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Old 2013-09-17, 22:14   Link #1461
Fireminer
Lumine Passio
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam
Age: 8
30 dollar...10.000.000+per battle. Nah, not very hard does it?
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Old 2013-09-17, 22:27   Link #1462
ServantOfPriss
Slowpoke
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Okay, I'll elaborate on what I just said:

1988 - The Soviet Phobos 2 sights extraterrestrial life on the surfaces of Mars and one of its moons, Phobos. Contact with the probe is lost, and the Soviet government classifies this discovery as top secret.

1991 - Fall of the Soviet Union. Rumors of Phobos 2's sightings reach NASA, the CIA and other important organizations.

1995 - Former Soviet officials reveal the discovery made by Phobos 2. The news spreads all around the world, and the documents are distributed throughout the internet.

1998 - NASA sends a probe to make contact with the extraterrestrials, but contact with it is lost shortly after sighting a silhouette of one of the aliens. First sighting of an alien "hive".

2002 - The aliens arrive on the Lunar surface. After contact is lost with two rovers, a "delegation" is sent by NASA to make contact with them, but they are slaughtered. After two more rovers are sent, it is soon realized that the aliens are completely hostile. The Moon War begins with the first off-world deployment of US Marines to the Moon. The USAF reactivates the Hardiman II project and, using data from the Japanese HAL, manages to make the first succesful powered exoskeleton, the NCAF-X1. Three are sent to the Moon to support Marine operations.

2003 - The US military cancels the JSF Program. The CIA takes over the personnel and data and instead merges it with the revived Hardiman II project, making the US-exclusive NTSF program (National Tactical Surface Fighter). The first F-35 TSF prototypes are succesfully completed in Area 51. testing begins.

2004 - Moon War ends with total US/Russian defeat. The European Union creates the European Unified Command in the case of a BETA invasion on Earth; NATO is also reorganized.

2005 - The first F-35 TSF units are produced, and the US government discloses their existence. Only Japan, South Korea, Poland, Greece, Turkey, Egypt and a few other nations express interest, with Japan and South Korea being the only ones actually buying models for their military.

2006 - The F-35 is adopted by the USAF as its standard TSF model, while specialized units for the Navy, Marines and even Army are put into development. The F-35J is put into production by Japan for use in the JSDF. Debate in East Asia over Japanese "re-armamentism".

2009 - BETA landing craft are detected heading towards Eurasia. They crash in the vicinity of Kashgar, western Xinjiang, People's Republic of China. The 6th and 4th Motorised (Motorized) Divisions are deployed, and initially fare quite well against the BETA thanks to PLAAF support. However, the BETA deploy Laser-classes and deprive the ground forces from the indispensable air support, causing the PLA to conduct the largest retreat since the Long March. The heads of state of the CSTO members meet in Astana and agree to mobilize their militaries after requests from China to help against the BETA. The US deploys 80 F-35s to Afghanistan in anticipation of a BETA attack. After the Sino-Russian defeat in Kyrgyztan, the BETA push west. American F-35s perform excellently but the BETA's numbers are too much, and the Coalition forces retreat from Central Asia. The BETA begin invading Pakistan and Iran as well.



That's all for now. I'll see if I can improve many things here, try to not make it JUST LIKE original canon (otherwise, there wouldn't be any point).
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Old 2013-09-17, 23:32   Link #1463
Fireminer
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As I see it, Russia will be the first to fall in that scenario. The aftershock of Soviet, combine with the export-depended economy and low birth rate.

But how much OC machine this time?

Anyway, that scenario will work! Just wondering what would happen if the BETA landed on Judgement Day (A.K.A The Eve of 2000)?
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Old 2013-09-18, 05:57   Link #1464
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post
So yes, it's a nerf bat for you, Ruritare~chan.
- ...every time someone says "Ruitare-Chan", I scream at the injustice that is the non-existent Destroyer-Class Plushie.

On Diamonds and carbon-based hard structures: At least with superhard carbon materials, part of the appeal is their light weight and strength, but AFAIK it's mainly for structures--so buildings or the outer armor parts of TSFs. I think that if you compress lots of carbon nanotubes or carbon nanostructures together you could possibly make a very strong physical striking weapon (like Blade Vanes) but definitely firearms are out--the structure would shatter from the gunpowder explosion, or else shatter on impact with a target.

Oh yeah, randomly found this tidbit of info. This may possibly be the explanation for the "Anti-Laser Coating" on TSFs...
A spray-on mixture of carbon nanotubes and ceramic demonstrates unprecedented ability to resist damage while absorbing laser light. Such coatings that absorb as the energy of high-powered lasers without breaking down are essential for optical power detectors that measure the output of such lasers.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/super-nano...m_medium=email
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/am302755x

And on the Griffin misisle, this is what a 10-tube launcher looks like (mounted on a KC-130 Harvest Hawk rear door)


I'm still doublechecking dimensions, but given that size, I figure you could mount to a TSF about 20 or more Griffin missiles in a launcher that's way smaller than the current 16-missile "Shoulder Box" currently in use in ML:Alt/ML:UTDA
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Last edited by wavehawk; 2013-09-18 at 07:37.
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Old 2013-09-18, 20:50   Link #1465
ServantOfPriss
Slowpoke
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Okay, the timeline continues: NATO, ISAF, the CSTO and China have no clue what to do. A-10s, J-15s, Su-25s....they're all useless with Laser-classes running around. Tanks, IFVs, AFVs and infantry are effective...but their numbers are just not enough and the strains' sizes give them a huge tactical advantage.

America has created the Tactical Surface Fighter, learning from experiences in the Moon Wars. But even then, these machines eventually too fall against the BETA onslaught:

2010
  • The BETA make the fastest and biggest advance yet: in less than two months, they have overrun all areas from western Xinjiang to southern Greece, and from Kazakhstan to New Delhi.
  • The United Nations establishes the United Nations Assistance Force.
  • A BETA landing craft crashes in southern Mexico. The USAF uses dozens of nuclear warheads and wipes out the BETA presence in Mexico, at the cost of half of that country's population.
  • Despite sustaining 50% casualties, TSFs are determined to be the best weapons against the BETA. Even non-allies like Russia and China end up ordering F-35s from the US military.
  • NORAD proposes the SDI.
  • Romania, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania and Denmark make the F-35C as their standard TSF, and will remain as such for the duration of the war.
  • Satellite imagery confirms the construction of the Mashhad Hive.

2011
  • The BETA push into the Caucasus.
  • The Russian government evacuates to the Far East.
  • USAF begins the Hi-MAERF Project to make a "strategic surface fighter".
  • Japan revokes Article 9; the Japanese Self Defense Forces are reformed into the Japanese Strategic Forces.
  • Under UN and US permission and supervision, the JSF deploys its F-35Js in Kuwait to support Coalition efforts against the BETA.
  • Russia begins production of the MiG-35.

2012
  • The BETA unexpectedly make a huge advance on Western Russia, with four hordes linking near Oral.
  • Oral Hive is built.
  • Fall of Moscow.
  • The BETA invade and overrun most of the Ukraine and Belarus.
  • Minsk and Velsk Hives are built.
  • BETA incursions into Europe begin.
  • The US begins production of the F-36. The EU Command procures it and makes domestic models for its major members.
  • The US Navy deploys the F-41 in support operations in the Baltic States.
  • France develops the F-36F Cavalier.
  • The Scandinavian Union is formed after the EU fails to negotiate troop deployment in northwest Russia to support the Finnish Line.
  • Sweden develops the JAS 53.
  • Israel develops the F-36I Habanagh.
  • China uses F-35Rs procured from Russia and begins production of the J-20.
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Old 2013-09-19, 04:50   Link #1466
wavehawk
O GALILEO LET ME GO
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Still stuck. I'm throwing words and profanities at the problem, but it just doesn't stick. The whole conversation is as wooden as Blackbeard's peg leg. I'm especially frustrated because I'm at an important part in the fic but it just isn't coming together.
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Old 2013-09-19, 09:58   Link #1467
MrTerrorist
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss View Post
Okay, I'll elaborate on what I just said:

1988 - The Soviet Phobos 2 sights extraterrestrial life on the surfaces of Mars and one of its moons, Phobos. Contact with the probe is lost, and the Soviet government classifies this discovery as top secret.

1991 - Fall of the Soviet Union. Rumors of Phobos 2's sightings reach NASA, the CIA and other important organizations.

1995 - Former Soviet officials reveal the discovery made by Phobos 2. The news spreads all around the world, and the documents are distributed throughout the internet.

1998 - NASA sends a probe to make contact with the extraterrestrials, but contact with it is lost shortly after sighting a silhouette of one of the aliens. First sighting of an alien "hive".

2002 - The aliens arrive on the Lunar surface. After contact is lost with two rovers, a "delegation" is sent by NASA to make contact with them, but they are slaughtered. After two more rovers are sent, it is soon realized that the aliens are completely hostile. The Moon War begins with the first off-world deployment of US Marines to the Moon. The USAF reactivates the Hardiman II project and, using data from the Japanese HAL, manages to make the first succesful powered exoskeleton, the NCAF-X1. Three are sent to the Moon to support Marine operations.

2003 - The US military cancels the JSF Program. The CIA takes over the personnel and data and instead merges it with the revived Hardiman II project, making the US-exclusive NTSF program (National Tactical Surface Fighter). The first F-35 TSF prototypes are succesfully completed in Area 51. testing begins.

2004 - Moon War ends with total US/Russian defeat. The European Union creates the European Unified Command in the case of a BETA invasion on Earth; NATO is also reorganized.

2005 - The first F-35 TSF units are produced, and the US government discloses their existence. Only Japan, South Korea, Poland, Greece, Turkey, Egypt and a few other nations express interest, with Japan and South Korea being the only ones actually buying models for their military.

2006 - The F-35 is adopted by the USAF as its standard TSF model, while specialized units for the Navy, Marines and even Army are put into development. The F-35J is put into production by Japan for use in the JSDF. Debate in East Asia over Japanese "re-armamentism".

2009 - BETA landing craft are detected heading towards Eurasia. They crash in the vicinity of Kashgar, western Xinjiang, People's Republic of China. The 6th and 4th Motorised (Motorized) Divisions are deployed, and initially fare quite well against the BETA thanks to PLAAF support. However, the BETA deploy Laser-classes and deprive the ground forces from the indispensable air support, causing the PLA to conduct the largest retreat since the Long March. The heads of state of the CSTO members meet in Astana and agree to mobilize their militaries after requests from China to help against the BETA. The US deploys 80 F-35s to Afghanistan in anticipation of a BETA attack. After the Sino-Russian defeat in Kyrgyztan, the BETA push west. American F-35s perform excellently but the BETA's numbers are too much, and the Coalition forces retreat from Central Asia. The BETA begin invading Pakistan and Iran as well.



That's all for now. I'll see if I can improve many things here, try to not make it JUST LIKE original canon (otherwise, there wouldn't be any point).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss View Post
Okay, the timeline continues: NATO, ISAF, the CSTO and China have no clue what to do. A-10s, J-15s, Su-25s....they're all useless with Laser-classes running around. Tanks, IFVs, AFVs and infantry are effective...but their numbers are just not enough and the strains' sizes give them a huge tactical advantage.

America has created the Tactical Surface Fighter, learning from experiences in the Moon Wars. But even then, these machines eventually too fall against the BETA onslaught:

2010
  • The BETA make the fastest and biggest advance yet: in less than two months, they have overrun all areas from western Xinjiang to southern Greece, and from Kazakhstan to New Delhi.
  • The United Nations establishes the United Nations Assistance Force.
  • A BETA landing craft crashes in southern Mexico. The USAF uses dozens of nuclear warheads and wipes out the BETA presence in Mexico, at the cost of half of that country's population.
  • Despite sustaining 50% casualties, TSFs are determined to be the best weapons against the BETA. Even non-allies like Russia and China end up ordering F-35s from the US military.
  • NORAD proposes the SDI.
  • Romania, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania and Denmark make the F-35C as their standard TSF, and will remain as such for the duration of the war.
  • Satellite imagery confirms the construction of the Mashhad Hive.

2011
  • The BETA push into the Caucasus.
  • The Russian government evacuates to the Far East.
  • USAF begins the Hi-MAERF Project to make a "strategic surface fighter".
  • Japan revokes Article 9; the Japanese Self Defense Forces are reformed into the Japanese Strategic Forces.
  • Under UN and US permission and supervision, the JSF deploys its F-35Js in Kuwait to support Coalition efforts against the BETA.
  • Russia begins production of the MiG-35.

2012
  • The BETA unexpectedly make a huge advance on Western Russia, with four hordes linking near Oral.
  • Oral Hive is built.
  • Fall of Moscow.
  • The BETA invade and overrun most of the Ukraine and Belarus.
  • Minsk and Velsk Hives are built.
  • BETA incursions into Europe begin.
  • The US begins production of the F-36. The EU Command procures it and makes domestic models for its major members.
  • The US Navy deploys the F-41 in support operations in the Baltic States.
  • France develops the F-36F Cavalier.
  • The Scandinavian Union is formed after the EU fails to negotiate troop deployment in northwest Russia to support the Finnish Line.
  • Sweden develops the JAS 53.
  • Israel develops the F-36I Habanagh.
  • China uses F-35Rs procured from Russia and begins production of the J-20.
Interesting. Keep writing about it. So will the characters from MLU/MLA also appear in this fanfic?
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Old 2013-09-19, 15:25   Link #1468
ServantOfPriss
Slowpoke
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Interesting. Keep writing about it. So will the characters from MLU/MLA also appear in this fanfic?
I'm not sure about it...Maybe they will, albeit older. Since the war in this starts around, say, six years after Extra (if we take it that Extra takes place in 2003, that is), we might find them much, much older, perhaps long after their college years. Although if that's the case, then the Schwarz characters would be significantly older...and in the case of Stasi officers, they'd be irrelevant because of the current policy on East Germany and all.

So I'm not sure. I'm still trying to figure that out.


Okay, so from here on, I'll try to diverge from the actual timeline as much as I can.

2013
  • The BETA from Evensk proceed north and east.
  • The US proposes the World Wide Defense Network Plan to the UN.
  • The Astana Hive is built in Kazakhstan.
  • It is believed Russia first started to deploy alleged "espers" in the front lines this year.
  • The US military deploys the A-15 Invader for the first time in the Levant and Greece.
  • The leaders of the members states of the EU, NATO, the CSTO, CIS and GUAM meet in New Foundland to discuss Operation Palailogos, the objective being to capture one of the East European hives and stop the BETA incursions into Europe.

2014
  • Operation Palailogos is conducted by forces of NATO, the CSTO, GUAM and the EU.
  • The multinational forces manage to beat the BETA into the Minsk Hive. The Siege of Minsk begins.
  • The 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division manages to finally enter the Hive. After six hours, it is eaten apart.
  • The BETA conduct a huge counterattack from Minsk on both east and west, separating the Russian forces from the European forces.
  • The Surgut Hive is built.
  • With the BETA overruning the Baltic States, Germany and the Eastern European nations form the East Front.
  • The US deploys the second Tactical Surface Attacker, the A-20. It is quickly adopted by Germany in order to support the East Front.
  • Polish Campaign ends in the BETA overrunning Poland and reaching the Oder-Neisse Defense System.
  • After reestablishing contact with Russia, Germany begins cooperation with the Russians to develop new TSFs. In exchange for technology and advisors, Russia delivers two hundred MiG-35s to Germany.
  • Germany propses the ECTSF in the EU Council.
  • ANZUS becomes committed to the war effort.
  • By now, conscription is enacted worldwide, and the Draft has been reinstated in the United States.
  • A global Jihad is declared by the Arab League against the BETA.
  • The BETA proceed into the Tibet.
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Old 2013-09-19, 18:50   Link #1469
Fireminer
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam
Age: 8
Hey, could I use this "late arrival" idea for my crossover with Code Geass? I plan for them to land on the "Judgement Day" (2000 New Year Eve).
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Old 2013-09-19, 20:31   Link #1470
ServantOfPriss
Slowpoke
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
The idea of them arriving in the 2000s? It's not really an original idea of mine. I most likely picked it up from the random comments in /m/ or /a/.
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Old 2013-09-20, 20:25   Link #1471
Fireminer
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Age: 8
@Servant: Hey, what about the J-16 and J-31?

Oh, and have anyone try this? "Master of Defense Harkin Triton Out-the-Front Automatic Knife". Could be a space-saving weapon.

Also, does anyone know whether Yuuya is a Christian or not?

Last edited by Fireminer; 2013-09-20 at 21:23.
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Old 2013-09-21, 08:15   Link #1472
Alastor Mobius Toth
Idar Lead
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: World Marshall bureau
For the "BETA arrive late" scenario, I have a question:

Is it Our/Extra verse, or Alternative? Because if it's Alternative, then it might have some major differences to our world in the long run.

As for our universe, there are some things that have to be considered to be subverted/dealt with to give story some credence:

>Lunar landings
If it's Altverse, I can understand why mankind might want to fight BETA on the ground...but otherwise, what is going to stop them from nuking the Moon into an asteroid field? Remember, this is no longer Cold War, and everyone is aware that Aliens are hostile. Lasers are not a concern, because we haven't deployed yet what would require BETA to use laser-class. Thus, they are completely defenseless against any sort of guided missiles.

It would be sufficient for US and USSR alone to just break out their nuke arsenal and bomb Lunar hives until they stop being an issue. Radiation? Space is 100 times more radioactive as it is, this will be only a background spike. Territorial issues? Moon is officially no-man's land. Everyone can agree that aliens are a threat.

Assuming we get past that:

>Earth landings

A 2009-era Earth is going to be much more technologically advanced then 1970s era. Chinese military might not be top-of-the-line, but their current equipment is light-years ahead of the knock-offs they had in 60s and 70s. The BETA will be hard-pressed to get out of Kashgar once Russians and Chinese go on the blitz. It is even conceivable that they might win; since if mankind fought and lost Lunar war, world countries will be aware that BETA are not to be underestimated. This means that PLA will most likely send everything it has on hand, and other countries will possibly help them as well. Again, we're not in the mid of 70s Cold War paranoia, which makes international relations more, well, normal.

>CIA developing TSFs

Just no. Sorry, but no. CIA is an intelligence agency. They don't have the authority, or even resources to do that. If you want a shady secret programs agency, use DARPA, because it's their job to develop American Super-Science (like railguns, which Americans do have irl...they're just very impractical).

TL;DR version:
This has potential, but I'm not sold so far.
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Old 2013-09-21, 15:51   Link #1473
ServantOfPriss
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post

Is it Our/Extra verse, or Alternative? Because if it's Alternative, then it might have some major differences to our world in the long run.
Initially, I was thinking of setting in our world, but lately, I've been thinking of setting it in Extra.

Quote:
As for our universe, there are some things that have to be considered to be subverted/dealt with to give story some credence:

>Lunar landings
If it's Altverse, I can understand why mankind might want to fight BETA on the ground...but otherwise, what is going to stop them from nuking the Moon into an asteroid field? Remember, this is no longer Cold War, and everyone is aware that Aliens are hostile. Lasers are not a concern, because we haven't deployed yet what would require BETA to use laser-class. Thus, they are completely defenseless against any sort of guided missiles.

It would be sufficient for US and USSR alone to just break out their nuke arsenal and bomb Lunar hives until they stop being an issue. Radiation? Space is 100 times more radioactive as it is, this will be only a background spike. Territorial issues? Moon is officially no-man's land. Everyone can agree that aliens are a threat.
While I agree completely with all of that, isn't the Outer Space Treaty still "on"? Like you said, these ARE hostile aliens, but one thing that's pretty noticeable about human politics is that people are stupid and short-sighted.

So maybe America nukes the hell out of the BETA. But how would the other nations react?

Of course, I could say this is a very shitty excuse, but in works like this, I'd say it works. In my very humble opinion. I mean, if for some very improbable reason, BETA suddenly appeared and we realized they were hostile, America (and you can bet Russia and China as well) would give no fucks and nuke the hell out of the Moon.


Quote:
>Earth landings

A 2009-era Earth is going to be much more technologically advanced then 1970s era. Chinese military might not be top-of-the-line, but their current equipment is light-years ahead of the knock-offs they had in 60s and 70s. The BETA will be hard-pressed to get out of Kashgar once Russians and Chinese go on the blitz. It is even conceivable that they might win; since if mankind fought and lost Lunar war, world countries will be aware that BETA are not to be underestimated. This means that PLA will most likely send everything it has on hand, and other countries will possibly help them as well. Again, we're not in the mid of 70s Cold War paranoia, which makes international relations more, well, normal.
This I can agree. In fact, After reading this, I should change the landing site. And that won't fix this issue that easy anyway.

Quote:
>CIA developing TSFs

Just no. Sorry, but no. CIA is an intelligence agency. They don't have the authority, or even resources to do that. If you want a shady secret programs agency, use DARPA, because it's their job to develop American Super-Science (like railguns, which Americans do have irl...they're just very impractical).
You wouldn't believe me, but I completely forgot about DARPA.


This is not a definitive timeline, mind you. In fact, I've been thinking of changing it because it is still TOO similar to the canon, actual timeline.

Thanks for the feedback, because it really helps.
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Old 2013-09-21, 16:26   Link #1474
Alastor Mobius Toth
Idar Lead
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: World Marshall bureau
Not a problem. Always happy to get another Mabu-Ravu started.

Extra universe is pretty similar to ours circa 2001, although I suppose there's the existence of ridiculously powerful groups like Mitsurugi Group.

>Outer Space Treaty

There can be several approaches to it, I think.

The first is assuming that Nuclear-able powers actually will decide to abide by it (since UN can't really enforce it's laws, and both America and Russia are Security Council members), they can argue that the Treaty applies to terrestrial states, not an entity such as alien race, and that this is a "special" situation. To be fair, the language of the OST is somewhat outdated, reflecting the tensions of Cold War that would be end by this point.

As for countries behavior, that depends on the writers evaluation. Personally, I think that countries like Russia and China are interested in self-preservation first. In Muv-Luv, cooperating with Americans wasn't so apparent in face of their ideology-colored world view. Americans and West were still as much an enemy as Aliens. But a Russia circa 2001 might consider aliens to be a sufficient threat to ignore traditional enmities. Especially since Putin wasn't in power yet, so the Russia wasn't entirely in the "Cold War revival" mode it is now. In fact, you could argue that Russia might hop on board with American nuclear attack, because saving mankind from aliens is a pretty big cred boost.

Alternatively, legal trolling. International law is generally full of loopholes, and is open to a very broad interpretation. You can always argue that ICBMs are "ground-to-ground" weapon, and you aren't really breaking the OTS, since they're based off Earth, fire on Earth, and explode before impact, so they aren't, technically, detonating on the Moon. Does it sound silly? Yes, but this would be hardly the first silly thing done in international law.

The best way would be probably to skip Moon phase altogether. Extraverse humanity has same level of space industry, and we technically don't have the capacity to land the Moon (all this technology was lost since 1969, since nobody bothers with the Moon anymore. All this tech would have to be re-developed to modern standards). Instead, BETA land directly on Earth, and the ride starts. This way, we can also explain why nations of Earth didn't shoot the Hives down - they might have not realized that Aliens were hostile, since there was no Lunar contact.
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Old 2013-09-21, 17:04   Link #1475
ServantOfPriss
Slowpoke
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth View Post
Extra universe is pretty similar to ours circa 2001, although I suppose there's the existence of ridiculously powerful groups like Mitsurugi Group.
Speaking of: after watching Gunparade March, I couldn't help but notice similarities between the Shibamuras and the Mitsurugis...


Quote:
As for countries behavior, that depends on the writers evaluation. Personally, I think that countries like Russia and China are interested in self-preservation first. In Muv-Luv, cooperating with Americans wasn't so apparent in face of their ideology-colored world view. Americans and West were still as much an enemy as Aliens. But a Russia circa 2001 might consider aliens to be a sufficient threat to ignore traditional enmities. Especially since Putin wasn't in power yet, so the Russia wasn't entirely in the "Cold War revival" mode it is now. In fact, you could argue that Russia might hop on board with American nuclear attack, because saving mankind from aliens is a pretty big cred boost.
Well, actually, Putin was already acting president by 1999, and got full powers in 2000, and he started all the Chechnya affair disregarding international opinion. However, if we are going this way, then it'd be the Russians who are spearheading whatever campaign humanity has against the BETA at that point.

One thing we should take into account, however, is that humanity doesn't really know the BETA that well. Hell, in Alternative, even decades after war, they barely know them, if they arrived in Extra verse or in our world, they wouldn't know know what the hell is up with them. They'd probably think they use vehicles and the like for combat and have extremely, highly advanced tech of their that they can exploit. So everyone would be racing against each other to get these technologies they think exist.

However, we can fix this by just having the major powers make a secret, prearranged deal, where they agree to distribute whatever tech they find after getting rid of the aliens equally among each other, and then we'd have a G-Element Cold War.

Quote:
The best way would be probably to skip Moon phase altogether. Extraverse humanity has same level of space industry, and we technically don't have the capacity to land the Moon (all this technology was lost since 1969, since nobody bothers with the Moon anymore. All this tech would have to be re-developed to modern standards). Instead, BETA land directly on Earth, and the ride starts. This way, we can also explain why nations of Earth didn't shoot the Hives down - they might have not realized that Aliens were hostile, since there was no Lunar contact.
This actually sounds like a very attractive idea. as humanity would be fighting even more ineffectively against the aliens because of the lack of knowledge on them. That might (note, MIGHT) justify the initial pathetic attempts by whatever militaries that encounter them first on the ground (say, they land in Mexico: and the Mexican Army only sends THREE infantry brigades at them because they see the BETA don't have any actual ranged weapons). Then they realize too late that they're completely outnumbered, but by the time they send the full bulk of their forces, the BETA are no in the tens of millions, and not even leveť en masse can stop the alien hordes.

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Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
@Servant: Hey, what about the J-16 and J-31?
I must be living under a rock. They already made prototypes of those? Goddamn. Will add.
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Old 2013-09-21, 23:04   Link #1476
Wild Goose
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I should note one thing - if this world proceeds like it did IRL, we'll actually be somewhat worse off in terms of manpower; post Glastnost, end of Cold War and Operation Desert Storm, everyone went through a mass drawdown (especially the British - the current Royal Regiment of Scotland has five battalions... which used to be five independant regiments). That, incidentally, was a source of a lot of background drama in Soldier, Soldier.

There was actually a discussion on this a few months back on Spacebattles; the general opinion of most of the serving members (including one guy who's a military intelligence Sergeant in the Canadian Army) is that if current NATO forces had to fight the 80s Warsaw Pact, they'd lose because they don't have enough numbers, and the force multipliers of fancy toys today's forces have won't be enough to patch the gap.

Also, during the mid 90s, the US and Russia were actually edging towards closer ties, and very nearly towards an alliance (you see this reflected to an extent in Tom Clancy's books, where the US-Russian relationships keep thawing, right until Executive Orders, then there's a reset in later books, because Clancy writes allegorial to the present, and less on continuity / alt universe). Then stuff happened - Spacebattles War Room would be a great place to ask those questions (this stuff was raised there before but I skimmed it over).

Also:
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Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss View Post
However, we can fix this by just having the major powers make a secret, prearranged deal, where they agree to distribute whatever tech they find after getting rid of the aliens equally among each other, and then we'd have a G-Element Cold War.
"Greetings, Commander. In response to the alien attack, the Council of Nations has activated the XCOM project..."

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Old 2013-09-22, 00:01   Link #1477
Fireminer
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So what if we terminated the Cold War? The unification of Germany, Korea and Vietnam? No Cuba Missile Crisis?

Oh, and this is something just poped from my head:

"...
"Daddy, wake up! DADDDDYYY!!!!" Three kids, one boy and two girls knocked wodden door like crazy.

"Ok! I get it! Wait there!" And here come Yuuya. A lot more older than the first time he met his wives, he now has a brown mustarch. Oh, and clading only in a boxer.

"Daddy, hurry up! Grandpa Eiji is coming!" A brown haired girl with a white ribbon on the right, said.

"Oh, that...Ok, kiddo, let's get suit up and then we will have breakfast, all right?"

"Yes! But...Who will get to use the bath first?" asked the little boy. He is like the carbon copy of Yuuya when he was in that age.

"...How about you three doing it together?"

"But...But"

"Let's go!" Her sister grabbed his left arm and litterary dragged him.

"Hey, wait for me!" The third child, a girl with silver hair and a weird northern accent linked with the poor boy right arm...

"Kid...Ah, good morning!"

"YAWN...Morning, Yuuya." Speaking of his wives...Although they are now in their 40s, Yui and Cryska still retains much of their beauty.

"Who know how could you be that wild, huh?" Yui said with a gigle.

"Yeah, and I just can't wait to do it again!" Cryska continue.

"Not today, girls! Mr.Eiji is coming!"

"Not even a kiss?"

"Shh...Here go!" Yuuya starting to give both of his wives a long, passionate kiss. But...

"EWWW!"

"Daddy do it again with Mommy and Mama!"

"Could you three just lock the door first?"

..."

Perfect ending.
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Old 2013-09-22, 01:35   Link #1478
Wild Goose
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Fireminer, when the Cold War ended, every single nation on earth went through a drawdown and reduction in force and got rid of shit.

If there is no Cold War, national armies are going to be significantly smaller than IRL.
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Old 2013-09-22, 02:55   Link #1479
Fireminer
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I know, I know! Just thinking about a scenario which BETA arrived much latter, when most of the world manpower was drawn into non-combat purpose, especially science.

(They discovered G-Element on Earth during 1970s, find out about BETA landed on Mars in 1990s, and then nuked the Moon on 2000. But they stil came back on 21-12-2012).
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Old 2013-09-22, 07:30   Link #1480
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BETA make G-Elements. How would they discover G-Elements on earth in the 1970s if BETA hadn't landed yet?
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