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Old 2012-07-21, 02:42   Link #81
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
nothing about how he managed to get in through the emergency exit?
He went to the theater for the movie early (bought a ticket), then went out the emergency exit and propped it open. Went to his car, suited up and loaded up, and then went back into the theater.
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Old 2012-07-21, 02:55   Link #82
GundamFan0083
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
America has had a problem with violence for a long time. Just speaking of the modern era, we've had problems with violence all through the modern era. But the shooting sprees have gotten worse. It seems like they got worse after Columbine. After Columbine, more school shootings occurred. I don't think there were any gun related massacres at schools before Columbine. Before than, maybe there was some gun related violence in schools, but not shooting sprees.
Sadly no, Columbine was just one of many previous shooting sprees at a school.
The most famous/infamous before that was Charles Whitman.

In fact, the first school massacre in America happened on July 26th 1764.
It was known as the Pontiac's Rebellion School Massacre.
"They killed Enoch Brown, the schoolmaster, and ten children. One child who had been scalped survived."

Here is a full list of school massacres in America/the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

We're just a really violent culture and have been since before the US even existed.
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Old 2012-07-21, 03:01   Link #83
Mr. DJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
He went to the theater for the movie early (bought a ticket), then went out the emergency exit and propped it open. Went to his car, suited up and loaded up, and then went back into the theater.
wow =\

see, didn't think it was going to be that simple. Thought those exits would have a alarm attached to it...
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Old 2012-07-21, 03:10   Link #84
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Sadly no, Columbine was just one of many previous shooting sprees at a school.
The most famous/infamous before that was Charles Whitman.

In fact, the first school massacre in America happened on July 26th 1764.
It was known as the Pontiac's Rebellion School Massacre.
"They killed Enoch Brown, the schoolmaster, and ten children. One child who had been scalped survived."

Here is a full list of school massacres in America/the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

We're just a really violent culture and have been since before the US even existed.
There was hardly any massacres at schools from students at the schools before Columbine. The only other massacres of that type I saw on that wikipedia page was one or two.
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Old 2012-07-21, 03:15   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
There was hardly any massacres at schools from students at the schools before Columbine. The only other massacres of that type I saw on that wikipedia page was one or two.
What?
Urzu go back and read everything from 1966 onwards.
Charles Whitman was a student at the University of Texas at the time he shot and killed 16 people and wounded 22 others on August 1st 1966.

After that it was like someone opened up a floodgate.
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Old 2012-07-21, 03:29   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I wish I had a point to make but honestly, there isn't one. The reason why these massacres happen is cultural, and unfortunately we've mastered the art of procrastination about why we allow these things to happen. We'd rather blame others to rationalize the lies we feed ourselves, and we'll continue to pay the price for that.
Saddly, weapon selling is a very lucrative bussines at the USA. It is stuppidly easy for almost anyone to get the kind of weapons the guy had at USA.
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Old 2012-07-21, 03:44   Link #87
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
What?
Urzu go back and read everything from 1966 onwards.
Charles Whitman was a student at the University of Texas at the time he shot and killed 16 people and wounded 22 others on August 1st 1966.

After that it was like someone opened up a floodgate.
Geez. I missed a lot. I didn't go back and check that wikipedia page, but I looked at the listing quite a bit. I didn't read all of the things written, but I was somewhat thorough, and I didn't see many massacres from students. I guess I missed several.

I had thought the floodgates opened with Columbine.

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Originally Posted by Evil Rick View Post
Saddly, weapon selling is a very lucrative bussines at the USA. It is stuppidly easy for almost anyone to get the kind of weapons the guy had at USA.
From the black market? Or legal sales? I'd like to know about the assualt rifle. Don't tell me a bunch of states will sell assualt rifles to most people.

Also, look at this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1691191.html

He bought 6,000 rounds of ammunition online.

Edit: That article says he got all the guns and ammunition legally. So that answers my question.

So in America, it is easier to get guns and ammunition than affordable healthcare? Wonderful.
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Old 2012-07-21, 04:00   Link #88
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Thing is...he didn't have an assault rifle. Those are illegal and have been since the 1930s (along with other machine guns).

This was a rifle that looks like an assault rifle. Otherwise it is perfectly legal to own in most states (some have wackier laws than others).

Add to this that most of the dead and wounded were from the shotgun. Also a perfectly legal weapon.
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Old 2012-07-21, 04:07   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Thing is...he didn't have an assault rifle. Those are illegal and have been since the 1930s (along with other machine guns).

This was a rifle that looks like an assault rifle. Otherwise it is perfectly legal to own in most states (some have wackier laws than others).

Add to this that most of the dead and wounded were from the shotgun. Also a perfectly legal weapon.
Yup, the media's definition of an "assault rifle" is laughable, as semi-autos by definition cannot be assault rifles. But hey, since it looks scary, it must be one!

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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Don't tell me a bunch of states will sell assualt rifles to most people.
Only if you have a class 3 license, and then that's only for old vintage auto rifles that were built before 1986, and those are not cheap, as they're collector items at this point - vintage M16s can go for $15-30k, M60s can get as high as $50k

the AR or AK rifles you see in gun shops are as much of an "assault rifle" as a kitchen knife is an "assault knife", or that water bottle is an "assault water bottle"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
He bought 6,000 rounds of ammunition online.
I have a few thousand FMJ rounds that I use for target shooting myself, doesn't mean I'm gonna go nuts and go on a shooting spree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
So in America, it is easier to get guns and ammunition than affordable healthcare? Wonderful.
/shrug, ultimately guns and ammo are just metals, and is cheap to make. While hospital care is expensive, it's something you'd have to thank the insurance companies for.

Last edited by kyp275; 2012-07-21 at 04:27.
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Old 2012-07-21, 05:01   Link #90
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
/shrug, ultimately guns and ammo are just metals, and is cheap to make. While hospital care is expensive, it's something you'd have to thank the insurance companies for.
Medical care can be more affordable than it is now. What is holding that back is companies that'd rather not do what is better for the American people for the sake of their bottom line. They could make medical care more affordable for people, but it'd mean less money for them, and they just won't have that. One example is medications. I have a medication I get. A three month supply without insurance is $575. They are selling that at a high profit margin. Probably a very high profit margin. It doesn't need to be that high. Medications, without insurance, go into the price range of over a hundred dollars to hundreds of dollars and they are just simply overpriced. Not having medical insurance is pretty much not an option for most people. Dental care isn't affordable, either. I once went to a dentist and had my teeth cleaned, and then they did an x-ray of my teeth, and then they did some other procedure because I had a problem discovered from the x-ray, and it cost me over $300. I had an oral surgery last year and it cost over $800 just to have a wisdom tooth removed.

Edit: If you wanna respond to that, just send a PM. I don't wanna bring this thread off-topic.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2012-07-21 at 05:12.
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Old 2012-07-21, 05:14   Link #91
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Such is the downside of capitalism. Companies don't exist to do what's good for the people, they exist for their bottom line.
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Old 2012-07-21, 05:22   Link #92
Urzu 7
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Such is the downside of capitalism. Companies don't exist to do what's good for the people, they exist for their bottom line.
Greed is one of the worst problems with America. Perhaps it is even the worst problem with it, because it isn't just bad for Americans, it leads our corporations and government to exploit many other nations.
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Old 2012-07-21, 06:54   Link #93
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so what is the current situation. did they catch the shooter?
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Old 2012-07-21, 07:17   Link #94
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so what is the current situation. did they catch the shooter?
Heard from MSNBC that he surrendered without committing suicide.
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Old 2012-07-21, 09:04   Link #95
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
From what I gather from the article he was really smart, maybe even genius level.
Dude gets good grades and drops out of a PhD program, and he's "genius level"?

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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
On the one hand we kill many of our own people senselessly, on the other hand it makes us the most vicious fighters on the planet.
Guess it's a double-edged sword.
Who's "us"? Our population is having issues with obesity; I don't think "we" can be vicious fighters. Entertained by violence, maybe, but not "vicious fighters."

I've heard two different theories behind why events like this happen in America, and I think there's some truth to both of them. The first (and most popular) theory deals with the relatively easy access to guns. The second theory deals with American paranoia and lack of compassion. People don't reach out to each other anymore, the sense of community is lost. This results in people becoming increasingly isolated, which is damaging to mental health (and we already have other factors going on that make mental health an issue in this country). Medications can provide a patch for many people, but they're only effective as long as they're being prescribed properly and taken. It used to be that people would look out for one another, but now people are terrified of anyone and everyone they don't know. If a person behaves even a little strangely (which may indicate that they really need help), people flee even faster.

I'd be interested in knowing what his motive for such an action was, but I'd also be interested to know why he was withdrawing from his course of studies. I suspect that the two might be related.
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Old 2012-07-21, 10:49   Link #96
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
What?
Urzu go back and read everything from 1966 onwards.
Charles Whitman was a student at the University of Texas at the time he shot and killed 16 people and wounded 22 others on August 1st 1966.

After that it was like someone opened up a floodgate.
I'm not sure if Whitman is a good example to use as far as these mass Shooters go. Whitman LITERALLY had a brain tumor that turned him from a perfectly rational and functional individual into an emotionally disturbed mass murderer. I'm not sure if we can really draw comparisons of him to allot of these contempoary mass shooters who tend to just be vanilla schizophrenics and sociopaths.

I mean, you just have to read the letter that Whitman wrote before he went on his shooting spree to realize he had a MUCH different problem than just rambling maniacs like Cho.

Quote:
I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts
........
I imagine it appears that I brutally killed both of my loved ones. I was only trying to do a quick thorough job...If my life insurance policy is valid please pay off my debts...donate the rest anonymously to a mental health foundation. Maybe research can prevent further tragedies of this type
.
Whitman was AWARE that he was behaving irrationally. I think this alone means you can't really draw too many comparisons between him and contempoary mass shooters.
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Old 2012-07-21, 11:08   Link #97
Yui Is My Wife
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
They don't do that. In America, we don't do 'cruel and unusual punishment'; that is the term that is used. Texas is the most extreme with executions in the U.S., but they ain't gonna put someone on the electric chair with no sponge. I'm not even sure if they still do the electric chair there. They might, or I think recently they switched to lethal injection only.
FUCK THAT!! It's a Baby Killer, NOT a human being!! IT should be put through the equivalent agony of ALL the victims that fell to its gun, NOT gently put down like a kind and gentle house pet!!. And only 3 to more agonizing, burning and smoking minutes on Old-Sparky can do that. Wouldn't be fair otherwise.
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Old 2012-07-21, 12:49   Link #98
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Sorry this damn post grew as I composed it. I know it's long.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
From the black market? Or legal sales? I'd like to know about the assualt rifle. Don't tell me a bunch of states will sell assualt rifles to most people.

Also, look at this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1691191.html
That article is why I have absolutely no respect for the so called main stream media anymore.
It is a complete propaganda piece.

AR-15s were never outlawed in this country only the bayonet lug, flashhider, and folding or telescoping butt-stocks were prohibited. Also, high-capacity magazines were prohibited for sale new, but not if they were police overstock or used police magazines. So Hurt Heine is a fucking liar and a statist-pig for misleading the public.

The Huffington Compost piece also fails to show the amount of money this guy's tiny collection of guns costs and pushes the assinine "assault weapon" moniker.

An AR-15 is a civilian militia weapon that IS protected by the constitution for a variety of reasons that I will not get into because it is long.
The military version is the M16.
Here are some of the major differences between them as they are NOT FUNCTIONIALLY the same.

The largest difference is in the bolt-carrier.
Here is a pic (it may not show up because it comes from a blog):
Spoiler for for size:


The bolt carrier on the right is the AR-15, the bolt-carrier on the left is an M16.
Notice how much metal is not present on the AR-15 bolt, that prevents the bolt from being used for full-auto fire. Also, the dimensions of the two bolts are different so that they are not interchangable (AR-15 bolt is loose in M16, M16 bolt is too tight).
The trigger group is different, the upper and lower receiver are different, and the barrel chambers are cut differently.
They are basically two outwardly similar but internally different weapons.
Thus, when the media gets a stiffy and starts spewing off the term "assault rifle" just drop the "assault" part and you have the truth.
He used a rifle.

Now onto what our mass-murdering wackjob in my state had for his unforgivable deed.

As for these weapons being "easily" accessable. They are not unless you have a lot of extra-money to shell out, and go through a background check.
Here's a break down of how much this guy's little stash of 6000 rounds of ammo costs.
And don't EVEN ASK me how much I have!

1) the 5.56/.223 hunting ammunition: You can buy .223 in 1000 round cases for $360.00/case. Obviously he had to have some serious cash to puchase more than a case or two of that. Not too mention you'll get a visit from DHS.

2) .40 Cal FMJ (the cheapest) is $270.00/case of 1000.

3) Cheapest 00 buck shotgun ammo is $180.00/case of 250 shells.

We don't know the actual break down of how much of each caliber he had, but I would imagine it was mostly pistol ammo so it probably breaks down in a 20-30-50 percentage: 50% pistol, 30% rifle, 20% shotgun, so 3000 pistol, 1800 rifle, 1200 shotgun.
Again, this is just my speculation on the breakdown based on cost and requirements for this horrible deed he planned.
Therefore, the cost for the ammo breaks down as follows: $810.00 for .40 cal, $648.00 for rifle, $864.00 for 00 buck shotgun shells, for a total of $2322.00 for the ammo as per my speculation, he actually could have spent much more.

Now on to the weapons.

Since he bought the weapons at GanderMountain, I will use their website for pricing.

1) The only AR-15 GanderMountain offers that I can see this nutjob buying is this one, because it is as "compact" as you can legally buy without a class II or higher FFL.
That is a cost of $1100.00 before taxes.

2) There are many Glock .40 caliber type weapons, but I'll assume he bought cheap and thus used. A pre-owned Glock 22 is $599.00 each. $1198.00 total.

3) For shotguns, the only "tactical" Remington GanderMountain offers is this one. So $379.00 for that weapon.

4) Clips. For AR-15s, one Beta 100-round magazine (which is what they said he had, though that might change) is $234.00 each. If he had any 30 round mags those are a minimum of $20.00/each. I can't see him having more than the 100 round Beta though due to sheer encumbrance alone. Glock 22 magazines are about $40.00/each. I assume he had at least 2 per gun (4) so that's another $160.00. Shotgun does not use clips.

Therefore, in guns and ammo he had to have spent around $5400.00.
Add in the tactical gear, gas mask, and body armor and helmet and you can add another $2000.00 easy.

How many college students have $5500-7500 dollars to blow in a 60 day period?
Not many.

Quote:
He bought 6,000 rounds of ammunition online.

Edit: That article says he got all the guns and ammunition legally. So that answers my question.

So in America, it is easier to get guns and ammunition than affordable healthcare? Wonderful.
Why does it matter whether it was online or at a gunshop or a gunshow?
Where and how he bought it is moot.
Just because he bought it, doesn't mean he had it on him.
Do you have any idea how heavy 6000 rounds of ammunition is?
I do, and he would have been crawling around, not walking.
One case of 1000 rounds of 5.56 NATO is 30 pounds.
He had at MOST, and I mean MOST, 1000 rounds total of all calibers.

And comparing his purchase to healthcare is a nonsequitor, the two don't relate at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Thing is...he didn't have an assault rifle. Those are illegal and have been since the 1930s (along with other machine guns).

This was a rifle that looks like an assault rifle. Otherwise it is perfectly legal to own in most states (some have wackier laws than others).

Add to this that most of the dead and wounded were from the shotgun. Also a perfectly legal weapon.
Ithekro for the win!
You are absolutely correct sir.
Victims on Channel 9 news that were interviewed in the hospital say that he continuously reloaded the shotgun during the attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I'd be interested in knowing what his motive for such an action was, but I'd also be interested to know why he was withdrawing from his course of studies. I suspect that the two might be related.
That makes two of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I'm not sure if Whitman is a good example to use as far as these mass Shooters go. Whitman LITERALLY had a brain tumor that turned him from a perfectly rational and functional individual into an emotionally disturbed mass murderer. I'm not sure if we can really draw comparisons of him to allot of these contempoary mass shooters who tend to just be vanilla schizophrenics and sociopaths.
Harris was on Luvox, a mind effecting antidepresant.
Whitman's thinking was also effected due to a tumor rather than a drug, but both instances had something causing the brain not to function as it should and thus the person reacted badly (killing spree).
Some doctors speculate that heightened levels of serotonin may be to blame, but currently there is no hard evidence to support that.
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Old 2012-07-21, 13:06   Link #99
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Harris was on Luvox, a mind effecting antidepresant.
Whitman's thinking was also effected due to a tumor rather than a drug, but both instances had something causing the brain not to function as it should and thus the person reacted badly (killing spree).
Some doctors speculate that heightened levels of serotonin may be to blame, but currently there is no hard evidence to support that.
Maybe it is a bit early, but how hard would it be nowadays to implement such a background check? "Hum, you are on mind affecting medication sir, sorry, I cannot sell you firearms or ammunition, come later when you are feeling better". With the right system it would takes seconds at the cashier, it might cost the goverment money, but they are alreay wasting millions in spying their own citizens. Who wants to run a bet that no such system will be implemented, even if the next nutjob makes a better plan and kills hundreds or thousands of people?
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Old 2012-07-21, 13:14   Link #100
kyp275
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Maybe it is a bit early, but how hard would it be nowadays to implement such a background check? "Hum, you are on mind affecting medication sir, sorry, I cannot sell you firearms or ammunition, come later when you are feeling better". With the right system it would takes seconds at the cashier, it might cost the goverment money, but they are alreay wasting millions in spying their own citizens. Who wants to run a bet that no such system will be implemented, even if the next nutjob makes a better plan and kills hundreds or thousands of people?
I don't know about Mexico, but in the US your personal medical records are actually considered private have it be available in "seconds" at every counter? you might as well go ahead and post all your personal information on facebook.
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