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Old 2012-07-23, 22:41   Link #201
Sugetsu
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Too bad the National Riffle Association won't allow anyone in government to even consider any kind of gun regulations as a result of this tragedy. It is nothing new, nothing can get in the way of the massive profits from the second most profitable business in the world, the first one being oil.

Meanwhile republican talking heads and politicians on both sides are doing their best not to blame the ridiculous laws that allow people to buy blatantly dangerous weapons that have nothing to do with self defense or hunting purposes. :

PS. And of course, the NRA and the rest of the US gun industry has absolutely no financial involvement with the violence going down in Mexico...
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:46   Link #202
Liddo-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I don't particularly have compassion for him nor do I pity him. The facts are that many, many people go through the challenges that he and other killers do, yet they don't kill. Many people seek help before they allow themselves to go this far. Did he?
Same. At any point I won't have any pity on someone like him. It's a really tragic day for the victims. If I imagine myself being with friends or family, in that theater, then we get shot at by this stranger whom we haven't wronged in any way.. it's horrifying.

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I'm curious about why he did what he did, simply because I can't imagine what could cause someone like him to take multiple lives. I don't expect his reasons to sound particularly good, but at least it might lead to a slightly greater understanding. And with that understanding, perhaps we can be more aware of what to look for and how to prevent others from reaching the point that he did.
He has no social life, and morally bankrupt as well - those are just my speculation of course. Not easy to find out what goes on in minds of killers.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:49   Link #203
Vexx
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I'll just point out that Holmes used a standard shotgun and a standard pistol for virtually all the damage and death. He also had time to reload several times during the panic. The "blatantly dangerous" ugly gun jammed almost immediately (only one bullet recovered). As we've also seen from his apartment, he could done as much or more damage with explosives ( a few enhanced molotovs).

I will agree the NRA's objectives are pretty much to scare-monger gun owners by the nose to vote against their best interests. Their magazine and literature reads like crazed bizarro tin-foil hat shrieks.

Holmes is an example of how hard the problem is... thousands, maybe millions of young people just like Holmes who do well in school, play video games, watch anime, listen to music, own guns legally, relative loners ... do NOT commit horrible crimes. Many of them would be racing to the front to rescue people.

What makes someone like Holmes bubble up? What is being missed? He apparently had been spiraling into this for months based on the amount of planning, yet no one near one seemed to notice anything amiss.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:51   Link #204
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Same. At any point I won't have any pity on someone like him. It's a really tragic day for the victims. If I imagine myself being with friends or family, in that theater, then we get shot at by this stranger whom we haven't wronged in any way.. it's horrifying.

When I said I have some pity for him, I just mean; what a sad, sorry mess he is. It was something that I felt a little bit earlier today for a short moment when seeing a pic of him in the courtroom and he looked like a real mess. Like I said in another post, everything is completely downhill from here for him. Don't get me wrong, what he did is unjustifiable, and the death penalty for him would be justice served.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:02   Link #205
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Curious: anyone know when he took that picture that was circulating when the news broke?
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:03   Link #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Meanwhile republican talking heads and politicians on both sides are doing their best not to blame the ridiculous laws that allow people to buy blatantly dangerous weapons that have nothing to do with self defense or hunting purposes. :

PS. And of course, the NRA and the rest of the US gun industry has absolutely no financial involvement with the violence going down in Mexico...
blatantly dangerous weapon? sorry to bust your bubble, but Holmes did not have any "assault" weapon, just a regular pistol, shotgun, and a semi-auto rifle (which btw, actually means it's not an automatic weapon). The only thing he had that was blatantly dangerous was the explosives he cooked up himself in his apartment.

considering the vast majority of the guns the cartels use came from places other than the US... I'd say so, yea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I will agree the NRA's objectives are pretty much to scare-monger gun owners by the nose to vote against their best interests. Their magazine and literature reads like crazed bizarro tin-foil hat shrieks.
Yup, but that's the nature of all lobbyist organizations, the Brady Campaign puts out just as much mis-information and tinfoil hattery as the NRA.

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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
When I said I have some pity for him, I just mean; what a sad, sorry mess he is. It was something that I felt a little bit earlier today for a short moment when seeing a pic of him in the courtroom and he looked like a real mess. Like I said in another post, everything is completely downhill from here for him. Don't get me wrong, what he did is unjustifiable, and the death penalty for him would be justice served.
Can't say I feel any pity for him, I do feel pity for the families that have suffered losses though, especially when you think about how long it'll take for him to get the needle even if he gets the death penalty.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:13   Link #207
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Can't say I feel any pity for him, I do feel pity for the families that have suffered losses though, especially when you think about how long it'll take for him to get the needle even if he gets the death penalty.
I feel really bad for the victims and loved ones of the victims. Some are dead, some have permanent injuries, many people are emotionally traumatized, the loved ones of victims are in distress, that community is feeling bad. And if all of this wasn't bad enough, those losers from the Westboro Baptist Church wanted to picket a memorial service. I wish those jerks weren't around. Does anyone know if they did do that picket at the memorial service?
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:34   Link #208
Vexx
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Yup, but that's the nature of all lobbyist organizations, the Brady Campaign puts out just as much mis-information and tinfoil hattery as the NRA.
Actually - I'd say they are objectively worse. Any organization that calls a 25 year old a "child" to pump up statistics deserves no respect. They're as bad as any of the "think of the children" irrational lunatic witchburners.

But I was a long time member of the NRA til the mid-90s when they spiraled into Dimension "not making sense any more".
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:39   Link #209
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Too bad the National Riffle Association won't allow anyone in government to even consider any kind of gun regulations as a result of this tragedy. It is nothing new, nothing can get in the way of the massive profits from the second most profitable business in the world, the first one being oil.
No, that's actually the correct response to this.
Why should law abiding citizens be punished for the actions of criminals?

And the bulk of the money that gun manufacturers make come from government contracts Sugetsu, not civilian sales.
You should know that, so if you want to stop those lofty profits you need to ban the government from buying guns...good luck with that.

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Meanwhile republican talking heads and politicians on both sides are doing their best not to blame the ridiculous laws that allow people to buy blatantly dangerous weapons that have nothing to do with self defense or hunting purposes. :
Oh you mean like the 30+ homemade bombs James Holmes had in his boobytrapped apartment, or maybe the tear gas grenades that are totally illegal.

If Holmes didn't have any guns he could have just used the bombs he made like Andrew Kehoe did in the Bath School Massacre in 1927 or Timmothy McVeigh did in Oaklahoma city.

Would you prefer that, or an AR-15 that jams after a few shots?
Hmmm?

Quote:
PS. And of course, the NRA and the rest of the US gun industry has absolutely no financial involvement with the violence going down in Mexico...
Oh you mean OBushma's Gunwalker/Fast & Furious fiasco. Yes, the United States government (BATFE) really ought to stop selling guns to Mexican drug dealers.

The fact of this tragedy is that we live in a violent world, and nothing can predict these kinds of horrific acts.
We've tried the gun/high-cap mag bans from 1994-2004 and yet Columbine, the DC Sniper, the North Hollywood Bank Robbery, and many other shootings still took place, with a variety of weapons on the ban list.
That taught us that gun control does not work, never has, never will.
If gun control were the answer, Chicago would be a safe city rather than a war zone.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:40   Link #210
Yui Is My Wife
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
those losers from the Westboro Baptist Church wanted to picket a memorial service. I wish those jerks weren't around. Does anyone know if they did do that picket at the memorial service?
They wave signs at funerals of soldiers and homosexuals, screaming "God Hates Fags", even if none of the deceased are actually gay. Apparently, their definition of "fag" includes Anime fans, fans of SCI-FI and fantasy, role players, abortion/women's/civil rights activists, Asians and African Americans.

And apparently they planned to picket Heath Ledger's funeral, with his little girl watching, and shout vile crap like "it was his punishment for playing a homosexual cowboy." thankfully this did NOT come to pass.

Makes you wish a Jason with a chainsaw bursts into their congregation of evil and sends everyone EXCEPT for the children to meet their spiteful mis-representation of The Gentleman Upstairs, dosen't it?
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:42   Link #211
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Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
They wave signs at funerals of soldiers and homosexuals, screaming "God Hates Fags", even if none of the deceased are actually gay. Apparently, their definition of "fag" includes Anime fans, fans of SCI-FI and fantasy, role players, abortion/women's/civil rights activists, Asians and African Americans.
Wow, I guess that makes me a flamming faggot in their eyes.
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Old 2012-07-24, 01:09   Link #212
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The "blatantly dangerous" ugly gun jammed almost immediately (only one bullet recovered).
Given what I've heard about those 100 round mags, my immediate though on learning that was that the jam had more to do with the magazine than the gun.

In light of which, even though high capacity magazines are one of the few "non-Canadian" gun control issues I have a strong feelings about, I still appreciate the irony here. Because for a moment, it transforms the guy from a larger than life monster into some douchebag who fucked up. And given that these sorts of "blaze of murdering glory spree antics" always reek of narcissism to me, I like to imagine that it would gall him if he knew I thought that.

Other than that, my condolences to the victims. I dearly love petty belittlement of assholes as it's kind of cathartic, but I shouldn't distract from the tragedy either.
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:05   Link #213
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
They wave signs at funerals of soldiers and homosexuals, screaming "God Hates Fags", even if none of the deceased are actually gay. Apparently, their definition of "fag" includes Anime fans, fans of SCI-FI and fantasy, role players, abortion/women's/civil rights activists, Asians and African Americans.

And apparently they planned to picket Heath Ledger's funeral, with his little girl watching, and shout vile crap like "it was his punishment for playing a homosexual cowboy." thankfully this did NOT come to pass.

Makes you wish a Jason with a chainsaw bursts into their congregation of evil and sends everyone EXCEPT for the children to meet their spiteful mis-representation of The Gentleman Upstairs, dosen't it?
Wait, they are racist against Asians and African Americans, too?

Whatever, those people are so bad, and definitely not Christians. They can call themselves Christians but they are not Christians. It'd be like me going around to people saying "Hey, I'm a banana!". But no matter how many times I insist I'm a banana, I'll never be one. This is what it is like when the westboro people claim they are Christians. I believe in karma. Phelps and most of his followers will get what is coming to them for their bad karma.
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:14   Link #214
Yui Is My Wife
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They can call themselves Christians but they are not Christians. It'd be like me going around to people saying "Hey, I'm a banana!"
The saddest thing? A thickly built young man who took THREE bullets from the guns of that fucking beast actually said with sad yet genuine compassion that he forgave it for what it did to him.

Now THAT is a real Christian.

You have my respect, young man. If I were in your shoes, I would have been planning my revenge the second I can walk again. You are a truly loving human being.
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:18   Link #215
Liddo-kun
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When I said I have some pity for him, I just mean; what a sad, sorry mess he is. It was something that I felt a little bit earlier today for a short moment when seeing a pic of him in the courtroom and he looked like a real mess. Like I said in another post, everything is completely downhill from here for him. Don't get me wrong, what he did is unjustifiable, and the death penalty for him would be justice served.
@Ursu 7

Yes, I know what you mean when you said you have some pity on the shooter. I didn't disagree with what you said. That's why I didn't quote you when I replied to Ledgem.

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Wait, they are racist against Asians and African Americans, too?
I'm asian and not familiar with Westboro.
Why do they hate asians and anime?
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:20   Link #216
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
The saddest thing? A thickly built young man who took THREE bullets from the guns of that fucking beast actually said with sad yet genuine compassion that he forgave it for what it did to him.

Now THAT is a real Christian.

You have my respect, young man. If I were in your shoes, I would have been planning my revenge the second I can walk again. You are a truly loving human being.
Yeah, he possesses qualities which I wish more people would have.

So you are telling me the Westboro people are racist against all non-whites? If so, that'd make me feel better, strangely. I just mean, they are so bad and so terrible, and if that was true, that'd only make them all the more invalid in regards to, well, anything. Is it true they are racists that hate non-whites?
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:24   Link #217
Yui Is My Wife
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Basically, anything that does not fit in the squeaky-clean, white-picket-fences and sunday-school barbeque 1950's idea of White Christian America that you see in black and white sicoms like Leave It To Beaver.

Scary thing about this fucking "church" was the fact that it was FOUND in the 1950's, and the founder, "Pastor" Fred Phelps is STILL alive too.
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:27   Link #218
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
@Ursu 7
I'm asian and not familiar with Westboro.
Why do they hate asians and anime?

Wait, they are racist against Asians and African Americans, too?
They are the worst people I've ever seen call themselves Christians. Don't go to their website, you'll just get angry and frustrated. They are probably the most anti-gay people in the world. They think this Colorado massacre happened because some states allow "fag marriage" (their term). Their plan was to go to a memorial service for the Colorado shooting and hold protest signs and scream hateful messages. Some of the signs would read "God hates fags". That is their slogan, basically. They've been known to go to funerals of gay people who died from hate crimes and hold up negative signs and scream hateful messages at those funerals. Apparently, they hate a lot more than just gay people. But they do all these awful things, causing distress and emotional pain for so many, and they think they are good Christians doing God's work (YEAH RIGHT).

Yui Is My Wife, do you know if they held that memorial service and do you know if those immoral bigots made it to the memorial?
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:34   Link #219
Yui Is My Wife
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So it was quoted in tvtropes (before they got all conservative and right winged to avoid offending the coservative), "The Ku Klux Klan does not acknowledge ANY connections to the Westbro Baptist Church."

Wow, Even Evil Has Standards indeed!! Takes a special kind of monstrousness to disgust monsters like the Klan!!

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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Yui Is My Wife, do you know if they held that memorial service and do you know if those immoral bigots made it to the memorial?
Dear gentleman.

I fear I have not checked, as today was the first I have heard of either the Service or the planned attack of the Westbro "Church" (read "cult") on it.

I fear I cannot attend for due to Visa reasons I am currently confined in Taiwan, but regardless my heart will be with them.
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-07-24 at 11:45. Reason: Please edit your post and refrain from double posting...
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:37   Link #220
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
So it was quoted in tvtropes (before they got all conservative and right winged to avoid offending the coservative), "The Ku Klux Klan does not acknowledge ANY connections to the Westbro Baptist Church."

Wow, Even Evil Has Standards indeed!! Takes a special kind of monstrousness to disgust monsters like the Klan!!
I heard once that their 'church' has around 3,000 members, than someone else told me it only has like 50 or less members. Do you know which is the correct amount?

Edit: We should let the thread get back on topic, too. Before mods use the cattle prod to get the thread back on track.
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