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Old 2013-09-08, 20:36   Link #1441
Wild Goose
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehawk View Post
Next bit. I'm literally going through hell right now, what with being forced to buy a new laptop because my old one just died, family problems, work problems, and some very big cracks in my sanity starting to show up.
*plays Yukikaze piono leitmotif song thingy that he can't remember the title of*

Intrigued. Very Intrigued. Todd Crane gives me a Rei Fukai vibe.. Eagerly watching.

Inb4 Elle falls in love with her UCAV-

*Goose is shot*
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Old 2013-09-10, 07:08   Link #1442
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
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As long as I don't get bashed for having a fic with nothing but OCs again I'll continue it.
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Old 2013-09-10, 08:40   Link #1443
wavehawk
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I promise. Once I finish this chapter, I'll arrange it in a way that it flows better.

Quote:
The control pod was still open, though not by Elle's choice. Crew and staff were finalizing the repair and conversion process for the Icon Flight TSFs. Though the Strike Eagle frame was a tried-and-true unit, it was also old. Consistent checks were needed to ensure the machines did not fail during the test flight. All Burkhart could do was wait in the pod for the go-ahead for launch, even as she saw all the activity around the humanoid giants.

Fine-tuning the TSFs, Burkhart could not get the phrase out of her head. Idle fingers tapped the UCAV helmet, resisting the urge to put it on. In a sense, the TSF was the star of the earth's military show. Tanks, helicopters and UCAVs played a part alongside infantry. But the TSF and it's imposing height stood out, was representative of humanity's resistance to the alien BETA. You'd think TSFs were the only weapon system in the world.

"Did you talk to Crane this morning?"

Elle's heart stopped a second, turning to see Lumumba beside the control pod. A mild terror came over her as she wondering how he had found out.

"What was he doing out there?" Lumumba asked, comfortable that no one else was within earshot.

"Standing. Looking at the stars." Burkhart replied, regaining her composure. Of course Lumumba would know. The Pit has eyes. She tried not to let Crane's uncomfortable words shake her once again."You and Wilkes didn't exactly give me background information on either Crane or Asakura."

"We didn't want you to have any biases." Lumumba responded. He then looked at Icon-2 in the distance. The techs were giving thumbs-up signals, indicating it was ready. A look at Icon-3 however, told him the other machine was undergoing checks. "Both Crane and Asakura are...different. From your usual TSF pilot."

Hm. "Does Crane do that often? Walking outside, I mean."

Antoine nodded, and Elle could see the point. Both TSF pilots were under suspicion.

"I don't think he was communicating with anyone. More like he was just standing out there to be alone." Burkhart could imagine that Crane's personality would make him difficult to get along with, even among the members of Phantom Works. "I couldn't really converse with him."

"The Cannibal?" Antoine shrugged. "He's not much of a talker."

Burkhart wasn't sure she wanted to know why Crane was called 'The Cannibal'. And she was dreading the opportunity to talk to the other pilot. "I haven't spoken to Asakura yet."

"Oh boy." Lumumba smiled, shaking his head. He could see the Icon-3 crew give their thumbs-up. Takeoff preparations would commence soon. "You're going to love him."

I've heard that tone often enough to know I'll regret it.

Elle watched Lumumba walk off. Not long after, a siren sounded. Burkhart took that as her cue to close the control pod. A moment of darkness covered her sight before she once again donned the UCAV control helmet.

Clear runway.

"Watchtower-1. I have control."
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Old 2013-09-10, 09:35   Link #1444
ServantOfPriss
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As long as you don't post it in 4chan and becomes their enemy like Paul, you'll be fine.
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Old 2013-09-11, 05:20   Link #1445
wavehawk
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I'm not posting it to 4ch. They don't like me, I don't like them, we leave each other well enough alone and it works that way.

BTW, still working on the next part, but wrote down a conversation worth considering:
Quote:
"We're not just testing TSFs and their weapons. This is a whole new concept of warfare. One
that doesn't need humans in the mix." Lumumba replied, an air of justification in his voice.
"Humans are just bags of meat. The BETA made that very clear. It doesn't matter how
sophisticated or powerful the weapons we make become, the human inside is always the
unavoidable weak spot."

"This." He casually tossed a can, which Elle caught easily. "That's what we are to the BETA.
TSF pilots, tank drivers--doesn't matter. A can of Spam. Open it up, bite into the soft
juicy red meat inside."

Burkhart swore she would never eat Spam again.
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Last edited by wavehawk; 2013-09-11 at 08:09.
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Old 2013-09-13, 11:32   Link #1446
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
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next partial segment.
Quote:
A JIVES simulation was in effect.

Every time a kill was made, an excited burst of data shot through the link feed. As with yesterday, the two pilots were unmoved during maneuvers. But the data streams between the two machines were vibrant, almost manic. No sound was heard from the pilot, but the feedback from the machine's avionics was consistent. Burkhart could not make sense of any information pouring through; to her eyes it looked like gibberish. Machines screaming information, fragmented and cutting. Like a hammer to glass, shattered and random.

Unlike the encounter with real BETA the day before, the JIVES simulation was far more fierce. Burkhart grimaced at the simulated hordes that Icon Flight faced. Most of the breeds seen yesterday were there, Tank-class, Grappler- and Destroyer-class. But there was far more variety of BETA in this group, which Elle did not forsee.

Such as the inclusion of Laser-Class BETA.

Simulated flashes of light cut the virtual battlescape. In a real battle, the high-powered beams would take aim at Phantom Arc and other flying machines first. TSFs would follow, and then short work would be made of any remaining ground forces. Laser-class BETA were soft and fragile forms, but their ability to generate a high-powered beam were the reason humanity could not simply bomb the massed BETA into extinction. Laser-class were what made TSFs necessary on the battlefield--hovering close to the ground and engaging other BETA head-on was the only way to eliminate such a horde.

Which was why Elle could not understand why the pilots kept leaping into the air, ripe for Laser-class attack.

White clouds rippled across Icon-2's body as it whipped at impossibly sharp right angles to avoid the simulated laser attacks. A TSF was fast and highly maneuverable in flight, but it was not an aircraft. It simply lacked the aerodynamic characteristics for sub-sonic, much less supersonic flight. The data flowing in at this time seemed to bear a strained emotion to it.

Like gritting its teeth. Elle watched dispassionately at the TSFs' movements.

A warning sounded, the fifteenth for Icon-2 as a simulated Laser-class beam scored a direct hit. Icon-3 had already been shot down twenty-two times. Each time, the scenario would be reset and the JIVES simulation would restart the BETA assault, Laser-class and all.

These aren't Laserjagd tactics. They're just leaping straight into the Laser-class field of fire. Elle did not think the pilots were idiots. The suicidal maneuvers against Laser-class had a purpose, but Burkhart could not figure out what. Or maybe it was part of the 'new initiative' Lumumba and Wilkes were referring to. Still, Elle couldn't see the point of openly baiting a squad of Laser-Class. She continued to watch as Icon flight repeated the process of leaping straight into Laser-class fire. The pilots and their TSFs' average survival time was roughly two minutes. Much less than the 'eight minutes of death' that the average active-duty TSF pilot was expected to survive during a real BETA attack. Wilkes hasn't said a word, either.

It was then Icon-2 stopped trying.

The TSF stood there, refusing to move even though the JIVES simulation began again.

"Iori is right. This test is a waste of time." Todd Crane's flat voice declared on the communication line, not annoyed or arrogant. Like a machine printing out a result, stating a fact. "A simulation is not real."

Who's Iori? Burkhart wondered who among the techs or staff Crane was referring to. She then remembered Lumumba and Min-Jae mentioning the name yesterday, as well. One of the TSF mechanics?

"Pit to Icon-2," Lumumba's exasperated voice sounded of defeat. "Are you having problems again?"

"Iori again!" Masato Asakura's voice broke the silence, and Icon-3 gave Icon-2 what Elle thought was a mocking look. "I can go another thousand rounds if you need to!"

Crane was unmoved. "It's a waste of time."

"Admit it, Abyss is better." Masato had a childish petulance in his tone of voice. "You're just too chicken to try again."

Crane did not respond.

Abyss? Burkhart had no idea who or what Asakura was talking about. there seemed to be a more low-key jabbing between the two TSFs' data links. Something that felt mildly hostile.

The two Icon machines stood there, even as the simulated BETA charged straight into them. Like holograms, the virtual BETA strode straight through without stopping. it made for a surreal experience as Phantom Arc showed JIVES-BETA simply passing through the TSFs with no adverse response.

Strange? Burkhart wondered why neither of the Icon machines reacted. JIVES directly affected a TSF's control systems, simulating for the pilot what an actual impact should have been like. The two TSFs should at least have been slightly shaken. But the JIVES-simulation BETA simply walked through Icon-2 and -3 like virtual ghosts.

"This exercise is a wrap." Wilkes again, and again there was clear frustration in his harsh voice. "Suspend JIVES. Icon Flight, return to base."

The JIVES-BETA disappeared in a wink.

Crane turned Icon-2 back to base. "Roger. RTB."

"Roger that, sir." Burkhart heard the low tones of a snarl in Asakura's voice, and the way he pronounced 'sir' like 'cur'. "Icon-3 RTB."

The two Icon machines took off, and Phantom Arc followed. But Elle wasn't sure she followed the conversation the two pilots had. Who's Iori, and what's this Abyss that Asakura is referring to?

A small pip sounded, and Elle was surprised to see a new data entry from Icon-2. What surprised her was that this bit of data was aimed directly at Phantom Arc. At her.

BETA = FALSE

?
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Old 2013-09-14, 18:12   Link #1447
Alastor Mobius Toth
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>posting stories on 4chan boards that aren't /tg/

>people surprised at the backlash.

That's like putting a fully loaded AK-47 to your head, and wondering why you died when you pulled the trigger.

I just go on /m/ for occasional spoiler, and to make myself feel better.

Also, newest Comet chapter is nearly 100% finished. After that, editing and who knows. Maybe even a release.
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Old 2013-09-14, 18:14   Link #1448
Fireminer
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Finally! Chapter 11, huh? Please update it ASAP!
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Old 2013-09-14, 19:48   Link #1449
Wild Goose
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Age: 28
COMMENCE OPERATION JELLY EATER.

*Goose is shot*
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Old 2013-09-15, 00:56   Link #1450
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
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Something that came to mind when I saw one of the segments Sasahar wrote about Valkyries:
Quote:
A worm on the ground
looks up at the sky
and wonders about flight.

Then birds come and eat it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post
That's like putting a fully loaded AK-47 to your head, and wondering why you died when you pulled the trigger.
- Before I moved to Australia, I lived in the Philippines. There's a LOT of people who do obviously stupid things (like holding a high-powered firecracker in their fingers, throwing tons of garbage into small sewers, or electing the same moneygrubbing morons to public office) and then get surprised when the obvious result happens...Guess what they do next?

That's right: They say it's all God's fault.

Have to apologize, though. One of the reasons I haven't read Comet or Valkyries or any of the other fics is because I don't want to be influenced by other ML stories at this stage--you know how my mind works; whenever a minutely interesting idea runs past me, everythign goes pear-shaped and I start writign about it (and delaying or killing my existing fic work in the progress).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose
COMMENCE OPERATION JELLY EATER.
- (Imagines Yuuya Snake confronting his resurrected father in a minefield-filled stage in Zanzibar...)

AAARRGH SEE WHAT I MEAN?!?!?
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Old 2013-09-16, 15:28   Link #1451
Alastor Mobius Toth
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Cryska as Solid Snake, and Inia as Liquid Ocelot.

YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO.

Also, latest Comet chapter has been sent to editing.
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Old 2013-09-16, 20:24   Link #1452
faiz blaster
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On a side note, I've been thinking on going for my own Muv-Luv fanfic eventually.
I have a base idea in my head, but it's still so crude that I can't even make a raw draft. Thus, I don't believe I can get on with this anytime soon.....

....but at least I've got the summary for the fanfiction.net page ready.

Spoiler for The summary.....:
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Old 2013-09-16, 22:38   Link #1453
Wild Goose
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I have the draft of Comet Chapter 11. Will start BETAing this weekend.

I'll say this though; there's no place like a stage~
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Old 2013-09-17, 05:48   Link #1454
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
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Some days, the words flow out like a firehose. Other days you'de got to bleed them out of your brain. Gaaaaah.

I'm trying to make descriptions of weapons sound like normal conversation without making like a whole set of diagrammatics and technical data that only weapons and firepower geeks will understand, and god forbid if I end up making it boring enough to have someone shoot themselves while reading it. But it's necessary, the problem is the flow of the writing--it's all over the place like a drunken stag party.

How DO you make this stuff sound like normal conversation, anyway?

Quote:
"The warheads are programmable for different targets. For example, you can select air-burst mode against grouped Warrior- or Soldier-class. Or impact detonation against Tank- or Grappler-class. You can even have a delayed-fuse explosion, mess up a BETA advance a bit that way."
- and before someone says I'm Mary Sue-ing this so-called weapon, it exists in real life, it's called the AGM-176 Griffin missile system. It's used by some newer Reaper drones and the KC-130 (Harvest Hawk modification) as either a rocket-launched missile or a guided bomb. A few years after Operation Ouka, I think there'd be enough breathing room to develop an ML:Alt equivalent of this sort of weapon--smaller warhead but more precise munition for eliminating BETA and potentially other humans.
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Old 2013-09-17, 07:27   Link #1455
Alastor Mobius Toth
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It's not really OP, since Muv-Luv has, canonically, equally advanced missiles circa '84.

American AIM-54 Phoenixes are described as cluster, GPS-guided missiles, which are able to effectively avoid Laser-class BETA by flying beneath their firing arc. Yes, Americans have Laser-defying missiles. In 1984.

I don't think age staff had really thought through all the implications that TSF- and BETA-derived tech will have on the military. In fact, the longer I think about it, the more I think UN Pacific Force and Japanese Army are using vendor-trash level equipment. I mean, steel penetrators? I'm not a military expert, but I'm pretty sure those things were outdated long before BETA came to Earth.

Hence Japanese military will probably be tad better in Comet then in canon Alt.

The real OP weapon, is the fully automatic shotgun cannon I made for Comet short-story collection that I have been talking about occasionally. It's a prototype American gun, made on the basis of Mk.57 technology. It can fire AT grenades. Rocket-propelled, depleted-uranium tipped grenades.

Destroyer-class BETA? Never heard of them.
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Old 2013-09-17, 09:28   Link #1456
John117xCortana
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Sounds exactly like a Bolter from Warhammer 40k.
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Old 2013-09-17, 10:07   Link #1457
Wild Goose
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@Wavehawk: That's not Mary Sue, that's merely setting up the guidance system and warhead options. The Talos, Tartar, Terrier and Standard SAMs used by the US Navy on its guided missile destroyers and cruisers had a secondary surface to surface mode (hey, big missile, big warhead, would sure do a number...) which is why these are probably the main bombardment missiles Aegis ships would fire (with terrain-following Tomahawks for laser-avoidance work).

@AMT:
Pretty much. Also, to put things into perspective:

Stell penetrators were first used at the onset of WW2, as the cap/head/point of standard Armor Piercing rounds. Then, when sabot rounds and AP Composite Rigid rounds were developed, steel continued to be used since it was available; however by 1944 latest, the German army was already using tungsten penetrators for its APCR rounds for its tanks (though for the most part they were still stuck with steel since it's a lot easier and cheaper to get steel than tungsten, which is fuck expensive).

By 60s, practically everyone who was using sabot shells was using tungsten (well, those who could afford it), even USSR (well, they also made steel for their monkey models).

However, by the 70s, America started moving away from tungsten to depleted uranium, because of several reasons: You can get DU as a byproduct of uranium used for nuclear reactors and nuclear warheads (and by then, the US had a shitload of warheads), depleted uranium is significantly cheaper than tungsten, being a dense heavy metal, DU has better kinetic energy and armor penetration, DU has a tendency to shatter into razor-sharp shards on impact, and lastly, DU is porphyritic, meaning that shit burns on contact with air.

Quoting Wikipedia: Depleted uranium is favored for the penetrator because it is self-sharpening and pyrophoric. On impact with a hard target, such as an armored vehicle, the nose of the rod fractures in such a way that it remains sharp. The impact and subsequent release of heat energy causes it to disintegrate to dust and burn when it reaches air because of its pyrophoric properties.[30] When a DU penetrator reaches the interior of an armored vehicle it catches fire, often igniting ammunition and fuel, killing the crew and possibly causing the vehicle to explode. DU is used by the U.S. Army in 120 mm or 105 mm cannons employed on the M1 Abrams tank. The Russian military has used DU ammunition in tank main gun ammunition since the late 1970s, mostly for the 115 mm guns in the T-62 tank and the 125 mm guns in the T-64, T-72, T-80, and T-90 tanks.

So a basic DU penetrator from those guns the GAU-8 shoots with 1) tear through BETA like a hot knife through butter, 2) make a big hole, 3) shatter upon contact with something sufficiently hard that it couldn't penetrate, turning into a burning cloud, and 4) burn the fuckers from inside out.

what does this all mean?

1. American 36mm chaingun ammo should be more lethal than UN standard, unless we're assuming that the US is manufacturing 36mm for the world. For sure, at least the A-10s are probably using an upsized version of the 30mm round they carry standard.

2. Weight issues suggest to me that the 36mm chaingun fires an upsized PGU-28 round, or perhaps a modified M149 APDS round, as opposed to the 30mm fuckoff the A-20 uses.

3. The 120mm DU sabots should perform better than steel penetrators against Destroyers. Yes, Destroyers have shells rated 15 on the Moh's hardness scale, but assuming you can get a hit at the right angle, a DU penetrator should be able to hit through and kill the Destroyer from inside out.

Edit: Also, DU doesn't quite mesh with the idea of an RPG.

RPGs work by relying on a HEAT warhead to high velocity steam of metal to punch through armor. That won't work with DU rounds, because DU rounds rely on the penetrating effect of the DU penetrator and the porphyritic nature of the rounds to set things on fire.

tl;dr if you're already firing DU rounds at the fucker, no need to have a HE charge with it, since the DU will do the trick by itself.
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Old 2013-09-17, 10:48   Link #1458
Alastor Mobius Toth
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Huh. The more you know. I'll probably change it to HEAT rounds then.

Also, it's not really a bolter; the rounds are fired conventionally, and then fire up their rockets. At the moment of their introduction, they're considered as a very unreliable, expensive gadget, but with a lot of potential.

I should also say (both as Muv-Luv reader and fanfic author) that the idea of "Moh 15" carapace has always been...odd to me. Mohs scale goes up only to 10 (which is irl value of diamonds). If you really wanted to designate the carapace as being harder then everything we know, Mohs 11 would suffice. Unless we know harder materials. I suppose, Grapplers claws could be Mohs 11, but that would still make Destroyer be Mohs 12, max.

Another thing, is that Mohs scale does not determine the actual durability of an object. The "hardness" in Mohs scale is measured by the ability to cut other materials, not the actual durability (i.e, how much energy/pressure/whateveryoudefinestrenghtas takes for material to crack). Thus, Mohs 15 only tells us that Destroyer shells make for the most awesome knives ever, but that's not a real justification for ultra-awesome armor.

Diamonds are the hardest minerals on Earth, but they're also very brittle, for example. This is why we use them as lenses and jewelry, and not battle armor (because we can synthesize diamonds). Depleted uranium may be lower on Mohs, but it has a pretty high density, which makes it into one of the most awesome armor available with modern science.

This is the primary reason why American DU rounds are still effective in Comet. Of course, it's still better to hit the Destroyer where its not armored, but that's a different thing entirely. So yes, it's a nerf bat for you, Ruritare~chan.

Also, the VN was not terribly consistent about the actual durability of that thing. I'm pretty sure some actually chops it with a sword at one point, but it's not actually touched upon in-game.
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Last edited by Alastor Mobius Toth; 2013-09-17 at 11:11.
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Old 2013-09-17, 16:34   Link #1459
ServantOfPriss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post
>posting stories on 4chan boards that aren't /tg/

>people surprised at the backlash.

That's like putting a fully loaded AK-47 to your head, and wondering why you died when you pulled the trigger.

I just go on /m/ for occasional spoiler, and to make myself feel better.

Also, newest Comet chapter is nearly 100% finished. After that, editing and who knows. Maybe even a release.
Yeah, me too. I only mentioned it as a very lame "joke", or whatever, because of some trip drama that was on for several months there.


As for fics: I've been thinking of moving the timeline forward, as in, instead of the BETA arriving in 1973, they arrive in 2009. TSFs are now developed using tech intended for modern-day fifth generation fighters, like the F-35.

Maybe use canon characters...maybe use OCs (that get chomp'd instantly or eventually of course), and have tons of military hardware porn to accompany very explicit fanservice descriptions and mecha combat descriptions as well.
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Old 2013-09-17, 21:33   Link #1460
Wild Goose
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Age: 28
Another thing to note on anti destroyer weaponry - HEAT may not be as effective as one hopes against destroyer shells. In the 80s, it was found that when HEAT rounds hit ceramic armor, the ceramic plates shatter and the fragments disperse the hot metal jet. One might have to look into larger DU rounds, either Armor Piercing Fin Stabilised Discarding Sabot (which is what the 120mm is supposed to be loaded with), or other options...

Not to mention that the curved shape of the Destroyer shell is natural sloped armor, which is apparently pretty effective against HEAT, since there's a greater effective thickness of the armor and the sloping means the chance of deflection is higher.

As for the wiki, it states that 36mm guns fire HVAP, which is the US term for Armor Piercing Composite Rigid, which is pretty much an outdated shell design... fifty years ago. Fighting BETA, something like Semi-Armor Piercing High Explosive Incendiary - like the PGU-29 20mm shells for the M61 Vulcan - would be more effective. The GAU-8, on the other hand, would fire Armor Piercing Incendiary, since I'm assuming it's using upscaled 30mm rounds.

Incidentally, during the Cold War, an oft-mentioned figure for the A-10's ammo was 30 US Dollars per shell, which is relatively cheap, all things considered.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2013-09-17 at 21:45.
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