE with the fact that you're going to ignore the rest of the fanbase just for one character's fans! I can live with that, I can understand that, you get money from them.

But... WHERE'S the awesome moments?!

There was no scene of Nanoha being a determinator in this movie.

The action scenes were bland, boring and forgettable.

Hell, I haven't watched canon in awhile, but I can practically recite EVERY SINGLE MOMENT from the first fight sequence just because it was THAT memorable!

Fate dominated practically EVERY moment for the Protagonists for development and screen time.

While this is nice for Fate and NanoFate fans, it's a MAJOR disservice to the rest of us!

Seriously, when the 2nd fight happened in the movie, just as Nanoha and Vita's fight started to heat up...

CUT to Signum vs Fate. Okay fine... But JUST as we start to get past the point that the desert fight had, and we could finally see how THAT would end...

CUT to Arf and Zafira exchanging one punch and then the fight ends.

Whut? /deadpan

WHERE was the awesome there?! WHERE WAS IT?!

Okay, fine, let's cut to Reinforce vs Nanoha now...

NOW the movie is starting to look somewhat interesting, hell, seeing Photon Lancer Genocide Shift in the movie was ACTUALLY FUCKING IMPRESSIVE!

But, INSTEAD of showing Nanoha actually getting OUT of that, showing some chops and giving us a memorable moment...

CUT back to Fate in the Lotus Dream Eater!

ARRRRGH!

You see?!

THAT is the problem!

I KNEW that Yuuno was barely going to be in the movie (if he'd be in at all) considering how the 1st movie was (badly) handled. I KNEW that Fate was going to get the majority of the screen time. I KNEW that it would pander to the NanoFate crowd.

But I had HOPE that this movie would at LEAST show some awesome action sequences to make up for it!

But no. No, no, no, no, no... Nooooooooooo.

Can't POSSIBLY let THAT happen, can we?

There was NOTHING in the action sequences that makes up for this movie, at all.

ALL I was wanting in this movie was some good action sequences. That's it!

Instead I got NOTHING at all!

If you think that removal of the Lotus Dream Eater, the Stick Training or the NanoFate/Fate fluff/pandering would have been a disservice to the fans, think about how those of us who aren't Fate or NanoFate fans feel with the MASSIVE disservice done to the rest of the cast AND canon with this movie.
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Old 2013-03-27, 08:08   Link #800
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Well honestly Nanoha vs Reinforce was pretty epic in my opinion...
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