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Old 2013-05-08, 16:19   Link #221
GDB
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Oh yeah, so doesn't this also mean that Pepper is super powered now?
Depends on whether he cured her or stabilized her.
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Old 2013-05-09, 03:07   Link #222
Samari
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
He was likely planning on approaching Tony as a potential ally, offering him the resources of Extremis soldiers to hunt the Mandarin, on the condition of his help. Based on the hotel scene, I don't think Hansan had divulged her plan to get Tony yet at that point.
But didn't Killian approach Stark industries in the beginning of the film to try and get cooperation with Extremis? And that still wouldn't explain Hansan being okay with the prospect of most likely getting killed when missiles are bombing the house. If she's been working with Killian the entire time, why would she agree to that?
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Old 2013-05-09, 03:37   Link #223
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Samari View Post
But didn't Killian approach Stark industries in the beginning of the film to try and get cooperation with Extremis? And that still wouldn't explain Hansan being okay with the prospect of most likely getting killed when missiles are bombing the house. If she's been working with Killian the entire time, why would she agree to that?
He didn't know she was there, she didn't know the attack would be coming right then. Or she thought she'd have the time to extract Tony and Pepper, but they spent too much time arguing.
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Old 2013-05-09, 04:01   Link #224
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He didn't know she was there, she didn't know the attack would be coming right then. Or she thought she'd have the time to extract Tony and Pepper, but they spent too much time arguing.
She didn't know the attack would be incoming on Tony's house, despite being a partner of Killian? That doesn't make any sense. I don't really buy that. Especially later on when Killian shows up she doesn't appear to be ticked off at all at Killian that she almost lost her life trying to recruit Tony and Pepper.
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Old 2013-05-09, 05:30   Link #225
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Originally Posted by Samari View Post
She didn't know the attack would be incoming on Tony's house, despite being a partner of Killian? That doesn't make any sense. I don't really buy that. Especially later on when Killian shows up she doesn't appear to be ticked off at all at Killian that she almost lost her life trying to recruit Tony and Pepper.
The way I see it, she realised that Tony was about to get killed, and think it is a waste to lose him. So she went to extract him from the house. But they took too long arguing.
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Old 2013-05-09, 09:40   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The way I see it, she realised that Tony was about to get killed, and think it is a waste to lose him. So she went to extract him from the house. But they took too long arguing.
I think that is asking the audience to speculate way too much. If that was the case why didn't she contract Killian and say "Hold up, don't blow up the house we can use Tony to help fix Extremis." I'd be surprised if the response to that would be "Okay you have five minutes then I'm blowing up the house." Killian, who has put his heart and soul into Extremis, couldn't wait a little longer to know for sure if Tony was going to join them or not? Hansan could have just left the house and said "Tony isn't leaving" and then that could have been the go ahead to bomb the place. It's a plot hole to me.
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Old 2013-05-09, 09:47   Link #227
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^It's not so much a plot hole as the script/film trying to deliberately trick the audience (similar to how she and Killian both reference the 'Master' when they kidnap Pepper, even though neither have any reason to). There are quite a few purposeful misdirections and red herrings in the movie that, while extremely obvious in retrospect, were deliberate misleads meant to keep the plot moving without revealing the twists in the story. It wasn't good writing, but it was serviceable for the cause...
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Old 2013-05-09, 09:55   Link #228
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^It's not so much a plot hole as the script/film trying to deliberately trick the audience (similar to how she and Killian both reference the 'Master' when they kidnap Pepper, even though neither have any reason to). There are quite a few purposeful misdirections and red herrings in the movie that, while extremely obvious in retrospect, were deliberate misleads meant to keep the plot moving without revealing the twists in the story. It wasn't good writing, but it was serviceable for the cause...
I disagree. I think you could say that about a lot of plot holes in films. It just simply didn't make sense in the context of the story and the audience shouldn't have to do a good amount of guesswork for a major plot point in the movie that never provides even a hint of an answer as to why the events play out the way they do that contradict the direction of the said plot.
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Old 2013-05-09, 10:24   Link #229
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Originally Posted by Samari View Post
I disagree. I think you could say that about a lot of plot holes in films. It just simply didn't make sense in the context of the story and the audience shouldn't have to do a good amount of guesswork for a major plot point in the movie that never provides even a hint of an answer as to why the events play out the way they do that contradict the direction of the said plot.
Personally, I thought Hansen went to the house independent of Killiam in order to try and convince Tony to help work on the Extremis project, but because she went independently she did not know about the upcoming attack. There's no real legwork to get to that answer, and the future conversation between Killian and Hansen alludes to this exact possibility.

There are many plot holes in the film, I just didn't consider this particular instance a plot hole.

---

As an aside, I'm going to see the film again before I try and properly review it (there were good and bad qualities that I am still struggling with), but I will say that I think the film, and in some respects the series, is about defense mechanisms. Tony Stark is riddled with defense mechanisms: whether it be his sarcastic wit used to shield his pain and suffering (from his near death or even Pepper's near death) or the literal armor he wears (developed to originally protect himself against his captors and then later to protect himself against the world he helped create (as a gun manufacturer)). Even his "heart", which it turns out he doesn't actually need (which I wish the film could have provided some details on previous to the semi-obnoxious ending), is another form of protection against the world. There is much to dislike about the film, but I do think the good outweighs the bad.
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Old 2013-05-09, 10:25   Link #230
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I think the things that my fiance had the most trouble dealing with logically was:

1) Presumably patriotic and loyal soldiers of all stripes suddenly decided to turn on the government and try to assassinate the president?
2) Those same soldiers are perfectly okay going on a rampage killing civilians?
3) Why the hell is Killian so much more powerful than the other ones?
4) The logical explanation for the anxiety driven creation of all those suits was to be ready in case another invasion happened .. then the suits all got "blow'd up" ?

Still enjoyed the film a lot. RDJ is ridiculous as always and hey, the $700M worldwide box office means there'll be Iron Man 4, right?
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Old 2013-05-09, 10:32   Link #231
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
4) The logical explanation for the anxiety driven creation of all those suits was to be ready in case another invasion happened .. then the suits all got "blow'd up" ?
While I agree with your other points/questions, this one was something of a no-brainer for me. Emotionally, Tony didn't need these suits anymore. They served their purpose, the anxiety he created them for and with was alleviated, and he realized that having them was worsening his own condition (with himself and especially with Pepper). He gave up his "heart" for the same reason. He simply didn't need what the suits were designed for any longer (that's not to say he won't create a new suit or something to that effect, he simply didn't need these armors any longer).

Note the Iron Patriot suit was never destroyed. The IP still served a purpose, these recent Iron Men did not. They were more harm than good for him, so he simply destroyed them.
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Old 2013-05-09, 10:36   Link #232
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^ Fair enough, I know what hook the movie was using, my fiance just thought the suits exploding into fireworks was a tad cliche.

The other thing that was never mentioned was why can anyone just throw the IP suit on? It seems like every model other than the latest is impossible for people to just simply use, but anyone and everyone can be IP.
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Old 2013-05-09, 10:39   Link #233
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
1) Presumably patriotic and loyal soldiers of all stripes suddenly decided to turn on the government and try to assassinate the president?
They didn't cover it in the movie, but in the comics Extremis would make the user insane. Either slowly or quickly, it depended on the user, but they all showed differing levels of insanity compared to pre-Extremis.
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Old 2013-05-09, 12:28   Link #234
Samari
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Personally, I thought Hansen went to the house independent of Killiam in order to try and convince Tony to help work on the Extremis project, but because she went independently she did not know about the upcoming attack. There's no real legwork to get to that answer, and the future conversation between Killian and Hansen alludes to this exact possibility.

There are many plot holes in the film, I just didn't consider this particular instance a plot hole.
Interesting take. I guess I could see Hansan going there by herself, but nothing is really ever said about that as to why she would do that. Not even hinted at. And if that was the case it would just mean that Killian and Hansan weren't the same page as partners, which would seem weird and an unnecessary addition to the film other than a contrivance to have Hansan in the house at the time of the attack. Whatever, it is what it is I guess.
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Old 2013-05-09, 12:42   Link #235
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
I think the things that my fiance had the most trouble dealing with logically was:

1) Presumably patriotic and loyal soldiers of all stripes suddenly decided to turn on the government and try to assassinate the president?
2) Those same soldiers are perfectly okay going on a rampage killing civilians?
They're drug addicts. Extremis isn't without its side effects.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
While I agree with your other points/questions, this one was something of a no-brainer for me. Emotionally, Tony didn't need these suits anymore. They served their purpose, the anxiety he created them for and with was alleviated, and he realized that having them was worsening his own condition (with himself and especially with Pepper). He gave up his "heart" for the same reason. He simply didn't need what the suits were designed for any longer (that's not to say he won't create a new suit or something to that effect, he simply didn't need these armors any longer).

Note the Iron Patriot suit was never destroyed. The IP still served a purpose, these recent Iron Men did not. They were more harm than good for him, so he simply destroyed them.
The additional armors saved his life when it turned out one wasn't enough to deal with human handwarmers.
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Old 2013-05-09, 13:00   Link #236
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I think the things that my fiance had the most trouble dealing with logically was:

1) Presumably patriotic and loyal soldiers of all stripes suddenly decided to turn on the government and try to assassinate the president?
Your fiance haven't been watching the news lately. US Troops returning home maimed or disabled are being massively mistreated as their request for compensation could be several years overdue. And that's just for processing the REQUEST, not the payment. There are soldiers who died without ever seeing a cent of the government money owed to them for their service. In real life most people stay loyal to their country. But not everyone is that forgiving.
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Old 2013-05-10, 01:33   Link #237
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I'm indecisive if I should consider this or not.
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Old 2013-05-10, 01:43   Link #238
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I'm indecisive if I should consider this or not.
Well, the general consensus that I get after reading many reviews and comments from various websites is that: if you're okay with action with plot-holes, you like RDJ and his antics, and not a fan of Iron-man comics (and Mandarin in particular), you'll enjoy the movie. If you're the opposite of all those points, you better choose other movie.
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Old 2013-05-10, 09:24   Link #239
willx
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Well, the general consensus that I get after reading many reviews and comments from various websites is that: if you're okay with action with plot-holes, you like RDJ and his antics, and not a fan of Iron-man comics (and Mandarin in particular), you'll enjoy the movie. If you're the opposite of all those points, you better choose other movie.
Well, I'd say as long as you like RDJ's "Tony Stark" and like shiny things and things that go "Boom!" -- it'll still be a fun watch no matter what. The rest is icing or in the case you don't like it .. overseasoning..
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Old 2013-05-10, 09:49   Link #240
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The additional armors saved his life when it turned out one wasn't enough to deal with human handwarmers.
Spoiler for slight ending spoilers...:
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