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Old 2013-05-08, 01:28   Link #601
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
..plus her transition from "bad" sister to siscon is too quick....
I think that was the whole point, though -- that's "the gag". The whole thing was like "oh there must be a deep reason!" and then "... that's it? "

Like I said, I guess you sort of have to share their sense of humour.
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:33   Link #602
MogMoogle1
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Guess people don't like to be trolled these days... I found it to be within the boundaries of what this series is about. With an OP/ED like that and how ridiculous these episodes have been, I think I'd be pretty bothered if they went super cereal on us.
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:45   Link #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think that was the whole point, though -- that's "the gag". The whole thing was like "oh there must be a deep reason!" and then "... that's it? "

Like I said, I guess you sort of have to share their sense of humour.
But still it's so fast....they should have add an episode in between I like comedy but I don't this one didn't hit me....

Maybe its "moe" again....
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:46   Link #604
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
But still it's so fast....they should add another episode in between...
Nobody can ask for extra time when a car's about to knock you down. It happened, one way or another, so we can only complain and carry on watching (or drop the series)
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:48   Link #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh_Ping View Post
Nobody can ask for extra time when a car's about to knock you down. It happened, one way or another, so we can only complain and carry on watching (or drop the series)
I'm just saying....
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:50   Link #606
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I'm just saying....
I know. Even after knowing about it, it just doesn't register with me either.

I think we slowed down with the moe pictures here
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:56   Link #607
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I guess, my main issue wasn't about the drama as I have a preset dislike for it, but more because I just didn't care about Tsukiko's sister - at all -. So my "primitive" thought was like "Oh look, annoying character just got more annoying". It's my ususal example of that it may make perfectly sense in-verse/within the genre, but it's simply not my preference.
That is from a "I comment what I see"-point of view, i. e. I wouldn't even notice hints or meta infos to begin with.
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:59   Link #608
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Originally Posted by Mahou View Post
I guess, my main issue wasn't about the drama as I have a preset dislike for it, but more because I just didn't care about Tsukiko's sister - at all -. So my "primitive" thought was like "Oh look, annoying character just got more annoying". It's my ususal example of that it may make perfectly sense in-verse/within the genre, but it's simply not my preference.
That is from a "I comment what I see"-point of view, i. e. I wouldn't even notice hints or meta infos to begin with.
Agree, she's taking too much screen time.... If she doesn't want to join the harem.. She should move away.. Reminds me of another annoying in He is my Master...
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:07   Link #609
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think it actually is the subject matter that is the more nonsensical. I mean, the way the whole thing was presented in the anime was pretty logical for what they were trying to do: keep things pretty serious (causing misunderstandings) and then resolve the whole thing with an incredibly facepalm-worthy gag. So, although I haven't read the novels or the manga, I don't know that the essential problem is in the "presentation" or that the writer "fucked up" (the show's had the same writer for all four episodes so far, who also did the story planning), it's the fact that the story set-up a serious problem and resolved it in a completely nonsensical way (on purpose). If you really want to maintain that it's a presentation problem, I'd really need to get a better understanding of how exactly you make the twist better when the whole point of it in the first place was a massive painful facepalm (the effects of which are being felt).

Now personally I thought the resolution was quite funny, and it sort of sets the tone for the characters going forward, but I can see why some don't like it so much. If they thought this was going to be a serious issue with a serious resolution, the episode basically "trolled them" with its serious mood and banal plot twist (that was, however, foreshadowed a little bit). I'm okay with this.
Don't get me wrong, that "subject matter"/resolution was certainly meant to be a "troll", i.e. out of left field and hilarious. However, the point is that pretty much the entire story is that way so it'd be a mistake to attribute a contrast between "nonsensical comedy" and "seriousness". Steel King's intentions were both far from the only 'nonsensical' thing in that scene, nor the first time we have seen Steel King acting nonsensical--however, it is only the anime's presentation which would lead people into expecting something emotionally heavy or "serious". It's completely down to the anime's pacing if people ever managed to forget that the first half of the episode, or this anime in general, was a comedy.

The real problem is that the anime's breakneck treatment of the plot muddled the characterization of not only Steel King, but Yokodera and Tsukiko. Without mentioning the siscon resolution scene, I felt the entire episode treated all three characters badly. So the Steel King's sis-con came out of nowhere? Well, how about where the fuck Yokodera's sis-con came from? Not to mention, the completely questionable characterization which arises from Tsukiko's complete non-reaction to being seen naked in the store's public dressing room.

The point is, this series, Henneko, is a comedy--but not a nonsensical one. Just as for any other aspect of a good story, appreciating the characterization is an important aspect of the humour as well. I won't presume to speak for other anime or manga viewer's impressions but I personally felt that this episode's treatment of it was incredibly shitty.
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:10   Link #610
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moe pics eh.
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:22   Link #611
Seitsuki
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Agree, she's taking too much screen time.... If she doesn't want to join the harem.. She should move away.. Reminds me of another annoying in He is my Master...
Spoiler for .......rant:
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:29   Link #612
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Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Spoiler for .......rant:
Hey, not all harem are bad.... Its ok to start as a harem... the bad thing is when until the end the very end the MC will not choose the best girl among the girls leaving a hanging ending which is a crime!

Not all harems are stupid... Don't generalized.. its not justifiable IMHO..
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:30   Link #613
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
it is only the anime's presentation which would lead people into expecting something emotionally heavy or "serious". It's completely down to the anime's pacing if people ever managed to forget that the first half of the episode, or this anime in general, was a comedy.
But I still think that is the very intention of the joke: to mislead the viewer into expecting something heavy and then fool them. So is that really a "flaw"? Perhaps the way the chapters were structured in the manga (or the pace at which you were reading it), it didn't seem so serious to you, but the anime chose to ham it up big time to really put a point on the absurdity of the resolution.

Again, I can see why some people wouldn't like it (and people preferring novels or manga to anime happens all the time), but I still think this isn't really something they did "wrong" exactly. It's just a really, really dry sense of humour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Well, how about where the fuck Yokodera's sis-con came from?
I think this too is the same sort of sense of humour on display. He got his fašade back and he's the type to say things on the spur of the moment and also miss the point spectacularly in the process. It's not like he was going to say that he loved her at this point in the story. They already did foreshadow quite clearly that he considered her the most precious person to him at that time, but they didn't precise that. So again, a bit of misdirection, leading people to expect "an early confession?!" and then "Imouto!"... and /facefault. It's a one-two combo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Not to mention, the completely questionable characterization which arises from Tsukiko's complete non-reaction to being seen naked in the store's public dressing room.
I guess I'm more vague on this one. Is that really inconsistent with her character so far? She has taken his perverted behaviour in stride a number of times before, and she can't show her anger or embarrassment on her face. At best I suppose we were missing another dry line of "you are an inescapably, inexcusably, inextricably hopeless pervert, aren't you, Senpai"? I guess maybe I could be convinced here, but not too sure what was off or questionable about her reaction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The point is, this series, Henneko, is a comedy--but not a nonsensical one.
Seemed pretty nonsensical from the get-go to me, but this is only coming from the anime.



Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Are you fucking serious? Screw the harem. Harems are the mortal enemy of intelligent story telling. The bane of good plot development. [...]
...It's inescapably intended as comedy. It's there because it can make some people laugh and put a smile on their face with the silliness of it all. But, if you don't think it's funny, then well yeah -- it's like watching a never-ending unfunny joke, and that's a pretty big waste of time...
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Old 2013-05-08, 03:24   Link #614
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Don't get me wrong, that "subject matter"/resolution was certainly meant to be a "troll", i.e. out of left field and hilarious. However, the point is that pretty much the entire story is that way so it'd be a mistake to attribute a contrast between "nonsensical comedy" and "seriousness". Steel King's intentions were both far from the only 'nonsensical' thing in that scene, nor the first time we have seen Steel King acting nonsensical--however, it is only the anime's presentation which would lead people into expecting something emotionally heavy or "serious". It's completely down to the anime's pacing if people ever managed to forget that the first half of the episode, or this anime in general, was a comedy.
I don't know, Sol. The disconnect I felt from this episode is because, barring the Steel King, the other characters act in a fairly reasonable way. Sure, each one has a certain quirk, as is typical of comedies, but still within the boundary of believability. In contrast, Tsukushi's character is simply out of this world.

Azusa's story was much more compelling. Sure, the bullying incident was resolved quite easily, and the tanned girls didn't actually hate Azusa, but I felt that her character was treated with the due respect.
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Old 2013-05-08, 04:13   Link #615
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But I still think that is the very intention of the joke: to mislead the viewer into expecting something heavy and then fool them. So is that really a "flaw"? Perhaps the way the chapters were structured in the manga (or the pace at which you were reading it), it didn't seem so serious to you, but the anime chose to ham it up big time to really put a point on the absurdity of the resolution.

Again, I can see why some people wouldn't like it (and people preferring novels or manga to anime happens all the time), but I still think this isn't really something they did "wrong" exactly. It's just a really, really dry sense of humour.
Quote:
I think this too is the same sort of sense of humour on display. He got his fašade back and he's the type to say things on the spur of the moment and also miss the point spectacularly in the process. It's not like he was going to say that he loved her at this point in the story. They already did foreshadow quite clearly that he considered her the most precious person to him at that time, but they didn't precise that. So again, a bit of misdirection, leading people to expect "an early confession?!" and then "Imouto!"... and /facefault. It's a one-two combo.
I don't know if you could call it "dry" humour but certainly, the humour of moments like those is built by momentarily, frivolously, building up the audience's expectations only to divert them in some other direction. But diverting or exceeding your audience's expectations is different from betraying them.
Spoiler for Comparison to the manga:


Quote:
I guess I'm more vague on this one. Is that really inconsistent with her character so far? She has taken his perverted behaviour in stride a number of times before, and she can't show her anger or embarrassment on her face. At best I suppose we were missing another dry line of "you are an inescapably, inexcusably, inextricably hopeless pervert, aren't you, Senpai"? I guess maybe I could be convinced here, but not too sure what was off or questionable about her reaction.
My actual concern with this was actually also pretty vague/subtle, it was moreso something I threw in from amongst other examples. The main point is that that scene overall really strongly implies that Tsukiko is trying to chase after Yokodera's attention. My impression of Tsukiko from the manga overall is much more preoccupied and introspective.

Quote:
Edit:...It's inescapably intended as comedy. It's there because it can make some people laugh and put a smile on their face with the silliness of it all. But, if you don't think it's funny, then well yeah -- it's like watching a never-ending unfunny joke, and that's a pretty big waste of time...
Well, one of the points I was trying to make with the emphasis on character in this series rather than 'nonsense' is that this series' humour (or rather, development, I guess) isn't simply repetitive. There is genuine character growth and interesting development, the series just manages to keep a very light tone throughout all of it. I have a pretty overwhelming loathing for harems as well, it takes a certain degree of quality for me to even consider them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
I don't know, Sol. The disconnect I felt from this episode is because, barring the Steel King, the other characters act in a fairly reasonable way. Sure, each one has a certain quirk, as is typical of comedies, but still within the boundary of believability. In contrast, Tsukushi's character is simply out of this world.

Azusa's story was much more compelling. Sure, the bullying incident was resolved quite easily, and the tanned girls didn't actually hate Azusa, but I felt that her character was treated with the due respect.
This is just my opinion, and you can read my other posts for a bit more context, but I'd put it down to the fact that the anime failed to convey Yokodera's equal outrageousness in terms of behaviour towards Tsukiko by comparison to the Steel King, as well as the much shortened time to get used to Steel King's character. Overall, Tsukushi is super dense, yes, but not unbelievable or beyond the realm of likeability/respectability. You can take the many early anticipatory remarks about her from other members in this thread as evidence; most manga readers really do like the Steel King, or at least find her hilarious. I overall would very much hesitate to say it's a difference in taste between the different audiences, but rather one of execution.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-08 at 05:02. Reason: merged double-post
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Old 2013-05-08, 05:21   Link #616
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I don't know if you could call it "dry" humour but certainly, the humour of moments like those is built by momentarily, frivolously, building up the audience's expectations only to divert them in some other direction. But diverting or exceeding your audience's expectations is different from betraying them.
Spoiler for Comparison to the manga:
But basically this is just you saying "I liked the way the manga did it better" (or that the manga was funnier), which is totally fine but that doesn't mean the anime is doing it "wrong", it's just telling the same joke in a different way.

Spoiler for Comparison to what was described of the manga:

Anyway, I definitely get that the sense of comedic timing/delivery the anime employed didn't work for you the way the manga did in the same scene.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-08 at 15:37. Reason: fix typo... -_-;
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Old 2013-05-08, 06:49   Link #617
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I personally found the anime to be quite funny when it did the reveal. It was basically trying to pull a 'Family Guy', where a lot of the jokes pretty much comes out of nowhere and doesn't make sense in the slightest. (ex. Nostalgic childhood memories with "Mr. Bike"? Nope, it's not Peter riding it, but playing house with it. XD)

And this discussion has lead me to read the manga, which while more elaborate, I didn't find myself chuckling. But I guess that is to be expected BECAUSE the suprise impact of the joke is gone.
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Old 2013-05-08, 10:47   Link #618
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The "problem" here is that Tsukushi is extremely clingy and gullible, beyond the usual standards we're used to.
The signs were all there for how extremely flaky she was now that I look back on it. Remember in episode 1 when Yokodera was bluntly using Track daily to watch the girls swim team right in the middle of practice? Yet somehow she took that as diligence and tried to make him Captain despite the fact he wasn't even hiding it! That's not a normal type of "dense".

That said, I never took the dramatic moments in show to seriously since comedy seemed to be main vehicle for the show. The drama here always has been pretty light for all intent purposes anyway a'la Family Guy like Dragoon Kain said.
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Old 2013-05-08, 16:46   Link #619
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That makes me so want to warm up a freezing Tsukiko in the South Pole.
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Old 2013-05-09, 00:25   Link #620
s07195
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'You're only resorting to violence because you can't win with reason!'

Nah, Yokodera, she's resorting to violence because you gave her a letter of challenge.

The sudden shift in Tsukushi's attitude got me good, I have to say. I was facepalming hard while grinning for those 10 minutes.

What doesn't make sense in the episode is the sudden event at the end of the episode happening after a timeskip. I'm guessing that there's more to the stony cat other than the 'granting wishes' thing?
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