London Olympics, Summer Games 2012

[MakubeX2]

To understand why poor rural Chinese parents see sports as as a get-rich-quick scheme, you have to understand Li Ning who found his own International Company or even Liu Xiang. And of course Yao Ming.

Because of them, every poor chinese peasant parents dream and aspire their children to be the next in line for glory.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

To understand why poor rural Chinese parents see sports as as a get-rich-quick scheme, you have to understand Lin Ning who found his own International Company or even Liu Xiang. And of course Yao Ming.

Because of them, every poor chinese peasant parents dream and aspire their children to be the next in line for glory.

it is no different then poor inner city boys who see football and basketball as a their ticket out of the ghettos.

[Dhomochevsky]

The motivation for both the parents and the countries that follow this route is clear. It's not only China. Many countries have acted in the same way. Our old communist half, the DDR had a similar program going for example. They used more drugs and less torture, but the ends are the same.

In all of these cases, the value of the actual achievements in sports is lowered.
At least that's how the western world sees this. Why... see my post earlier.
And that's counterproductive to the goals of the countries. But they don't seem to get that. Ever.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

it is no different then poor inner city boys who see football and basketball as a their ticket out of the ghettos.

It's a huge difference.
The difference is free will.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

It's a huge difference.
The difference is free will.

The chinese parents sends in their children to train willingly and have the options to withdraw and quit the kids anytime. The chinese government just expilots this aspect and choose the best out of the cohort and rewards those who stays and meet the expectations.

So who's to blame ?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

It's a huge difference.
The difference is free will.

the parents could withdrawal their kids anytime, some parent even help out there. The government are not holding those kids against the parents wishes.

[Dhomochevsky]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

The chinese parents sends in their children to train willingly and have the options to withdraw and quit the kids anytime. The chinese government just expilots this aspect and choose the best out of the cohort and rewards those who stays and meet the expectations.

So who's to blame ?

It does not matter who forces these children to train. The point is, that they are forced. That's the problem here. It means they aren't athletes.

Look, that's what I mean with 'they don't get it'.

It's like you're trying to play monopoly, but you have this one guy in your round, who just grabs all the play money in the bank and runs off with it.
And he does not get why the other players think he's a jerk and why they aren't impressed with the huge amount of playmoney he has now.

China is kind of that clueless when it comes to sports, it seems.
They understood the goal (get all the medals) but they did not understand the whole point of it.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

the parents could withdrawal their kids anytime, some parent even help out there. The government are not holding those kids against the parents wishes.

Wait, since when was parent's will= kid's will?

Anyway epic day for Korea, three gold medals (shooting, judo, and fencing!), men football to knockout stage, and women volleyball beating Brazil. Though the disqualification ruined the day slightly, great day nonetheless.

Oh and Kim Ji Yeon

Spoiler:

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

It does not matter who forces these children to train. The point is, that they are forced. That's the problem here. It means they aren't athletes.

Look, that's what I mean with 'they don't get it'.

It's like you're trying to play monopoly, but you have this one guy in your round, who just grabs all the play money in the bank and runs off.
And he does not get why the other players think he's a jerk and why they aren't impressed with the huge amount of playmoney he has now.

China is kind of that clueless when it comes to sports, it seems.
They understood the goal (get all the medals) but they did not understand the whole point of it.

sorry if i am missing a point but i think you are rasing 2 seperate points.

1. child abuse - i am with you on this one as i think it is wrong of the parents to force their kids like this. But i am not in their shoes.

2. about China trying to hog the medals. The US in the 90s with collaspe of the Soviet Union and before the rise of China would routinely have almost double the number of medals of #2 in the medal counts and currently still have the most medals of any country. China isn't the first country to try to win the most medals and won't be the last.

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Wait, since when was parent's will= kid's will?

2000 yrs ago with Confucianism.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

China is kind of that clueless when it comes to sports, it seems.
They understood the goal (get all the medals) but they did not understand the whole point of it.

And there you have it. It's not about the medals or national prestige. It's about fame, pride and most importantly, wealth. It's human nature. The parents only see "what might come" and did not consider "what happens if."

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

2000 yrs ago with Confucianism.

That's the difference between Eastern and Western philosophy.

The Eastern way is like "I give birth to you, feed and clothed you, therefore All Your Base Are Belong To Us"

[DonQuigleone]

Boris Johnson is a bit crazy, and prone to gaffes, but he generally is pretty smart and worldly. He made this pretty good documentary which you wouldn't expect from someone from the conservative party.

EDIT: It seems I took too long to post...

[Dhomochevsky]

sorry if i am missing a point but i think you are rasing 2 seperate points.

No, it's really just one point:

Athletes are competing out of their own free will.

Currently, that is only a suspicion. The chinese athletes we see, are motivated young people, who say they want to win and that they are willing to train hard for that. This is respected. It's what an athlete should be.

But if that direct link to these tortured children is ever made, if someone can prove that the same athlete we see competing today, was once one of these children, this will end.
It means that their resolve only came, after they were forced into it. It will cast doubt on the truth of what they are saying.
It will cheapen all their achievements, even in retrospect.
Actually it has already begun, with precisely articles like the one linked above.

This can't be the China's goal, yet they are steering right at it. That's why I think they really don't understand that.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

But if that direct link to these tortured children is ever made, if someone can prove that the same athlete we see competing today, was once one of these children, this will end.
It means that their resolve only came, after they were forced into it. It will cast doubt on the truth of what they are saying.
It will cheapen all their achievements, even in retrospect.
Actually it has already begun, with precisely articles like the one linked above.

Who cares ? Those Chinese medalists themselves most certainly don't and they will give shit about what other thinks. With the rewards the government have in store them, they are set up for life. Just as long as they are prudent about it.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

But if that direct link to these tortured children is ever made, if someone can prove that the same athlete we see competing today, was once one of these children, this will end.
It means that their resolve only came, after they were forced into it. It will cast doubt on the truth of what they are saying.
It will cheapen all their achievements, even in retrospect.
Actually it has already begun, with precisely articles like the one linked above.

you don't have to go look for a link. it is pretty much out in the open in China. Unless one of the Chinese athlete is form a rich family and have private coaches, all of them came out form similar training academies in that article.

[DonQuigleone]

To be fair, Asian parents ruthlessly pushing their kids to success is not unique to sports and athletics. You get a similiar thing in education too, while forcing your kids to study 6 hours a day (in addition to school) isn't as physically demanding as what happens at those sport camps, it's just as (if not more so) mentally demanding and damaging.

Take any field of human endeavor and you'll find Asian parents pushing their kids forward with no regard to the child's natural talents or inclinations.

And just to be even handed, this happens plenty in the western world too, but it does seem more acute in China, Korea and Japan.

Personally, I think you can have your cake and eat it, kids can get good at things while not giving absurd amounts of time to it and, amazingly, enjoying it at the same time too...

[Vexx]

There's some quantity of practice necessary (one researcher pegs it as the "10000 hr rule") but quality is what many parents (regardless of culture) just totally miss the boat on. No time for random creativity comes pretty close to brain damage (wiring).

On a random note, I thought I'd glance at the archery finals on nbcolympics.com. Lo and behold they won't permit me to see them unless I'm subscribed to an approved list of cable or dish television providers. Watching broadcast (antenna) NBC doesn't count.

Ah, well.... I guess I'll go play a video game and they won't get to show me any of their precious commercials.

Tomorrow I'll browse some less moronic part of the Internet.

[solomon]

I cannot resist succumbing to the peacock in order to watch Judo, Fencing and other cool "niche" sports i am afraid.

BBC does good coverage (much less cheesy than US) but still has it's biases (focusing on Team GB stuff mainly on BBC One).

Apparently, the CBC got rights to Rio and many are cheering up north but I can only imagine how much cherry picking theyd have to do with one channel, at least the Rogers consortium is multi-channel.

Anyways, am I the only one tired of all the swimming? BRING ON THE GOD'DANG ATHLETICS ALREADY!!!

[Tom Bombadil]

This is probably the most ironical thing about this Olympics:

For the 2012 Olympics, the British made some particular effort to promote their heroes back in 1948. It turns out they lost deliberatedly to get an advantage back then.

London 2012 Olympics: Meet the odd couple who claimed Olympic gold at the 1948 Games

Curiously, the course for their races at Henley was technically 200 metres short, but the fact that it went against the stream was deemed to make up the difference. Burnell, ever calculating, decided early upon an audacious but highly risky route to a gold medal, where the British double would deliberately lose their heat against the French to avoid meeting Denmark, their main rivals, in the semi-final. The ensuing repechage provided an extra race to reach competitive sharpness and smoothed their progress to a final where, sure enough, they encountered the Danes.

[Kyuu]

Having access to the streams ... I feel overwhelmed by so much sport. So great. But I heard BBC does far even more than NBC.

[GenjiChan]

Update on the Medal Score/Rank.

[Kyuu]

And Day 6 already starting.

Man. These Archery ladies. You don't ever want to mess with them. Else, they'd shoot you.