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Old 2006-11-09, 12:33   Link #1
Ryukage
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[Manga] Mangekyou Sharingan

So the Mangekyou Sharingan deteriates eyesight? So that means that when the users eyes are normal it's terrible vision? Does this also mean that when in MS state the eyesight is bad to?
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Old 2006-11-09, 12:39   Link #2
Xrayz0r
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Apparently using 3 MS jutsu within half a day wears Itachi out up to the point he has to deactivate Sharingan and do nothing but rest. So let's say one jutsu takes about 30% of his entire capacity. That amount of chakra concentrated on such a small part of the body... it's no surprise it makes the eyes deteriorate. Bit by bit the more it is used apparently, as Kisame semi pointed out.

We could say it's similar to Naruto's Kyuubi states. No problem while using it, but it shortens his lifespan. So likely no, eyesight isn't all blurry while using MS. I'd say it is just the after effect.
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Old 2006-11-09, 13:40   Link #3
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Kind of like Xrayz0r is that it would have to be on the after effect. The entire basis of the core Sharingan ability is the enhanced ability to discern pretty much anything.

That is to say, that Sharingan makes eyes work to their fullest (which is why a regular sharingan tires Kakashi out). With an Uchiha body, the Sharingan is to be less draining (probly meaning that they suffer no natural drawback to the strain on using their eyes to such an extent).

However, Mangekyou Sharingan is not like the normal Sharingan, as it not only allows the new abilities, but as we saw from Itachi grabbing Sasuke's arm that had the Chidori in it, and when Sasuke was fighting Naruto, it notices even more, making the eyes surpass their limits. This strain while at the start would be an effective advantage in the battle, in the end, one is left so strained and exausted from the ordeal that the biggest strength is initself the largest weakness.

We might surmize that because of continual pushing the limits of their eyes that they can degrade how well their eyes will work, and concurrently how well the MS will work from then on in the future.
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Old 2006-11-09, 14:56   Link #4
Sabaku Kyu
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I'm not sure it's strictly the MS that's causing Itachi's eyesight to worsen. Have you noticed that Itachi keeps his Sharingan activated nearly all the time? He only deactivates it when he's exhausted. Otherwise, even when there's no danger present, his Sharingan is constantly active. Because of his mastery over the technique and his Uchiha blood, he can probably keep it active with minimal strain on his body but the long term effects of that habit may be wearing on his eyesight.
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Old 2006-11-09, 18:50   Link #5
Lollerpants
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsuno View Post
Kind of like Xrayz0r is that it would have to be on the after effect. The entire basis of the core Sharingan ability is the enhanced ability to discern pretty much anything.

That is to say, that Sharingan makes eyes work to their fullest (which is why a regular sharingan tires Kakashi out). With an Uchiha body, the Sharingan is to be less draining (probly meaning that they suffer no natural drawback to the strain on using their eyes to such an extent).

However, Mangekyou Sharingan is not like the normal Sharingan, as it not only allows the new abilities, but as we saw from Itachi grabbing Sasuke's arm that had the Chidori in it, and when Sasuke was fighting Naruto, it notices even more, making the eyes surpass their limits. This strain while at the start would be an effective advantage in the battle, in the end, one is left so strained and exausted from the ordeal that the biggest strength is initself the largest weakness.

We might surmize that because of continual pushing the limits of their eyes that they can degrade how well their eyes will work, and concurrently how well the MS will work from then on in the future.

Itachi grabbing Sasuke's arm had no part of MS in it; it was just his superior reflexes and motions compared to Sasuke's underdeveloped Sharingan and not being quick enough. MS so far only has shown to add new abilities in Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu
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Old 2006-11-10, 04:09   Link #6
Mr. Johnny 5
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I somehow dont even think Mangekyou Sharingan posses the ability to predict movements... i think it's only a step next to the doujutsu (Tsukyomi, Ameterasu and possibly more others or variations)
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Old 2006-11-10, 07:56   Link #7
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they didnt have optomotrist n narutoverse
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Old 2006-11-10, 08:41   Link #8
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
I somehow dont even think Mangekyou Sharingan posses the ability to predict movements... i think it's only a step next to the doujutsu (Tsukyomi, Ameterasu and possibly more others or variations)
?

So you've got 3 tomoe, upgrade to MS and suddenly you lose all previous abilities?

Uhh I don't think so. MS is the entrance to a new world of possibilities. A new world of powers and potential jutsu to be developed. I wouldn't just say MS enhances the regular traits of Sharingan any further, but it would be illogical to have them all disappear suddenly. It adds up. 1 tomoe, 2 tomoe, 3 tomoe, MS. MS once activated, posesses all traits of the previous stages and just adds up with a new kind of power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollerpants
Itachi grabbing Sasuke's arm had no part of MS in it; it was just his superior reflexes and motions compared to Sasuke's underdeveloped Sharingan and not being quick enough.
Certainly.

It's just a complete difference in league. Itachi's mastering over Sharingan plus insane speed versus Sasuke's low speed Chidori, what the hell? It's like stepping on a bug.
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Old 2006-11-10, 09:08   Link #9
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Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
It's just a complete difference in league. Itachi's mastering over Sharingan plus insane speed versus Sasuke's low speed Chidori, what the hell? It's like stepping on a bug.
At least bugs leave stains on your shoe. Itachi strolled out spotless.
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Old 2006-11-10, 12:48   Link #10
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
?

So you've got 3 tomoe, upgrade to MS and suddenly you lose all previous abilities?

Uhh I don't think so. MS is the entrance to a new world of possibilities. A new world of powers and potential jutsu to be developed. I wouldn't just say MS enhances the regular traits of Sharingan any further, but it would be illogical to have them all disappear suddenly. It adds up. 1 tomoe, 2 tomoe, 3 tomoe, MS. MS once activated, posesses all traits of the previous stages and just adds up with a new kind of power.



Certainly.

It's just a complete difference in league. Itachi's mastering over Sharingan plus insane speed versus Sasuke's low speed Chidori, what the hell? It's like stepping on a bug.
Sharingan is the tool to predict copy etc. MS is in my eyes basically handseals for a next generation of (dou-)jutsu's...like you mentioned.
I doubt it also posses the same abilities. Besides it's common in anime series that after upgrading something you'll lose another ability. It's only logical usually defense gets weaker after you focus more on the attacking power.

Gaara's transformation is an example..(temporary)
He's attacking power went up however it seemed that he lost his auto-defense for it.

Sharingan (once it's on) is permanent...
Mangekyou Sharingan is something that's used VERY temporary (not more then 60 seconds i think...)
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Old 2006-11-10, 18:12   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Sharingan is the tool to predict copy etc. MS is in my eyes basically handseals for a next generation of (dou-)jutsu's...like you mentioned.
I doubt it also posses the same abilities. Besides it's common in anime series that after upgrading something you'll lose another ability. It's only logical usually defense gets weaker after you focus more on the attacking power.

Gaara's transformation is an example..(temporary)
He's attacking power went up however it seemed that he lost his auto-defense for it.

Sharingan (once it's on) is permanent...
Mangekyou Sharingan is something that's used VERY temporary (not more then 60 seconds i think...)
Nice point, but I have to go wiht Xrayz0r on this one, I dont think that a higher level of Sharingan means the lost of the normal Sharingan powers, in exchange for a cuple Jutsu.

But, It could be as You said and it can even be used as a weak point to be used fro future plots.
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Old 2006-11-10, 19:05   Link #12
Mr. Johnny 5
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Well i dont really mind....it's just a reasonable thought and time will tell whether my theory is true or false.

In bleach for example there was a character who said: "This abandons defense and gives its all to killing the enemy" - Kuchiki Byakuya

His battle with the main character was just like Lee - Gaara (i'll bet most of you guy's have seen it or the battle)

And MS would probably be no exception to that ...
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Old 2006-11-10, 20:58   Link #13
icemaster143
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We have only seen the MS used sparingly by Itachi so its hard to say for sure. I am willing to agree that the MS might lose some abilities while in use like when focused on using a jutsu but for the most part it most likely retains its standard traits.

As fo the eye sight degrading with use I have a theory about that. Remmember the speach about the inner Chakra system durring the chunnin exam. That the chakra system was so wraped around organs that to damage one was to damage the other. Using MS most likely might force to much Chakra to the eye's causing tissue and/or nerve damage to some degree.
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Old 2006-11-11, 13:58   Link #14
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Because of his mastery over the technique and his Uchiha blood, he can probably keep it active with minimal strain on his body but the long term effects of that habit may be wearing on his eyesight.
I don't think that normal sharingan wears on your eyesight cuz when Kakashi droped the info bomb Itachi was surprised and tried to kill him imediatly. In that light it prolly wasn't something he could figure out by just using sharingan himself, by watching sasuke use the sharingan, or knowing people from the uchiha clan. Therefore Kakashi prolly figured it out by using MS himself and seeing the effects (multipled cuz he isn't uchiha).

Not to mention all the crazy stuff their eye does when they use it. Their pupil expands and spins and crap. Thats gotta be damaging to your eye anyway you look at it.
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Old 2006-12-12, 15:27   Link #15
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Originally Posted by Ryukage View Post
So the Mangekyou Sharingan deteriates eyesight? So that means that when the users eyes are normal it's terrible vision? Does this also mean that when in MS state the eyesight is bad to?
Using m sharingan gives you worse eyesight (when sharingan is not activated) as you use it. This explains why Itachi uses noramal sharingan all of the time. Because, normal sharingan has freakin awesome eyesight.
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Old 2006-12-12, 16:28   Link #16
Suna no tate
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Nice point, but I have to go wiht Xrayz0r on this one, I dont think that a higher level of Sharingan means the lost of the normal Sharingan powers, in exchange for a cuple Jutsu.

But, It could be as You said and it can even be used as a weak point to be used fro future plots.

Hmm... I'm not entirely sure about that one. It can go either way. Gaara transformed into a mini shukaku and lost the shield of sand protection. Kiba in a fused form with akamaru, loses jutsus and other powers. Naruto seemingly loses kagebunshin while in a kyubi state as well as other things. All were indeed rational in transformed states (ie gaara's mini kyubi and naruto's 1 tailed) meaning there is no good reason why they should have lost their certain powers. I understand that its a little different for itachi, but nonetheless I wouldn't rule it out. It'd explain why he doesn't just walk around with the MS ready to go all the time. I doubt that converting to the MS and keeping it active uses that much more energy than the normal sharingan. A loss of ability would explain perfectly why he'd use it limited time spans.
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Old 2006-12-12, 17:40   Link #17
Bijuu Killer
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Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
So you've got 3 tomoe, upgrade to MS and suddenly you lose all previous abilities?
If you get to a higher level, what's the point of using the previous eye at the same time? MS is only used for a few seonds, and it completely change the appearance of Sharingan eye. There's no need to have the normal Sharingan ability during a time you obliterate your enemy with a different and stronger eye jutsu. Also, you said correctly about MS as the entrance to a new world, this contradict your theory how it would remain the same.
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Old 2006-12-13, 04:54   Link #18
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Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
Hmm... I'm not entirely sure about that one. It can go either way. Gaara transformed into a mini shukaku and lost the shield of sand protection. Kiba in a fused form with akamaru, loses jutsus and other powers. Naruto seemingly loses kagebunshin while in a kyubi state as well as other things. All were indeed rational in transformed states (ie gaara's mini kyubi and naruto's 1 tailed) meaning there is no good reason why they should have lost their certain powers. I understand that its a little different for itachi, but nonetheless I wouldn't rule it out. It'd explain why he doesn't just walk around with the MS ready to go all the time. I doubt that converting to the MS and keeping it active uses that much more energy than the normal sharingan. A loss of ability would explain perfectly why he'd use it limited time spans.
Gaara didn't lose anything, he used it differently, in this case increase the Sand Armor and give it the form of Shukaku. What other power did Kiba lose exactly?
Naruto doesn't lose the ability to use anything, heck his KB can get in Kyubi's state, he just doesn't think straight.
Even Mr. Johnny 5's example about Kuchiki Byakuya is completely wrong since it's still exactly the same ability somply used in a different fashion.
The MS isn't to be used for a long time because it strains the eyes and uses a shitload of chakra.
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Old 2006-12-13, 10:52   Link #19
Suna no tate
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Gaara lost his automatic sand defense (his shield of sand) when he transformed to shukaku. Yes, in shukaku form he had more sand armor packed on his body or whatever it was, but the fact is the automatic sand defense that lee and sasuke faced against him was no longer active in a shukaku form.

Kiba when merged with akamaru can't do all the things he normally does or what akamaru normally does. They lose abilities but gain abilities. For example, kiba can't do taijutsu when merged. He just cant. He's in giant 2 headed wolf...
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Old 2006-12-13, 11:26   Link #20
Hunter
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No Gaara doesn't lose anything. He still has exactly the same sand which could react exactly the same way if he wasn't using it for something else already.
That's the 2nd times you repeat "other powers" without precision for Kiba.
What Kiba does normally is exactly what he does when he merges with Akamaru : taijutsu attack spinning like crazy toward the ennemy.
Except in this case faster and more powerful.

All the examples until now are merely the same abilities used in different fashion. I'm yet to see a whole set of abilities suddenly dissapearing when they gets to a more advanced form.
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