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Yu Ominae · 2012-08-03, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I was particularly interested in the countries that either have very strict gun control laws, or that have outlawed guns entirely. We don't need to limit ourselves to Western countries, although I suppose that such comparisons would be more appropriate.

Well I did mention the Malaysia/Singapore example for starters.

Lost Cause · 2012-08-03, 19:18

"I'd argue that those who will not solely use their guns for the purpose stated in the constitution, should not be able to own guns. Former felons are already barred from being able to legally acquire guns from licensed vendors, after all..."
So your saying if your not a patriot then you should be barred from owning a gun? That's rather harsh for the average person who wants too protect themselves and couldn't care one wit about the constitution.

SaintessHeart · 2012-08-03, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

Well I did mention the Malaysia/Singapore example for starters.

Nailguns are not outlawed. And they probably weren't thought of being used against the policemen with portable air bottles used for paintball guns.

ganbaru · 2012-08-22, 17:49

Guns 'R Us
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-...printable=true
A reading than might interest some of us.

Kyuu · 2012-08-22, 18:24

Devil's Advocate: Explosives should be protected under the 2nd Amendment. They ARE weapons, right?

Ithekro · 2012-08-22, 18:36

Weapons yes, but not traditionally classified as arms (armaments) that can be kept and beared.

Lost Cause · 2012-08-22, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Guns 'R Us
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-...printable=true
A reading than might interest some of us.

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this.

Ledgem · 2012-08-22, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Guns 'R Us
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-...printable=true
A reading than might interest some of us.

That was indeed a very interesting article. What I got out of it is that these people are a bit paranoid and very fearful... although to be fair, if you're living in a remote area, the fears aren't necessarily unfounded.

Where's GundamFan0083? In the time since this thread took a rest we've had 1-2 shootings reported on national news per week.

GundamFan0083 · 2012-08-22, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem

That was indeed a very interesting article. What I got out of it is that these people are a bit paranoid and very fearful... although to be fair, if you're living in a remote area, the fears aren't necessarily unfounded.

Where's GundamFan0083? In the time since this thread took a rest we've had 1-2 shootings reported on national news per week.

Sorry about that Legem, I've been meaning to get back here but can't right now.
My publisher wants my 2nd novel (draft) sent to the editor by the end of September and I've got to work on it every night to make it (4-5 pages per night mandatory).

When I get some free time I will jump back into the fray...promise.

Ledgem · 2012-08-22, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Sorry about that Legem, I've been meaning to get back here but can't right now.
My publisher wants my 2nd novel (draft) sent to the editor by the end of September and I've got to work on it every night to make it (4-5 pages per night mandatory).

When I get some free time I will jump back into the fray...promise.

There's not much fray to be had without you, it seems

Take your time, and good luck with meeting your deadline!

DonQuigleone · 2012-08-23, 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Sorry about that Legem, I've been meaning to get back here but can't right now.
My publisher wants my 2nd novel (draft) sent to the editor by the end of September and I've got to work on it every night to make it (4-5 pages per night mandatory).

When I get some free time I will jump back into the fray...promise.

Good luck!

Look forward to continuing the debate

Lost Cause · 2012-08-23, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem

That was indeed a very interesting article. What I got out of it is that these people are a bit paranoid and very fearful... although to be fair, if you're living in a remote area, the fears aren't necessarily unfounded.

Where's GundamFan0083? In the time since this thread took a rest we've had 1-2 shootings reported on national news per week.

Not just rural areas. It seems the city of Chicago is having a lot of killings lately, according to the news they're being attributed to gangs and Mexican drug cartel activity. Strange seeing how Chicago has a lot of anti-gun laws.

Ledgem · 2012-08-23, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

Not just rural areas. It seems the city of Chicago is having a lot of killings lately, according to the news they're being attributed to gangs and Mexican drug cartel activity. Strange seeing how Chicago has a lot of anti-gun laws.

Not strange considering that guns can be purchased very easily from just about anywhere else in America.

The typical "conservative" argument against the gun laws is that criminals will still have guns. I presume that's the point that you're working toward, as well. "Look, Chicago has strict anti-gun laws, but there's still a lot of gun violence. Therefore the laws don't work."

It ignores the availability of guns. I would not argue that the laws by themselves will stop anyone from owning or acquiring guns. However, if the laws shut down gun stores, you will see a reduction in guns as a result. If there's a reduction in guns, it goes to reason that there will be less gun violence.

DonQuigleone · 2012-08-23, 19:37

When I read the views of those firmly in favour of the proliferation of guns, I see people firmly being controlled by their fear. It's a depressing way to live.

kyp275 · 2012-08-23, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

When I read the views of those firmly in favour of the proliferation of guns, I see people firmly being controlled by their fear. It's a depressing way to live.

I'm firmly in favor of having the OPTION of being able to defend myself with a firearm should the need arise, and I certainly am not controlled by nor live in fear

DonQuigleone · 2012-08-23, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyp275

I'm firmly in favor of having the OPTION of being able to defend myself with a firearm should the need arise, and I certainly am not controlled by nor live in fear

Fear makes you feel you need to have the option.

Ithekro · 2012-08-23, 20:23

Sometimes it isn't fear. Sometimes it is tradition. Sometimes it is the desired for a freedom enjoyed by generations past.

The fear would be of someone taking away a freedom. Any freedom, that cost men their lives to have in the first place.

Such is the American mindset. Our freedom was not free, and we remind ourselves of that every year. At least three times a year in fact. Memorial Day, Independance Day, and Veteran's Day. Sometimes we also remind ourselves of it on September 11th and December 7th.

Some take freedom seriously to the point when taking away a freedom is equated to destroying what the country believes in. Thus you get the more diehard conservatives that are not only against gun control but also the presented National health care reform, based on the idea that it will remove a freedom...the freedom to not take part if one choices or does not have the means to take part. Some mentally take the process slightly farther and think it will be the end of the Nation ina domino effect as one freedom after another gets taken away.

These tend to see the Second Ammendment as defending the First Ammendment and together defending all the remaining ammendements and the Constitution.

kyp275 · 2012-08-23, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Fear makes you feel you need to have the option.

nope, and I'd prefer you not telling me how and why I feel the way I do :P

Lost Cause · 2012-08-24, 11:28

"It ignores the availability of guns. I would not argue that the laws by themselves will stop anyone from owning or acquiring guns. However, if the laws shut down gun stores, you will see a reduction in guns as a result. If there's a reduction in guns, it goes to reason that there will be less gun violence."

And yet there would still be firearms available through black markets or other illegal means. Just because you close the gun store, doesn't mean you can't get a gun. The hardcore criminals could hit VFW posts, licensed collectors and go to another state as you said. All of which is a crime in and of itself.
And if the killings in Chicago are a result of a Mexican drug cartel, well they get there guns from either other countries or their own.
As for as the fear thing goes, I don't buy into it! Americans (myself included) just don't like Big Brother telling us what to do, what to eat, what to wear, or how to act! As long as we're lawful in our activities and not treading on somebody else's liberties then we should be allowed to do "out own thing"!

Vexx · 2012-08-24, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

When I read the views of those firmly in favour of the proliferation of guns, I see people firmly being controlled by their fear. It's a depressing way to live.

Then you're misinterpreting their motives, especially if you're using sweeping generalizations like that.

2012-08-22, 17:49	Link #184
ganbaru books-eater youkai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity	Guns 'R Us http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-...printable=true A reading than might interest some of us. __________________

2012-08-22, 18:24	Link #185
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 34	Devil's Advocate: Explosives should be protected under the 2nd Amendment. They ARE weapons, right? __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2012-08-22, 18:36	Link #186
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	Weapons yes, but not traditionally classified as arms (armaments) that can be kept and beared. __________________

2012-08-23, 20:23	Link #197
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	Sometimes it isn't fear. Sometimes it is tradition. Sometimes it is the desired for a freedom enjoyed by generations past. The fear would be of someone taking away a freedom. Any freedom, that cost men their lives to have in the first place. Such is the American mindset. Our freedom was not free, and we remind ourselves of that every year. At least three times a year in fact. Memorial Day, Independance Day, and Veteran's Day. Sometimes we also remind ourselves of it on September 11th and December 7th. Some take freedom seriously to the point when taking away a freedom is equated to destroying what the country believes in. Thus you get the more diehard conservatives that are not only against gun control but also the presented National health care reform, based on the idea that it will remove a freedom...the freedom to not take part if one choices or does not have the means to take part. Some mentally take the process slightly farther and think it will be the end of the Nation ina domino effect as one freedom after another gets taken away. These tend to see the Second Ammendment as defending the First Ammendment and together defending all the remaining ammendements and the Constitution. __________________

2012-08-03, 19:18	Link #182
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 35	"I'd argue that those who will not solely use their guns for the purpose stated in the constitution, should not be able to own guns. Former felons are already barred from being able to legally acquire guns from licensed vendors, after all..." So your saying if your not a patriot then you should be barred from owning a gun? That's rather harsh for the average person who wants too protect themselves and couldn't care one wit about the constitution.

2012-08-23, 19:37	Link #194
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 24	When I read the views of those firmly in favour of the proliferation of guns, I see people firmly being controlled by their fear. It's a depressing way to live.

2012-08-24, 11:28	Link #199
Lost Cause Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia Age: 35	"It ignores the availability of guns. I would not argue that the laws by themselves will stop anyone from owning or acquiring guns. However, if the laws shut down gun stores, you will see a reduction in guns as a result. If there's a reduction in guns, it goes to reason that there will be less gun violence." And yet there would still be firearms available through black markets or other illegal means. Just because you close the gun store, doesn't mean you can't get a gun. The hardcore criminals could hit VFW posts, licensed collectors and go to another state as you said. All of which is a crime in and of itself. And if the killings in Chicago are a result of a Mexican drug cartel, well they get there guns from either other countries or their own. As for as the fear thing goes, I don't buy into it! Americans (myself included) just don't like Big Brother telling us what to do, what to eat, what to wear, or how to act! As long as we're lawful in our activities and not treading on somebody else's liberties then we should be allowed to do "out own thing"!