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Old 2012-08-01, 15:18   Link #141
vic-vic
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IMHO Argos Team very experienced in distant combat, not close combat. If they had a real ammo, instead of virtual they have in their fight with Yui, then Japanese soldier could never come back in one piece.
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Old 2012-08-01, 15:40   Link #142
gbatemper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic-vic View Post
IMHO Argos Team very experienced in distant combat, not close combat. If they had a real ammo, instead of virtual they have in their fight with Yui, then Japanese soldier could never come back in one piece.
Yeah, except the Japanese/European/African/Middle-Eastern/Chinese/Frontline Country Soldier is better in combat against the BETA. Often times, you will run out of ammo very quickly because of BETA cannon fodder spam.

It's better to get used to close combat with the BETA, if your too used to long distant fighting, you will easily lose to the BETA.
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Old 2012-08-01, 16:09   Link #143
vic-vic
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I really doubt that fighting BETA in melee is a good idea. While indeed a good BETA-fighter should know how to fight in close combat, but it's never was a main doctrine of anti-BETA combat. It's just like a marital artist fighting large bunch of thugs, he may easily dispatch them in one-on-one but he simple will eventually overrun by sheer number an ferocity. I mean, while Argos team know few tricks in melee. the shooting their main strength. Just look at their CC weapon (knives) and compare to Yui's (sword)...
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Old 2012-08-01, 17:19   Link #144
Destined_Fate
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Good idea or not a melee weapon lasts much longer than ones that require ammo because of how much BETA there are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic-vic View Post
IMHO Argos Team very experienced in distant combat, not close combat. If they had a real ammo, instead of virtual they have in their fight with Yui, then Japanese soldier could never come back in one piece.
You missed the part where they said Tarisa's specialty is melee combat which she demonstrated when she easily beat Yuuya in melee.
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Old 2012-08-01, 17:26   Link #145
gbatemper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic-vic View Post
I really doubt that fighting BETA in melee is a good idea. While indeed a good BETA-fighter should know how to fight in close combat, but it's never was a main doctrine of anti-BETA combat. It's just like a marital artist fighting large bunch of thugs, he may easily dispatch them in one-on-one but he simple will eventually overrun by sheer number an ferocity. I mean, while Argos team know few tricks in melee. the shooting their main strength. Just look at their CC weapon (knives) and compare to Yui's (sword)...
Actually, theirs a reason why U.S TSF's excel in long range fighting, because it excels in TSF vs TSF fighting due to U.S's primary agenda.

Regardless of whether it is a good idea, the majority of the frontline countries TSF focus on melee, speed, and maneuverability for a reason. Because it's effective.
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Old 2012-08-01, 18:26   Link #146
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Considering his comment "White Fang One, are you satisfied with the outcome?" It was an out of OPs training.

And WHITE FANG ONE! All who played the VN PV should recognize her call sign. Felt my heart flutter to get this omake since the sequence was removed.
What's the significance of "white fang" (without too many spoilers maybe)? Some UN unit, since it has English name...?
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Old 2012-08-01, 21:26   Link #147
Wild Goose
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That's Yui's old unit, IIRC.
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Old 2012-08-01, 22:47   Link #148
potchip
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Originally Posted by gbatemper View Post
Actually, theirs a reason why U.S TSF's excel in long range fighting, because it excels in TSF vs TSF fighting due to U.S's primary agenda.

Regardless of whether it is a good idea, the majority of the frontline countries TSF focus on melee, speed, and maneuverability for a reason. Because it's effective.
In other words, sadly we'll never get to see how awesome melee combat TSFs are because it will be impossible to animate.
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Old 2012-08-01, 23:10   Link #149
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic-vic View Post
I really doubt that fighting BETA in melee is a good idea. While indeed a good BETA-fighter should know how to fight in close combat, but it's never was a main doctrine of anti-BETA combat. It's just like a marital artist fighting large bunch of thugs, he may easily dispatch them in one-on-one but he simple will eventually overrun by sheer number an ferocity. I mean, while Argos team know few tricks in melee. the shooting their main strength. Just look at their CC weapon (knives) and compare to Yui's (sword)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
In other words, sadly we'll never get to see how awesome melee combat TSFs are because it will be impossible to animate.
You did watch Ep02 and 05 of TE didn't you? Or are you expecting something else?

And against BETA, swords are meant to supplement the guns, and can do lots of damage in the right hands.
Only America sees it differently. The rest of the world have adopted melee weapons against BETA as a doctrine.
You can check in the Mil Tac thread for more info if interested.
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Old 2012-08-02, 01:26   Link #150
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic-vic View Post
I really doubt that fighting BETA in melee is a good idea. .
It's generally acknowledged that while close combat with BETA is the last thing anyone want, it is something that WILL happen in Hive infiltration because you WILL eventually run out of ammo. Also the countries' circumstances dictate that Anti-Beta doctrine. USA have all the logistics it needed, so it can take long-range fighting as a mainstay tactic because it have the industry and logistic to back it up; also their bomb fetish that make them nuke or G-bomb the shit out of stuff before sending in the guys. Asia and Europe, and possibly Africa, don't have such luxury.

EDIT: Think of it like WWI trench warfare. Generals sent waves after waves of poor guys to their deaths because they could not find another way around it. They built such a wide network of trenches that they could NOT think about tactics such as flanking, and even if they tried, the machine guns would have taken care of the soldiers once they were in range. The breakthrough happened with the America joining the allies, and eventual release of the first tanks.

Muv-Luvverse need something similar to what the tanks did. A technological breakthrough for warfare that solves the supply problem or/and help denying the superiority given by laser class.

Last edited by Sheba; 2012-08-02 at 01:37.
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Old 2012-08-02, 07:06   Link #151
encia
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Good idea or not a melee weapon lasts much longer than ones that require ammo because of how much BETA there are.



You missed the part where they said Tarisa's specialty is melee combat which she demonstrated when she easily beat Yuuya in melee.
Yet Tarisa foolishly rushed against Yui while ignoring Yuuya’s warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
In other words, sadly we'll never get to see how awesome melee combat TSFs are because it will be impossible to animate.
It's not impossible to animate mecha melee combat.

Example, Transformer's Grimlock's melee combat vs swarm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm-l1_7y2N4
Using Unreal Engine 3 for rapid animation development example http://www.unrealengine.com/showcase...sion/lazytown/
For cheap body movement capture, use Microsoft Kinect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlRSNxryINs

Btw, MuvLuv's mecha designs are to similar Armored Core IV/V and it uses real time 3D graphics engine(on old hardware).

Last edited by encia; 2012-08-02 at 08:58.
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Old 2012-08-02, 07:09   Link #152
DoomRavager
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Their guns were kind of loaded with blanks for JIVES, and the plot needed Tarisa out of the way anyhow... in which case narrative causality takes precedence over powerlevel and tactical judgment.
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Old 2012-08-02, 07:22   Link #153
Destined_Fate
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That's because Tarisa was pissed off at Yui since she had chewed Yuuya out earlier and than arrives on the battlefield without warning. It also doesn't say much since her team jumps the gun too anyway. If anything Yui did it on purpose since it isn't that hard to see how easily Tarisa gets angry at things and that the other two treat Tarisa as a little sister.
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Old 2012-08-02, 08:14   Link #154
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
That's because Tarisa was pissed off at Yui since she had chewed Yuuya out earlier and than arrives on the battlefield without warning. It also doesn't say much since her team jumps the gun too anyway. If anything Yui did it on purpose since it isn't that hard to see how easily Tarisa gets angry at things and that the other two treat Tarisa as a little sister.
You just answered on why Chobi didn't show a professional soldier mindset. Tarisa wasn't watching her momentum which is basic 101 hand-to-hand combat.

Also,
Quote:
Yui: Yuuya Bridges. The Shiranui Type 2 operates on total different design and operations principles than an American TSF. And He's steadily mastering it in such a short time. Your talent and potential makes you an unmatched Eishi.

Last edited by encia; 2012-08-02 at 08:26.
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Old 2012-08-02, 08:49   Link #155
Destined_Fate
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The setting wasn't professional at all since they didn't expect Yui being there nor were they told. Don't forget that Yui brought real weapons to the training exercise and we already know that Tarisa has issues with her anger.

That doesn't mean he has mastered it yet thus is no match for Yui still.
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Old 2012-08-02, 08:50   Link #156
grevierr
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Do note that one of the most used training methods used by military professionals, is that if talent is spotted, RIDE THEM HARD... Never give them a chance to let up, or grow complacent. Make sure they keep guessing at your approval. The ones who last through the process would know that they have done something to be proud of. A single word of praise at the right time is much more effective than constant sugar and spice.
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Old 2012-08-02, 09:05   Link #157
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
The setting wasn't professional at all since they didn't expect Yui being there nor were they told. Don't forget that Yui brought real weapons to the training exercise and we already know that Tarisa has issues with her anger.
Training should kick in first not uncontrolled impulse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
That doesn't mean he has mastered it yet thus is no match for Yui still.
What does the quote say? What's the end result?

For Yui's time between anime episode 2 and 3, read the magna issue 1.

Spoiler for Magna issue 1:


Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Do note that one of the most used training methods used by military professionals, is that if talent is spotted, RIDE THEM HARD... Never give them a chance to let up, or grow complacent. Make sure they keep guessing at your approval. The ones who last through the process would know that they have done something to be proud of. A single word of praise at the right time is much more effective than constant sugar and spice.
Well, Yuuya's inital meeting with Yui wasn't friendly.

Last edited by encia; 2012-08-02 at 09:16.
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Old 2012-08-02, 10:03   Link #158
grevierr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encia View Post
Well, Yuuya's inital meeting with Yui wasn't friendly.
That's the whole point. Make them think they are the lowest organisms not even worth the effort of stepping on to put them out of their misery. Build them up into perfect specimens while never letting them know. Then, when they are just about to give up or kill themselves, give them one single word of acknowledgement.

No matter how good they are, never let them turn it into complacency. That way leads to arrogance, which leads to carelessness. Kick them off their perch, make them do better then they did before. Give them a challenge.

Not many commanders are willing to put in the effort to train up their best people. Most like to just use them as they are.
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Old 2012-08-03, 06:59   Link #159
encia
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Good idea or not a melee weapon lasts much longer than ones that require ammo because of how much BETA there are.

You missed the part where they said Tarisa's specialty is melee combat which she demonstrated when she easily beat Yuuya in melee.
Note that, Tarisa is using a superior F15 Active TSF hardware.

At EP2's 18:19, Tarisa made the same rush move mistake as in EP05's 18:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by EP02
Yuuya: Don't be in such a rush, Chobi



Btw, Yui was impressed after this action..

Last edited by encia; 2012-08-03 at 07:12.
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Old 2012-08-03, 10:16   Link #160
zgmf-x19a
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Originally Posted by gbatemper View Post
Actually, theirs a reason why U.S TSF's excel in long range fighting, because it excels in TSF vs TSF fighting due to U.S's primary agenda.

Regardless of whether it is a good idea, the majority of the frontline countries TSF focus on melee, speed, and maneuverability for a reason. Because it's effective.
The first reason would be ammo economy.
You don't have unlimited ammo so a blade is efficient to deal with the BETA.
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