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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's - Rating
Perfect 10 14 23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 26.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 20.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 13.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 5.00%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.67%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-28, 18:56   Link #1001
Nanya01
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The problem is, Demi., is this...

Even though the BDH moment is missing and it hurts Fate a lot...

The fact that yuuno has next to zero screen time just hurts the comments that a lot of people are making in defending Fate. Fact is, in the series, until he went to the library, Yuuno was on screen with Fate, Nanoha and Arf for a pretty decent chunk.

Removing his screen time and keeping Fate just makes it more apparent.

Remember, it took Yuuno well over 13 minutes to even show up in the movie.

So, despite how you say that Fate had no other shining scenes (which I do agree with, then again, no one else had any shining scenes save for Shamal really) in the movie, well...

Yeah...

Look, not saying you shouldn't expect Fate scenes. I liked the scenes with her and Lindy talking, that was nice and I felt that was needed for Fate's character growth.

The NanoFate scenes, though, I felt really were pointless as they didn't show much anything there other than 'hey, we're super close friends who are lovey-dovey'.
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Last edited by Nanya01; 2013-03-28 at 19:00. Reason: Clarifying something
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Old 2013-03-28, 18:59   Link #1002
Demi.
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post

The fact that yuuno has next to zero screen time just hurts the comments that a lot of people are making in defending Fate. Fact is, in the series, until he went to the library, Yuuno was on screen with Fate, Nanoha and Arf for a pretty decent chunk.
I obviously cant remember such a minor scene from a series I watched years ago... yet why is this Fates fault if they could have added him into the scene without removing Fate? Not to mention Fate was apparently not the only one with him at the time.

Quote:
Look, not saying you shouldn't expect Fate scenes. I liked the scenes with her and Lindy talking, that was nice and I felt that was needed for Fate's character growth.

The NanoFate scenes, though, I felt really were pointless as they didn't show much anything there other than 'hey, we're super close friends who are lovey-dovey'.
It was, it also gave greater emphasis on the dream scene when it happened.

Is 5-10minutes a lot of time to focus on a really popular pairing? It would be kind of odd if after the events of the first season, they didn't have some moments where they could bond, would it not? The series was chocked full of that stuff.
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Old 2013-03-28, 19:01   Link #1003
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I obviously cant remember such a minor scene from a series I watched years ago... yet why is this Fates fault if they could have added him into the scene without removing Fate? Not to mention Fate was apparently not the only one with him at the time.
You can't? Demi., sometimes I think maybe you should re-watch the series then.

Anyway, I added something to my above post.
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Old 2013-03-28, 19:26   Link #1004
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Anyways...while I'm not particularly fond of it, the only way I think it would be fair to remove Fate's dream, is if Nanoha and Fate double teamed Reinforce in the final battle. If the book just sucks her up and herpderps her until Nanoha is finished fighting, that would be terrible.

At least this way, she can be a bad ass in battle...
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Old 2013-03-28, 19:31   Link #1005
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Actually, Demi., I think I suggested that earlier, instead of the LDE, having Fate and Nanoha fight against Reinforce, thus giving a truly battle of the titans feel for the movie.

Plus showing the power of teamwork and friendship.
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Old 2013-03-28, 19:31   Link #1006
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Haruhi was the titular character in the Haruhi movie, and what happened to her exactly? And this was Canon off of the novel to boot. Having your name in the title does not make you the only one deserving of copious amounts of screentime. I certainly don't think Fate is more important than Nanoha, but they are the two main characters of the franchise. They're the only ones that have stuck around all three seasons, and still had a fair share of screen time. There is no reason for that to change in these movies.
'Deuteragonist' is a good term to describe Fate's role, I think.
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Old 2013-03-28, 20:05   Link #1007
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Haruhi was the titular character in the Haruhi movie, and what happened to her exactly? And this was Canon off of the novel to boot. Having your name in the title does not make you the only one deserving of copious amounts of screentime. I certainly don't think Fate is more important than Nanoha, but they are the two main characters of the franchise. They're the only ones that have stuck around all three seasons, and still had a fair share of screen time. There is no reason for that to change in these movies.
So what? Nanoha isn't Haruhi. What is wrong with wanting the main character, the one with the name in the title, to get the most development? That seems to be the arguement you keep using for Fate: she's a main character, and thus deserves more development. I'm merely reusing your argument for Nanoha... and then you suddenly have a problem with it!

Quote:
Are you willing to give up Nanoha's fight with Reinforce?
Yes, I am. Dead serious. Nanoha has already given up her early SLB, and then also partially already given up her battle with Reinforce (sharing it with Fate now). I'd actually give more time to having Chrono fight it (along with Chrono, and possibly Fate). Read below to where I'll get more specific.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Instead of re-hashing old arguments, I've decided I'm going to try to work outside the box. Let's look at some scenes that haven't been discussed much at all when it comes to the movie, and see if any of them are expendable.

...

My point is that you don't necessarily need to trim any Fate or NanoFate (well, aside from maybe the training scene, and a touch less Lotus Eater Dream) in order to get what you want for Lindy/Chrono.
Heh, funny you should ask this, because I was already in the process of getting time stamps to list what I'd cut. But it also depends on what needs to be added to properly address them. Let me give what I'd cut, as things not vital to the plot:

0:17 to 0:52 Rein's initial narration - 40 seconds
6:20 to 7:00 Nanoha and Fate meeting - 40 seconds
7:45 to 8:21 Fate joining Nanoha's class - 36 seconds
11:28 to 13:23 Nanoha and Fate walking and talking - 113 seconds
13:24 to 13:40 Nanoha talking to Yuuno in the library - 16 seconds
29:58 to 30:16 Nanoha and Fate stick training - 18 seconds
32:16 to 32:37 Fate gives someone an eraser in school - 21 seconds
38:23 to 42:00 Transformation sequences - 217 seconds
56:27 to 56:54 Hayate, Signum, Shamal talking about knight armor - 27 seconds
2:16:52 to 2:17:46 Lindy and Leti talking (might cut Leti entirely) - 54 seconds
2:21:09 to 2:21:40 Nanoha and Fate walking - 31 seconds
2:24:43 to 2:25:09 Scenes of Hayate talking with Ishida - 26 seconds
2:25:10 to 2:25:40 Nanoha showing RH to Arisa and Suzuka - 30 seconds

Total: 669 seconds or 11 minutes and 9 seconds. Note that I might not end up having to cut all of this (and you'll note it is not all Fate or NanoFate scenes), depending on the time it would take for the two paths I have come up with, which I'll detail below.

Note that I HAVE left in the following Fate and NanoFate scenes:
Nanoha and Fate talking and holding hands after being drained
Nanoha and Fate talking in Nanoha's room about the Wolks
Fate's talk with Lindy about Clyde, and her own mommy issues
Plus some others where Nanoha and Fate are on the same screen and next to each other, talking with others, etc. Still PLENTY of screentime.

Oh, and for the record,a s far as Fate's dream is concerned:
1:32:46 to 1:35:51 Initial wake up scene to breakfast - 185 seconds
1:38:44 to 1:40:35 Fate/Alicia - 111 seconds
1:43:34 to 1:45:11 Fate/Alicia - 97 seconds
1:45:37 to 1:46:40 Fate transforming Bardiche to Zanber and escaping - 63 seconds

Total: 456 seconds or 7 minutes and 36 seconds. I don't exactly plan to cut this, but I did want to get an accurate count of the time it takes up, just so we're on the same page.

Now, remember my Chrono dream scenario from before? He'd be absorbed first, and Fate would go in after him. That's something I'd definitely want to do, and I'd probably cut Fate's dream sequence in half so Chrono could share it (and they'd have part of it together as well, as brother/sister, so still a Fate scene overall, just sharing it). I might not need all 11 minutes to handle this, though (working on a fic at the moment that details what I'd like), but I may use some time for something else. But this would give me the time to have Chrono and Lindy resolve their feelings towards the Book; Chrono moreso than Lindy (she would have better accepted Clyde's death, so her only real development would be in learning to listen to and trust her new daughter to save Chrono).

You see, what I'd do with some of the extra time, is give a bit more to the first encounter. Fate and Arf would intervene and quickly double-team Vita while she's draining Nanoha, interrupting it (but Nanoha is still significantly drained). Vita gets down for the count and bound, before Signum and Zafira show up to tussle with them. I'd have Fate fight a bit more evenly with Signum, and for a bit longer (Arf with Zafira as well). But Vita gets back up and helps overwhelm Fate while Shamal traps Arf and Zafira knocks her out. Signum starts draining Fate.

It's at this time that Lindy *and* Chrono finally shows up with Enforcer backup (or just the hint that the DAB is starting to gather), forcing the Wolks into retreat (maybe with Nanoha managing an SLB to shatter the barrier, although I might just have Lindy break it). Probably have Lindy and Chrono come on strong with attacks that surprise Signum and Vita, and partially due to their low number of cartridges remaining, they decide to retreat. I'd probably dedicate about an extra 5 mins or so. But this way, Nanoha and Fate aren't completely drained and can recover faster, and aren't strangely left recoverable by the Wolks. But this part is optional.

And you'll note I still left Yuuno out of this. Despite him also being a favorite character of mine, I recognize that he doesn't need a scene here. This is what I meant about sacrifice for the sake of the plot. He's needed to dig up some information in the library, and let Nanoha and Fate know the solution in the final battle, and also probably assist in the final battle, too.

But there you have it. You honestly wouldn't really miss the cuts I made; if they never existed in the first place, you can't honestly say the movie would have sucked without them. You still would have gotten most everything you got in the series (minus the ep7 fights). And we'd still probably be able to fit some of them back in that I would have cut, depending on time.

I have Sakura con to go to tomorrow and through the weekend, so if I can't get my fic out tonight, it might not be until next week sometime.
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Old 2013-03-28, 20:32   Link #1008
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So what? Nanoha isn't Haruhi. What is wrong with wanting the main character, the one with the name in the title, to get the most development? That seems to be the arguement you keep using for Fate: she's a main character, and thus deserves more development. I'm merely reusing your argument for Nanoha... and then you suddenly have a problem with it!
You're right, but your reasoning was, "Because Nanoha's name is in the title she is the only main character, and everyone else merely supports her" If Haruhi is the titular character and she outright disappeared throughout 90% of the Haruhi movie, then why is Nanoha any different? I'm not saying Nanoha doesn't deserve development, what I'm saying is Nanoha's screen time is used differently than Fate. She's not shafted, she never has been. But you could easily cut some of her copious amounts of battle time for more development to her character. And then, she would be exactly like Fate. Not much in terms of action, but a bunch of nice character exposition. Nanoha and Fate work in very different ways, it's not because one or the other is a glory hog.


Quote:
Yes, I am. Dead serious. Nanoha has already given up her early SLB, and then also partially already given up her battle with Reinforce (sharing it with Fate now). I'd actually give more time to having Chrono fight it (along with Chrono, and possibly Fate). Read below to where I'll get more specific.
I have a hard time believing this, but if it's true, then power to you. Yet if you think Nanoha is already shafted, I can only imagine what you would think without that scene.



Quote:
Heh, funny you should ask this, because I was already in the process of getting time stamps to list what I'd cut. But it also depends on what needs to be added to properly address them. Let me give what I'd cut, as things not vital to the plot:

0:17 to 0:52 Rein's initial narration - 40 seconds
6:20 to 7:00 Nanoha and Fate meeting - 40 seconds
7:45 to 8:21 Fate joining Nanoha's class - 36 seconds
11:28 to 13:23 Nanoha and Fate walking and talking - 113 seconds
13:24 to 13:40 Nanoha talking to Yuuno in the library - 16 seconds
29:58 to 30:16 Nanoha and Fate stick training - 18 seconds
32:16 to 32:37 Fate gives someone an eraser in school - 21 seconds
38:23 to 42:00 Transformation sequences - 217 seconds
56:27 to 56:54 Hayate, Signum, Shamal talking about knight armor - 27 seconds
2:16:52 to 2:17:46 Lindy and Leti talking (might cut Leti entirely) - 54 seconds
2:21:09 to 2:21:40 Nanoha and Fate walking - 31 seconds
2:24:43 to 2:25:09 Scenes of Hayate talking with Ishida - 26 seconds
2:25:10 to 2:25:40 Nanoha showing RH to Arisa and Suzuka - 30 seconds

I can't help but feel that if it was left up to you Kaijo, you would make it boring for a lot more fans than those it would benefit. If the goal is to remove every scene that isn't entirely relevant to the plot, it's going to feel pretty stale to the fans who don't give a rats ass about the plot...Which is the majority of people watching it in theaters. The general populace already love the movie. That is, those who are not trying to search for its faults. Nanoha did not garner it's fan base from storytelling, or witty dialogue. Nanoha is about magical battles and moe, which I feel you're trying to heavily damage the latter. Oh right, and friendship.
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Old 2013-03-28, 20:41   Link #1009
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Anyways...while I'm not particularly fond of it, the only way I think it would be fair to remove Fate's dream, is if Nanoha and Fate double teamed Reinforce in the final battle. If the book just sucks her up and herpderps her until Nanoha is finished fighting, that would be terrible.

At least this way, she can be a bad ass in battle...
Well yeah, having Fate stand on the side as some sort of peanut gallery for no reason would be terrible storytelling.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:00   Link #1010
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
You're right, but your reasoning was, "Because Nanoha's name is in the title she is the only main character, and everyone else merely supports her" If Haruhi is the titular character and she outright disappeared throughout 90% of the Haruhi movie, then why is Nanoha any different? I'm not saying Nanoha doesn't deserve development, what I'm saying is Nanoha's screen time is used differently than Fate. She's not shafted, she never has been. But you could easily cut some of her copious amounts of battle time for more development to her character. And then, she would be exactly like Fate. Not much in terms of action, but a bunch of nice character exposition. Nanoha and Fate work in very different ways, it's not because one or the other is a glory hog.
Understand that it was not I that brought up the argument of "main character." You, and your side, brought up the argument to defend Fate's development. "Well, she's a main character, so of course she should get development over mere side characters!" Something like that. And so, I merely toss the argument back at you. Like I said, if you don't like that argument, we can drop it.

But if so, then you get no more arguments who who is deserving of screentime based on character status. Agree? You willing to drop the "because main character!" argument totally?

Quote:
I have a hard time believing this, but if it's true, then power to you. Yet if you think Nanoha is already shafted, I can only imagine what you would think without that scene.
As I said, the plot of the movie is more important to me than any one character. Hence when I laid out the two sides above. One side cares more about 1 or 2 characters above all else. The other prefers balance and what is best for the plot.

Quote:
I can't help but feel that if it was left up to you Kaijo, you would make it boring for a lot more fans than those it would benefit. If the goal is to remove every scene that isn't entirely relevant to the plot, it's going to feel pretty stale to the fans who don't give a rats ass about the plot...Which is the majority of people watching it in theaters. The general populace already love the movie. That is, those who are not trying to search for its faults. Nanoha did not garner it's fan base from storytelling, or witty dialogue. Nanoha is about magical battles and moe, which I feel you're trying to heavily damage the latter. Oh right, and friendship.
We all like to think that our viewpoints are the prevailing ones. It is an outgrowth of the idea that we are the center of our own universe. I am not so arrogant as to presume that everyone fell in love with Nanoha for the exact same reasons as me. The reasons you came to like it are yours, and to be fair, yes, there are a number of other people who like Fate.

But you can't sit there and pretend that there isn't a more varied fan base. Well, I suppose you can pretend if you want. But I find it really odd that a supposed Fate fan really wants to diminish the character they claim to love, by having her regurgitate her same plot issues over and over again, instead of allowing her branch out and explore things like her relationship with Chrono and Lindy. That even taking 30 seconds or 5 minutes away from her, somehow means the end of the world.

That's not healthy, dude. If you can't stomach your favorite character losing 5 or 10 minutes, when they they probably have at least half the screen time in a 2.5 hour movie, then I'd highly suggest you take a step back and reevaluate. Because it makes the rest of us see this. Fate losing 5 or 10 minutes will not kill the franchise nor chase people away. Especially since she's probably not losing that much, due to an expanded dream sequence that showcases her feelings and development toward her new family. And being a bit more badass in the first encounter.

But all you can see is what is taken away... not what you gain.

The franchise wasn't dying before we knew there was a scene where Fate gave a classmate an eraser. The franchise will continue on even if that scene never existed. It's not the end of the world.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:28   Link #1011
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Understand that it was not I that brought up the argument of "main character." You, and your side, brought up the argument to defend Fate's development. "Well, she's a main character, so of course she should get development over mere side characters!" Something like that. And so, I merely toss the argument back at you. Like I said, if you don't like that argument, we can drop it.

But if so, then you get no more arguments who who is deserving of screentime based on character status. Agree? You willing to drop the "because main character!" argument totally?
Because main characters should get more screen time then mere side characters. Fate's simply not a side character. When did the series ever indicate otherwise? Yuki Nagato is not a side character either, so if they decide to focus on her more for one of the installments, then that's fair game as well. Now if they spent considerable time on Asakura Ryouko at the expensive of Haruhi or Yuki...Then it becomes an issue. Of course, it makes zero sense to do this, both on a technical point of view, and on a business point.

Quote:
As I said, the plot of the movie is more important to me than any one character. Hence when I laid out the two sides above. One side cares more about 1 or 2 characters above all else. The other prefers balance and what is best for the plot.
As long as the individual scenes can stand on their own, I really could care less about the plot. I'll save that for the franchises I feel made good use of story telling in the past.


Quote:
We all like to think that our viewpoints are the prevailing ones. It is an outgrowth of the idea that we are the center of our own universe. I am not so arrogant as to presume that everyone fell in love with Nanoha for the exact same reasons as me. The reasons you came to like it are yours, and to be fair, yes, there are a number of other people who like Fate.

But you can't sit there and pretend that there isn't a more varied fan base. Well, I suppose you can pretend if you want. But I find it really odd that a supposed Fate fan really wants to diminish the character they claim to love, by having her regurgitate her same plot issues over and over again, instead of allowing her branch out and explore things like her relationship with Chrono and Lindy. That even taking 30 seconds or 5 minutes away from her, somehow means the end of the world.
I know my viewpoint holds pretty solid ground based on the opinions and reviews I've seen all through out the internet. Whether it be from Japan, or some other country. Who would I rather put my faith in? A group of critics that like to get technical and find flaws in the series almost anyone else would overlook, or anime sites with over a thousand ratings that give the movie overwhelmingly high marks? Honestly, the people you refer to who want a "more varied story" well, they're the ones who will watch it once and be done with the series. That's not who Tsuzuki wants to cater to.



Lets put this into perspective:

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha A's
Score: 8.231 (scored by 15208 users)
Members: 25,428
Favorites: 695

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha the movie 2nd A's
Score: 8.501 (scored by 1013 users)
Members: 4,624
Favorites: 32

Yes, I'm aware the series has far, far more members who watched it, yet the movie released a mere week ago. The score only continues to rise. And 1000 ratings is a sizable enough number to get the gist of how people feel about it. Yet you feel your changes would somehow make the movie even more loved. Topping that of the series, and the movie that reinvented it. Why not go and be a director or a screen writer if you feel so confident about it?

Source:
http://myanimelist.net/anime/10153/M...e_Movie_2nd_As
http://myanimelist.net/anime/77/Maho...ical_Nanoha_As

Quote:
That's not healthy, dude. If you can't stomach your favorite character losing 5 or 10 minutes, when they they probably have at least half the screen time in a 2.5 hour movie, then I'd highly suggest you take a step back and reevaluate. Because it makes the rest of us see this. Fate losing 5 or 10 minutes will not kill the franchise nor chase people away. Especially since she's probably not losing that much, due to an expanded dream sequence that showcases her feelings and development toward her new family. And being a bit more badass in the first encounter.

But all you can see is what is taken away... not what you gain.

The franchise wasn't dying before we knew there was a scene where Fate gave a classmate an eraser. The franchise will continue on even if that scene never existed. It's not the end of the world.
You want to remove a number of scenes. Turning the franchise into something it's really not. All of the lighthearted moments you want scrapped for plot relevance. I wouldn't consider that " Scrapping Fate giving a classmate an eraser and being done with it." Quite frankly, I don't care what you see in me. I think of you all as overly critical of the amount of "excessive" screen time Fate doesn't even have.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:32   Link #1012
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Because main characters should get more screen time then mere side characters. Fate's simply not a side character. When did the series ever indicate otherwise? Yuki Nagato is not a side character either, so if they decide to focus on her more for one of the installments, then that's fair game as well. Now if they spent considerable time on Asakura Ryouko at the expensive of Haruhi or Yuki...Then it becomes an issue. Of course, it makes zero sense to do this, both on a technical point of view, and on a business point.
So... you don't see Nanoha as a main character, essentially.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:34   Link #1013
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*sigh*

Quote:
All of the lighthearted moments you want scrapped for plot relevance. I wouldn't consider that " Scrapping Fate giving a classmate an eraser and being done with it." Quite frankly, I don't care what you see in me. I think of you all as overly critical of the amount of "excessive" screen time Fate doesn't even have.
That seems to be the big discontent here in regards to the A's movie...

Those who want the movie to focus on Fate and NanoFate

And those who want more rich action, characters and plot.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:40   Link #1014
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So... you don't see Nanoha as a main character, essentially.
Huh, I specifically stated that she was a main character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya
Those who want the movie to focus on Fate and NanoFate
Fate, Nanoha, NanoFate, Reinforce, Hayate, Wolkenritter. Yes, that.

I wouldn't have even added Reinforce there prior to seeing the movie.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:43   Link #1015
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Huh, I specifically stated that she was a main character.



Fate, Nanoha, NanoFate, Reinforce, Hayate, Wolkenritter. Yes, that.

I wouldn't have even added Reinforce there prior to seeing the movie.
Well...

It's a step up at least.
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Old 2013-03-28, 21:49   Link #1016
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Because main characters should get more screen time then mere side characters.
I think this sums you up pretty well, and what we all knew prior to this. Fate is the only important one, and to hell with anyone that is not Fate. How dare they even exist? Ya know, at least the zany NanoFate crowd is honest about their hate for Yuuno, and confine their hate to him, a single character.

Quote:
I know my viewpoint holds pretty solid ground based on the opinions and reviews I've seen all through out the internet.
Well, if we heard it on the internet, it must be true!

*chuckles* Man, this takes me back to the Ranma 1/2 fandom. The Akane fans (of which I was one), and the Ukyo fans, and the Shampoo fans... Akane fans, in particular, liked to proclaim their viewpoint as valid, because most people agreed with them.

Then there is the Tenchi fandom, where similar things happened. And so on and so forth in many other fandoms. And the Last Airbender fandom... *shudders* If I had a nickel for everytime someone wanted to proclaim their viewpoint as being the majority, and hacked up some kind of internet stats to support themselves....

Ah, kids... to be that age again, like a teenager, convinced I knew everything and was right....

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Why not go and be a director or a screen writer if you feel so confident about it?
That's why I started writing, actually. And yes, as sucky as I am, I somehow managed to accumulate a decent amount of fans, who like my humorous fics, or my Crisis storyline, or Future Tense. Quite a few of those, I've had offers from people to write fics in them, or have them translated to different languages.

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You want to remove a number of scenes. Turning the franchise into something it's really not.
Heh, I want to scrap about 11 minutes of screentime (and that was just tossed out as the max possible number of scenes I'd scrap, leaving the door open for keeping some of them), not all of which were Fate ones. Most were lighthearted scenes, yes... but I was replacing them with more action... something you said was one of the series mainstay attractions.

So, I am confused. If I am putting in more of what the fans want, according to you, what is the problem? I suppose I know what you'll say now, since you consider Fate giving an eraser to someone a vital scene in a movie.

Oh, I have some good news for you, then! I heard a rumor that in the third movie, there will be a scene where Fate clips her toe nails for 30 full seconds! And then she walks along the street and chats about the price of ramen for 2 minutes! Who's excited!? I'm sure that will REALLY add to the movie's plot!
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Old 2013-03-28, 22:05   Link #1017
Demi.
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I think this sums you up pretty well, and what we all knew prior to this. Fate is the only important one, and to hell with anyone that is not Fate. How dare they even exist? Ya know, at least the zany NanoFate crowd is honest about their hate for Yuuno, and confine their hate to him, a single character.
I'm not sure if you deliberately ignore what I say, or you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Fate's my favorite character, that's as plain as day. Yet you blow the whole thing out of proportion. You think Fate has the most screen time yet that is factually untrue. Nanoha has just as much, if not more than Fate. I'm perfectly fine with that. You, however, seem to think Nanoha is somehow shafted as well, despite having so much screen time. Reinforce, Hayate, and the Wolkenritter are also okay in terms of screen time. Reinforce makes huge headway in this movie. I'm perfectly fine with that. Hayate receives a little more focus compared to the series, the wolkenritter about break even. All of the main characters were treated well in this movie compared to their series counterpart. Except maybe Signum? The fights Fate had to sacrifice also meant Signum had to sacrifice them as well. The characters that got screwed, were the minor characters. Yet I feel this is perfectly normal in a movie that was cut in half. It's not any one of the main characters fault that it happened, so why is the blame being pushed onto a single character?


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Well, if we heard it on the internet, it must be true!
I fail to see how series ratings from the largest anime list site is "hearing it from the internet" Is not a thousand random opinions enough to get a grasp of the majority view?


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Heh, I want to scrap about 11 minutes of screentime (and that was just tossed out as the max possible number of scenes I'd scrap, leaving the door open for keeping some of them), not all of which were Fate ones. Most were lighthearted scenes, yes... but I was replacing them with more action... something you said was one of the series mainstay attractions.
The movie wasn't overloaded with fluff to begin with. Eleven minutes is quite a lot given that. Replacing it with action, oh really? And how does this action have relevance to the plot? 'Cause y'know, that's why you were scrapping scenes in the first place.

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So, I am confused. If I am putting in more of what the fans want, according to you, what is the problem? I suppose I know what you'll say now, since you consider Fate giving an eraser to someone a vital scene in a movie.
Look, you can remove Fate giving the student an eraser, if it will put that stupid example to rest.

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Oh, I have some good news for you, then! I heard a rumor that in the third movie, there will be a scene where Fate clips her toe nails for 30 full seconds! And then she walks along the street and chats about the price of ramen for 2 minutes! Who's excited!? I'm sure that will REALLY add to the movie's plot!
The foot fetishist in me likes where this is going.
The problem with you (again), is that you blow everything out of proportion. Extreme examples isn't going to better your cause. Because those extreme examples did in-fact not happen in the movie.
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Old 2013-03-28, 22:18   Link #1018
Rising Dragon
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Huh, I specifically stated that she was a main character.
And yet your argument basically acts like she isn't, because it's pretty much "Who gives a crap if it's not about Fate?"
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Old 2013-03-28, 22:19   Link #1019
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I'm taking your positions to their logical conclusion, Demi. If you don't like where they are going, then it might behoove you to evaluate the position in the first place. Maybe I am overblowing things a little, but you were the one who used the "mere side characters" phrase.

And again, you have a huge problem with removing 5 minutes or so of fluff that doesn't impact the plot at all; some of which was Yuuno, Nanoha, Hayate *and* Lindy! That's called "being objective." I get why, though... yes, you like Fate. And there is nothing wrong with that. Where you have your problem, is trying to declare that your likes and dislikes are more important than everyone else. Yes, you'll mostly run to try and dredge up some statistics or something. You don't really understand why people will dislike you for that. Then again, as I said, I've been where you are now. As such, I know you won't really understand for years.

I'll say this much: there are a lot of people who love Nanoha for its rich and varied cast. They like to see each get some development. There are more of them then you might suspect. But because they don't rate the movie a 9 or a 10, and because they dare suggest minor changes, that drives you nuts.

Lastly, I'll repeat: The changes I would have brought about, would get Fate more development, give an opportunity to showcase more emotion, as well as more action. So I thought it would be something you would like. And yet, because it gives attention to a mere side character, you are against it? Or do you just prefer fluff over everything else?
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Old 2013-03-28, 22:30   Link #1020
Demi.
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
And yet your argument basically acts like she isn't, because it's pretty much "Who gives a crap if it's not about Fate?"
All I can say is that you either glimpsed over everything I said, or did not read it at all. My argument is that both Nanoha and Fate have just the right amount of screen time.

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Lastly, I'll repeat: The changes I would have brought about, would get Fate more development, give an opportunity to showcase more emotion, as well as more action. So I thought it would be something you would like. And yet, because it gives attention to a mere side character, you are against it? Or do you just prefer fluff over everything else?
I just don't buy the emotional impact it would have until I see it for myself. Not to mention how much time it would take in order to make it effective. Something that is rushed, will no doubt lose emotional value.

And I feel things have strongly drifted away from the focal point. My original opinion was that Fate in no way hogged the screen. People here have a knack for saying otherwise, and it really grates at my nerves. Which is why I'm going to eventually confirm the screen time for each character in the movie.

If you think you can do better with the movie without simply eating away at the screen time Fate does have, then go for it. Nevertheless, I do feel the fluff is an important aspect of the series as a whole, and this movie.
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