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Old 2012-11-07, 11:11   Link #441
Micropod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Tl;dr answer, humiliated, though I'd figure the rest of the 65th Aggressors, particularly the Flankers, would nte that sooner or later the Raptor's undefeated streak had to end. Hell, at Red Flag IRL in 2007, there were instances of Raptors being shot down... One case was admittedly a 3-on-1 vs F-16s; Raptor tried to engage the F-16s with guns, and got killed by Viper 3 as it was killing Viper 1 and 2.

(There was also a canyon run made by F-16s to try and jump the F-22s, which failed; I suspect that's the same canyon where Goose bought it.)
Sounds fascinating. Off topic, I realize, but where would one go to find out more about that? Most I can find is something about one Raptor being lost because an aggressor randomly respawned but was still thought dead. And I couldn't find anything about the trench run either. Is this something that's not in any publicly available records and only passed around by word of mouth?
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Old 2012-11-07, 11:31   Link #442
Wild Goose
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I read about it in Combat Aircraft magazine; I think it was sometime around June 2007, but don't quote me on that (could have been a 2006 issue; my memory ain't what it used to be, lol).

IIRC it was the second Raptor deployment to Red Flag; the kill ratio wasn't as ridiculously high as the first Raptor squadron, but that was because these guys were hanging around until they were down to guns and still racking up kills.
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Old 2012-11-07, 11:38   Link #443
Alastor Mobius Toth
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On John117xCortana question:

I think Infinities would be humiliated and pissed, but in the determined "Get this mother****" way. Leon sounds like a kind of person who can be goaded into doing something stupid (hell, it's what I did in Comet), but Sharon, Guylos and the 4th random member seems professional enough to see through that and kill you in the most embarrassing way possible.
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Old 2012-11-07, 12:24   Link #444
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Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
1. Reinforced structural frame so that it can better handle higher speeds and sudden accelerations and decelerations. Can handle more punishment from melee blows.

2. Upgraded joints and motors. Substantially increase reactions times and speeds. And increased durability.
This is essentially what Boening did with the ACTV, so I don't see any mJor issues with this. however, I'm personally wary pf maling statements such as "substantial" when it's difficult to quantify.

Quote:
3. New miniaturized active and passive electronic scanning radar as well as infrared target acquisition system. New OS has the option of turning the limiters off to allow the pilot freedom of movement and increased reaction times. But this would make the TSF harder to control since it becomes more sensitive. And the pilot will experience extreme G-forces
.

There's a certain hard limit you reach before you can't miniaturise anymore, and you can't run both an AESA and a PESA radar together because you can't physically fit two radars into allocated space for one. Suggest to run with the AESA from the start, or keep the Stock radar and use software tweaks, with the AESA for when there's more money.

Quote:
4. Thruster units added to the shoulders ( They look similar to the Shiranui Second's ), the waist block and the chest to increase 3D mobility. These thruster units have thrust vectoring nozzles. Improvements are made to speed up deployment of the knife from the knee sheath by several tenths of a second and the back mounted halberd to about 0.5 second. The legs are enlarged to increase propellant capacity
.

Thruster wise, I have no issues as this is essentially what happened with the ACTV and XFJ-01. Not sure the chest has room to fit the thrusters, though. Larger legs for more fuel is fine, but you're going to see performance tradeoffs from extra weight and drag (refer to Conformal Fuel Tank deployment on the F-15E/I/SG vs the F-15C). Your thrusters may not necessarily compensate for those tradeoffs - or they might burn so much fuel to generate the thrust to compensate for the drag that your fuel stores and operating time are lower compared to stock.

Quote:
5. New engines. High output and high efficiency.
May as well get the F-22 engines to save on reinvention of the wheel. I agree that you'll need this.

Quote:
6. Two 20mm gatling gun CIWS mounted to the head.
Not going to happen. There is not enough space to physically mount two gatlings, even if they are the 3 barrel or 4-barrel versions. If you need a CIWS, ATK makes a .50 BMG chaingun. Load it with Raufoss rounds.

Quote:
7. New assault cannon design. Fires 36mm rounds and has an underslung 120mm cannon that fires the new 120mm caseless rounds Blackforge develops. The most unique feature of this new design is the barrel. They added coilgun tech into the barrels of the 36m and 120mm. As the 36mm round's gunpowder ignites and makes the shell travel down the barrel the magnetic coils further accelerates the shell. It significantly increases the shell's speed, accuracy and kinetic energy.
You may as well make it a coilgun from the get go. The problem is that your proposed mechanism involves a great amount of heat, which will warp your barrels really damn fast.

You want fast rounds? 36mm sabot shells. The problem with sabot is that the smaller it gets, the better it penetrates, but the less damage it does. You may also want to consider investing in SAPHEI shells instead.

Quote:
8. 120mm autocannon. It looks like a MG460 Automatic Grenade Launcher. For a comparison in size it's the size of a Striker shotgun on a TSF scale. Meant to deliver a hail of 120mm rounds in a short time. It's like a portable fully automatic howitzer
.

Ammo drums are harder to store and will take up more space. Really, if you wanted a grenade gun, I'd suggest something on the USAS-12 design.

Quote:
9. A sword that looks similar to the YF-23's sword. But this sword is a mono molecular blade. It's made of light but strong and resilient composite materials. It's lighter compared to other melee weapons. This thing is built for speed and to slice.
... No. Not happening. Blackforge does not have unlimited resources, and the materials sciences in canon have not yet achieved the point when you can get monomolecular blades (so far that I can see). You're on a tight budget and need sonething other nations can afford. Resurrect the XCIWS-2B from the YF-23 project and reuse the XAMWS-24 rifle; blade and rifle are stored on the same pylon, giving you more options.
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Old 2012-11-07, 15:00   Link #445
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http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7112821/...-into-the-Loop

is up
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Old 2012-11-07, 16:51   Link #446
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Originally Posted by kaizerknight01 View Post
YES. now to get home fast.
I can't imagine what plot will be coming next.. but i think something more BETA related?
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Old 2012-11-07, 19:13   Link #447
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The next thing to come up is shitty politics involving outside of Japan and also the leffovers of Japan. The vultures will really start showing up to hunt to meat.
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Old 2012-11-08, 04:00   Link #448
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*kicks fanfic in the fender*

*fanfic sputters and coughs for a few seconds before beginning to sing in the beautiful harmonious tunes of canonical correctness*

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8314408/2/A-Cadet-s-Account

YO GUYS I THINK I FIXED IT.
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Old 2012-11-08, 05:41   Link #449
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I'm not sure anyone really cares anymore, canonical correctness is not exactly the point of fanfics anyway. Heck look how much the other fanfics posted in here totally disregard canon, and people just have fun with reading those eh?
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Old 2012-11-08, 09:19   Link #450
Dragonkid11
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Originally Posted by Micropod View Post
I'm not sure anyone really cares anymore, canonical correctness is not exactly the point of fanfics anyway. Heck look how much the other fanfics posted in here totally disregard canon, and people just have fun with reading those eh?
Oh whatever,I will just at least make my fanfic make sense rather than alter the already prefect canon(Well,most of it)
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:30   Link #451
John117xCortana
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
This is essentially what Boening did with the ACTV, so I don't see any mJor issues with this. however, I'm personally wary pf maling statements such as "substantial" when it's difficult to quantify.
What word would you suggest ?
Quote:
There's a certain hard limit you reach before you can't miniaturise anymore, and you can't run both an AESA and a PESA radar together because you can't physically fit two radars into allocated space for one. Suggest to run with the AESA from the start, or keep the Stock radar and use software tweaks, with the AESA for when there's more money.
Right.
.

Quote:
Thruster wise, I have no issues as this is essentially what happened with the ACTV and XFJ-01. Not sure the chest has room to fit the thrusters, though. Larger legs for more fuel is fine, but you're going to see performance tradeoffs from extra weight and drag (refer to Conformal Fuel Tank deployment on the F-15E/I/SG vs the F-15C). Your thrusters may not necessarily compensate for those tradeoffs - or they might burn so much fuel to generate the thrust to compensate for the drag that your fuel stores and operating time are lower compared to stock.



May as well get the F-22 engines to save on reinvention of the wheel. I agree that you'll need this.
They compensate the extra weight by using more powerful engines. Not sure if the F-22 engines can fit on an Eagle chassis. Also, I thought the US doesn't sell the F-22 or any of it's parts to other nations ?
Quote:
Not going to happen. There is not enough space to physically mount two gatlings, even if they are the 3 barrel or 4-barrel versions. If you need a CIWS, ATK makes a .50 BMG chaingun. Load it with Raufoss rounds.
Ok scrap the gatling. How about a revolver cannon ?
Quote:
You may as well make it a coilgun from the get go. The problem is that your proposed mechanism involves a great amount of heat, which will warp your barrels really damn fast.

You want fast rounds? 36mm sabot shells. The problem with sabot is that the smaller it gets, the better it penetrates, but the less damage it does. You may also want to consider investing in SAPHEI shells instead.
The only pure magnetically accelerated fully automatic weapon is the EML-99X. And that thing is huge. The one I'm talking about is more primitive but simpler. Hm.. instead of putting the magnetic coils into the barrel how about attaching it to the barrel ? Something like how you attach a silencer to your gun.
.
Quote:

Ammo drums are harder to store and will take up more space. Really, if you wanted a grenade gun, I'd suggest something on the USAS-12 design.
It's stored externally using the mount pylons.


Quote:
... No. Not happening. Blackforge does not have unlimited resources, and the materials sciences in canon have not yet achieved the point when you can get monomolecular blades (so far that I can see). You're on a tight budget and need sonething other nations can afford. Resurrect the XCIWS-2B from the YF-23 project and reuse the XAMWS-24 rifle; blade and rifle are stored on the same pylon, giving you more options.
So you are ok with particle cannons, fully automatic railguns and an anti-grav drive that also doubles as an energy shield but you draw the line with mono molecular blades ?
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:01   Link #452
Alastor Mobius Toth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post

They compensate the extra weight by using more powerful engines. Not sure if the F-22 engines can fit on an Eagle chassis. Also, I thought the US doesn't sell the F-22 or any of it's parts to other nations ?
As far as I'm aware, the F-15ACTV does use some devices from the Raptor, or at least ones derived from Raptor's technology.

Yes, sale of F-22 is outlawed, but I don't know about individual parts. I'm pretty sure that F-35 is supposed to be using some parts from the Raptor, but not all, hence why its meant as USA's 3rd Gen. export product.

Quote:
The only pure magnetically accelerated fully automatic weapon is the EML-99X. And that thing is huge. The one I'm talking about is more primitive but simpler. Hm.. instead of putting the magnetic coils into the barrel how about attaching it to the barrel ? Something like how you attach a silencer to your gun.
EML was devised by Yokohama Super-Science lab (not actual name), which is wwwwwaaaaayyyyyyy ahead of technological curve in some aspects. And it's actually small in real-life terms. Really small. The smallest railgun the U.S has actually built is as large as a destroyer.

From my point of view, the "add-on" idea sounds interesting (science be dammn - I'm not a Physicist Jim, I'm a writer!), but coils are generally vulnerable things; wouldn't they get worn down too easily to make it practical in any way? Plus, it's just asking itself to be ripped off in a heat of combat.


Quote:
It's stored externally using the mount pylons.
Wouldn't that make the TSF vulnerable? Anyone ambushing it from the back might quite easily shoot up your ammunition supplies, or they can be ripped off by BETAs. Although it is conceivable that there might be a "magazine" of sorts, like a box that would store the drums and would then dispense them on command.


Quote:
So you are ok with particle cannons, fully automatic railguns and an anti-grav drive that also doubles as an energy shield but you draw the line with mono molecular blades ?
First two of the above were made by Yokohama labs, fully abusing properties of BETA technology. Both are also large, relatively fragile and require absurd amount of power to operate. Gravity field is a side effect of using said BETA technology by American black ops weapon project - which was deemed as impractical, since then-current computers were unable to maintain the field, causing internal gravity on XGs to rip people apart. It took a specially designed quantum computer to get it under control. And it's certainly not a small device like a blade. So yes, monomolecular blades are not viable weapon...if it's meant to be a mass-produced TSF.

I can imagine that someone would have the exact concept on their drawing boards in MuvLuv, but the technology required to make it would be absurdly expensive. Plus, if this is intended as American machine...well, Americans would never let anyone get this kind of technology. Especially if it plays up to design strengths of other nations TSFs.

Not unless there was a big regime change.

Hope this helps. Otherwise, sounds pretty interesting & can't wait to see the final product.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:37   Link #453
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Blackforge isn't selling it's products to just one nation. They are selling to multiple. They're an international company. They don't have the licenses required to produce the F-15s. Those belong to Boening. What they can do however is convert their customer's F-15Es and F-15Cs into the Black Eagles. Sort of like how The Soviets converted the F-4s into the MiG-21s.

If you have any suggestions on the cooling system for the hybird coilgun assault cannons please share.

If the OC forfeited the match right when he was in a perfect position to take out his 3rd Raptor (Leon ) would the Infinities take it as an insult ? As in they'd interpret it as the pilot's way of saying that they weren't worth the effort to finish them off.

PS. Alastor, do you mind if I PM to you ?
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Old 2012-11-08, 13:54   Link #454
Alastor Mobius Toth
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I don't know enough physics to devise one...it would definitely need something really, really cold.

Or heatsinks.

Yes, it would be an insult. I'm pretty sure everyone in Yukon other than Scarlet Twins would take it that way too in their place.

Not at all. Feel free to PM me.
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Old 2012-11-08, 21:32   Link #455
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Originally Posted by Micropod View Post
I'm not sure anyone really cares anymore, canonical correctness is not exactly the point of fanfics anyway. Heck look how much the other fanfics posted in here totally disregard canon, and people just have fun with reading those eh?
A fanfic is inherently diverging from canon by its very existence. Thing is, in those cases it is acknowledged by the authors that divergences with canon are happening. *

Take the example of Tiberium Wars, Peptuck's novelisation of the epynomous game, which diverges from canon in several areas, but makes the effort to ensure that the changes make sense within the established framework set by the verse.

The difference here is that what Hagoshod wrote (Izumi joining A-01) doesn't fit the verse and contradicts what has been established. The result is thus something that appears internally inconsistent. And then, when this was pointed out, he acted with smug conceit, insisting that he was correct when he was clearly wrong. That kind of conceit is off-putting.

Also it's still not canon-compliant; Yuuko wants combat virgins. Otherwise Marimo would not have been an instructor, she would have been a member of Valkyries. (Or maybe not; I'm aware Marimo's gifting is not leadership but teaching, but then again leadership is one of those things you can learn.)

So honestly? I can't really be arsed to look at that fic, as I do not care anymore.

*This is aside from novelisations or fics where the scope is open ended enough that the author can, with some tweaking, make it fit plausibly into an area that is not touched by canon - Mass Effect: Interregnum, which takes place during Garrus Vakarian's time of Omega while Shepherd was being rebuilt, is a good example of this kind of fic.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
Oh whatever,I will just at least make my fanfic make sense rather than alter the already prefect canon(Well,most of it)
Readers will accept much, if what is written is internally consistent, and if the alterations make sense; for instance, canon has 120mm sabot shells being ineffective at frontal shots to Destroyers. This is because most sabot shells are using steel penetrators, according to canon. In Comet, we have Destroyers taken down with frontal shots, because the Americans are now mass-producing sabot shells using depleted uranium penetrators, which have superior performance to steel penetrators. That said, they still apply standard TSF doctrine and go for rear and side shots to maximise effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
What word would you suggest ?
Just say improvements. We have no hard figures to show here.

Quote:
They compensate the extra weight by using more powerful engines. Not sure if the F-22 engines can fit on an Eagle chassis. Also, I thought the US doesn't sell the F-22 or any of it's parts to other nations ?
Alastor Mobius Toth has responded most ably, but I'l just chime in that there's a danger that for those new engines to counteract that extra weight, they may burn fuel so much that your operating time is lowered.

Quote:
Ok scrap the gatling. How about a revolver cannon?
Bulk and size issues. Like I said, if you want a head CIWS as a last ditch weapon against tanks, I'd suggest the .50 BMG chaingun.

Quote:
So you are ok with particle cannons, fully automatic railguns and an anti-grav drive that also doubles as an energy shield but you draw the line with mono molecular blades ?
In a word, yes.

More specifically, because as AMT said we get all those things from abusing BETA technology, and he's already explained quite well why. i'll just add that with our current level of materials sciences, any mono molecular blade is going to be absurdly sharp, yet so brittle that it will break on first usage, rendering it useless.

Though I have a crazy idea of using a Destroyer's carapace to make your blade
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Old 2012-11-08, 21:36   Link #456
G147
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Found another interesting fanfiction

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8628583/...moment-miracle
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Old 2012-11-08, 22:41   Link #457
Dragonkid11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Readers will accept much, if what is written is internally consistent, and if the alterations make sense; for instance, canon has 120mm sabot shells being ineffective at frontal shots to Destroyers. This is because most sabot shells are using steel penetrators, according to canon. In Comet, we have Destroyers taken down with frontal shots, because the Americans are now mass-producing sabot shells using depleted uranium penetrators, which have superior performance to steel penetrators. That said, they still apply standard TSF doctrine and go for rear and side shots to maximise effect.
Huh?I thought the kinetic penetrators are made of DU even in canon

Quote:
In a word, yes.

More specifically, because as AMT said we get all those things from abusing BETA technology, and he's already explained quite well why. i'll just add that with our current level of materials sciences, any mono molecular blade is going to be absurdly sharp, yet so brittle that it will break on first usage, rendering it useless.

Though I have a crazy idea of using a Destroyer's carapace to make your blade
You could try to use vibro or heat blades though,that sound a lot less advanced and simpler to maintenance
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Old 2012-11-08, 23:07   Link #458
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Huh?I thought the kinetic penetrators are made of DU even in canon.
That's what I thought too, but the Muv-Luv wiki states that the sabot shells use steel penetrators. That said, the DU-tipped HVAP ammo for the 36mm guns seem an outgrowth of the 30mm API for the GAU-8.

Quote:
You could try to use vibro or heat blades though,that sound a lot less advanced and simpler to maintenance
Moving parts and heating coils mean more maintennance time. *shrug* Chainsaw blades are probably the best compromise.
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Old 2012-11-10, 03:05   Link #459
John117xCortana
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post


Just say improvements. We have no hard figures to show here.
How about saying improved to the point where it's performance is at 3rd gen levels ? or a Quasi 3rd ?

Quote:
Alastor Mobius Toth has responded most ably, but I'l just chime in that there's a danger that for those new engines to counteract that extra weight, they may burn fuel so much that your operating time is lowered.
Thats what the extra fuel is for. That and lighter armor because armor doesn't offer much protection against BETA. Unless it's ablative armor.

Quote:

Bulk and size issues. Like I said, if you want a head CIWS as a last ditch weapon against tanks, I'd suggest the .50 BMG chaingun.
A revolver cannon is a lot smaller than a gatling.


Quote:
In a word, yes.

More specifically, because as AMT said we get all those things from abusing BETA technology, and he's already explained quite well why. i'll just add that with our current level of materials sciences, any mono molecular blade is going to be absurdly sharp, yet so brittle that it will break on first usage, rendering it useless.

Though I have a crazy idea of using a Destroyer's carapace to make your blade
Hm...you may be on to something there. Reused the armor as a weapon...
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Old 2012-11-10, 03:37   Link #460
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
How about saying improved to the point where it's performance is at 3rd gen levels ? or a Quasi 3rd ?
That would work, yes. Saying like that - quasi 3rd gen - gives you wriggle room without worrying over specifics.

Quote:
Thats what the extra fuel is for. That and lighter armor because armor doesn't offer much protection against BETA. Unless it's ablative armor
.

Just pointing out that sometimes the bigger engine don't translate into better performance; it's something you learn very quick as a Warship Gunner player. But in this case, if it works, it works.

Quote:
A revolver cannon is a lot smaller than a gatling
.
I think I need to explain more - my interpretation of the head CIWS is that it's a weapon of last resort, an equivalent to a sidearm. You don't use the pistol as your main weapon; it's a weapon you use as long as you can to fight your way to a rifle.

As such, a .50 BMG chaingun, which is smaller than a 20mm revolver cannon, would in my opinion work better for this role, as the smaller size allows you to carry more ammo and you're not using it to fight destroyers and grapplers, but Tanks, Warriors and Soldiers to keep them off you long enough for you to get to a rifle.

Quote:
Hm...you may be on to something there. Reused the armor as a weapon...
It was a crack idea. That said, who knows? Maybe it could work.
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