AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-04-07, 23:59   Link #461
Shinova
ANGRY LOLI POWER
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
The story and tone are kind of a mess though. It tries to go for a lot of different things, ie, sci-fi, school-life, rom-com, action, but aside from the action it really doesn't do any of the other things particularly well.
I know what you're talking about, but you have to try to avoid attempting to peg this show into a genre. Most anime have a story to tell and they will borrow whatever specific elements from various genres as needed to tell that story. It's not like western media where they'll embed themselves into a single genre, try to adopt its tropes as faithfully as possible, and stick with one thing. It's hard to identify anime by genre because they can be a lot of things at once.

Date A Live is Date A Live. That's its genre, in a sense.
__________________
THAT'S MY ONII-CHAAAAAAAANN!!!!!!!
Shinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 00:31   Link #462
garbage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
2nd episodes better, well I enjoyed it a lot more. Tohka starting to really shine, so now I'm torn between Tohka & Origami they're both hilarious in ep2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinova View Post
_ snip
true this, people seem to think Genre tagging, or even target demographics tag (ie.shojo, shonen, seinen etc) are some kind absolute rule and woe to those who break their preconceived laws . I always try to look into created works as it's own and not be influenced by these Tags. It's limiting, Your putting your thinking in a cage.

To be fair though this doesn't happen only in anime but almost all art artworks. You always hear bands/singer bewailing how people tag them as such and such. (ie emo, ganster rap, etc), and they deny it to high heavens.

Also why i hate tvtropes, at first I thought oh ok interesting.but then it degenerated into ridiculous levels, and now people are referring to those "tropes" as if it's some kind of universal truth. and using it in arguments and such. really funny.
__________________
garbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 00:39   Link #463
Om Nerabdator
~Maru~
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 29
well ill be damn that was a great ep, now this is my fav this season, except maybe gargantua.

The first ep of this was ok, but this one was really entertaining especially tohka ^^
__________________
Om Nerabdator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 01:38   Link #464
novalysis
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Shidou should have just ignored the crew and A.I. Their suggestions were entertaining, but useless.

I wonder when would Shidou explain to Tohka that the main reason why people are attacking her is because of the property damage her manifestation inflicts.... well, if she can conceive of the notion of property damage.
novalysis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 01:47   Link #465
Polarpew
Bash'a no falor talah
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York USA
Age: 23
Send a message via AIM to Polarpew
Opening song was EXTREMELY catchy up until the first lyrics line -.-
anyways great second episode, gonna enjoy where this is going seeing how its not a subpar adaptation of a typical harem light novel
__________________
Epicness
Polarpew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 02:13   Link #466
Marcus H.
Concealed Chuunibyou
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
"Mahal kita." Welp. Looks like we have a rather interesting character amongst the Analysis Team.
__________________
Marcus' Handpicked!
Spring 2014: No Game No Life, Date A Live II, Magica Wars, Fairy Tail and Isshukan Friends.
Winter 2013/2014 Catch Up: Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! Ren, Sakura Trick and Little Busters! EX.
Log Horizon, Strike the Blood and Tokyo Ravens from Fall 2013.


Contact me on Wikia, MyAnimeList and Hummingbird.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 36. Completed: 192. Plan to watch: 31.

Marcus H. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 02:49   Link #467
Xion Valkyrie
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinova View Post
I know what you're talking about, but you have to try to avoid attempting to peg this show into a genre. Most anime have a story to tell and they will borrow whatever specific elements from various genres as needed to tell that story. It's not like western media where they'll embed themselves into a single genre, try to adopt its tropes as faithfully as possible, and stick with one thing. It's hard to identify anime by genre because they can be a lot of things at once.

Date A Live is Date A Live. That's its genre, in a sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post

true this, people seem to think Genre tagging, or even target demographics tag (ie.shojo, shonen, seinen etc) are some kind absolute rule and woe to those who break their preconceived laws . I always try to look into created works as it's own and not be influenced by these Tags. It's limiting, Your putting your thinking in a cage.

To be fair though this doesn't happen only in anime but almost all art artworks. You always hear bands/singer bewailing how people tag them as such and such. (ie emo, ganster rap, etc), and they deny it to high heavens.

Also why i hate tvtropes, at first I thought oh ok interesting.but then it degenerated into ridiculous levels, and now people are referring to those "tropes" as if it's some kind of universal truth. and using it in arguments and such. really funny.
I'm not saying it's a mess because it's a mish-mash of different genres. It's a mess because it takes all those elements and puts them together in a haphazard manner in which the different elements actually diminish each other's impact. The elements it borrows are not really that interesting either, at least from the way episode one set them up. It feels like it's a bunch of different shows duct taped together.

Like someone said earlier, they're doing heavy compression on the first first volume so I'm guessing a lot of the conflicting elements come from the fact that the pacing is completely off. I feel like the manga did things a lot better in that regard.
Xion Valkyrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 02:52   Link #468
TheEroKing
Version 2
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mumbai, India
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to TheEroKing
Analysis team? More like The Forever Alone fanclub It was funny when suddenly there were options and they started voting on which seemed the best to choose
Certainly enjoyed this more than the first one and looking forward to next week
__________________
Morikawa Yuki & Ogata Rina from White Album
TheEroKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 05:53   Link #469
Shinova
ANGRY LOLI POWER
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
I'm not saying it's a mess because it's a mish-mash of different genres. It's a mess because it takes all those elements and puts them together in a haphazard manner in which the different elements actually diminish each other's impact. The elements it borrows are not really that interesting either, at least from the way episode one set them up. It feels like it's a bunch of different shows duct taped together.

Like someone said earlier, they're doing heavy compression on the first first volume so I'm guessing a lot of the conflicting elements come from the fact that the pacing is completely off. I feel like the manga did things a lot better in that regard.
If you're having a problem with HOW the show has borrowed from different genres and put them together, then that's a different story. I think one needs a good deal of visual novel experience to really appreciate Date A Live. If you have that, then various things about the story start to sink in. Things like how Shidou has to date and conquer girls to save the world, and how the organization treats dating like it's a battle with analysis of the opponent and making judgements. The whole story's a quirky bend on the entire romance galge scene, and most of the audience here likely lacks that experience. It's like watching a movie about poker and you don't know a thing about the game. You're missing out on a large portion of what would make such a movie enjoyable.

As for the adaptation from novel to anime, I think they're doing a pretty good job for the most part. It's like transliteration vs translation. If you copied literally from one format to another you end up with a terrible output.

Remember, a light novel or a manga you can go back a page or take as long as you want to read a paragraph. Anime doesn't work that way. Once a scene has passed, it's done and you can't go back to watch it again (if watched on a TV broadcast that just goes from beginning to end like intended). If a novel is wordy the reader can take their time or read the rest another time. An anime is meant to be watched in a single sitting, and every scene is meant to be viewed in a continuous linear progression from beginning to end. If you stop mid-way and come back to it another day the story and emotional impact from the earlier parts of the episode have waned and aren't as present in the viewer's mind as the creators would've intended. Thus, any scene that feels weird quickly impacts everything that comes afterwards. The fallout from bad pacing is a lot, lot bigger in a visual medium like anime compared to something like manga or novel, where the pacing is dictated by the audience, as opposed to anime where the creators direct the audience's pacing and attention. Like the latter half of episode 1, where the pacing suddenly isn't right. Stuff like sours the viewer's mood in a split-second and it's not something the audience can just adjust for like a novel or manga.

Basically, the anime staff have to trim unnecessary lines and scenes from the source material not just because of time constraints, but because they can upset the flow of the episode. Light novel readers will be aware that the scene with Shidou and Tohka in the end of ep 2 had a lot more stuff going on in it, with several individual gags. Imagine that same scene starting out like it is in the anime, but suddenly in the middle you have these gags pop up while that kind of bgm is ongoing. It's unnatural. That sort of rapid-fire joke gag kind of play works when the show is setup for it, like seizon, but Date A Live is not that kind of show. The kind of story it's trying to tell would be ruined by that sort of fast-paced back and forth style of dialogue and action. So imagine trying fit that novel scene word-for-word and action-by-action into the same approximately one minute-worth of time for the scene I mentioned. You can either cram it in and have the characters firing their lines back and forth like a gag comedy show (which totally clashes with the kind of story Date A Live is trying to tell), or you can draw out the scene. That however would then slow down the pacing of the story so much it feels like a slice-of-life anime, which Date A Live also isn't. Again there is no fixed pacing in a novel or manga; the reader can read as fast or slow as they want, or read in sections, or go back, and so on. Anime can't do that.

So the anime staff have to maintain a very specific pace of storytelling, not fast like a gag comedy, but not slow like a slice-of-life. To fit that ideal speed, some trimming and altering of the light novel lines is required. That Tohka/Shidou scene at the end of episode 2 cut out a lot of dialogue and actions from the light novel, and settled with only them meeting each other, and then pretty much straight to the uniform transformation. However, the scene doesn't feel too rushed or too drawn-out, and they did insert an anime original gag involving Origami's picture which I thought was a creative solution to the problem of how to get Tohka to change into the uniform without the presence of that other student in the light novel (which frankly felt too arbitrary. Shidou obviously had a reason to visit the ruined school, so let's have this random student show up too for some totally arbitrary reason, all so that Tohka can copy her outfit. Light novels can get away with blatant storytelling devices like that far more easily than visual media like anime can).

Pacing aside, that scene at the end of ep2 feels like a nice primer for the next episode, which is going to be the actual date. Gag comedy or slice-of-life would probably have felt out of place at the end of this episode.

My point is, the anime staff not only cannot but SHOULD NOT be literally or even relatively close to literally faithful to the source material. This is an adaptation. They're adapting the source material to fit into a vastly different form of storytelling medium. Sometimes stuff gets cut not just for time, but for the betterment of the resulting work.
__________________
THAT'S MY ONII-CHAAAAAAAANN!!!!!!!

Last edited by Shinova; 2013-04-08 at 06:08.
Shinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 07:08   Link #470
Iggy_Pop
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Tohka was pretty cute even in the light novel, but the way she said date repeatedly in the anime is just pure win
Iggy_Pop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 07:31   Link #471
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 07:50   Link #472
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Why the heck would anyone do Option B.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 08:00   Link #473
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Why the heck would anyone do Option B.
to kill you annoying little sister?
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 08:05   Link #474
Iggy_Pop
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
I read that the Blu Ray and DVD will contain a director's cut of the first two episodes, hopefully it's good.
Iggy_Pop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 10:13   Link #475
Chiu_fan
Panzer Vor!
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Inside a WWII German tank
I kinda loled at the "Mahal Kita" bit there. After watching 2 episodes already, I'm really loving this series and it makes me want to download the novel now.
__________________
Chiu_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 10:32   Link #476
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Shidou should have just ignored the crew and A.I. Their suggestions were entertaining, but useless.
Thats the point, they're gonna mess things up and make them worse.
__________________
Miraluka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 10:34   Link #477
HandofFate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
After watching the first two episodes, I keep flip-flopping.

Half the time, I'm like "eh..don't see it going anywhere entertaining, I drop it after this" then some scenes or lines make me watch a bit more, then back to the first mood.
__________________
...
HandofFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 10:57   Link #478
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
After watching the first two episodes, I keep flip-flopping.

Half the time, I'm like "eh..don't see it going anywhere entertaining, I drop it after this" then some scenes or lines make me watch a bit more, then back to the first mood.
Tsundere for an anime series?
__________________
Miraluka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 13:54   Link #479
Xion Valkyrie
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinova View Post
If you're having a problem with HOW the show has borrowed from different genres and put them together, then that's a different story. I think one needs a good deal of visual novel experience to really appreciate Date A Live. If you have that, then various things about the story start to sink in. Things like how Shidou has to date and conquer girls to save the world, and how the organization treats dating like it's a battle with analysis of the opponent and making judgements. The whole story's a quirky bend on the entire romance galge scene, and most of the audience here likely lacks that experience. It's like watching a movie about poker and you don't know a thing about the game. You're missing out on a large portion of what would make such a movie enjoyable.
TWOGK also deals with the same set up Galge tropes but the different elements are brought together in a much more cohesive fashion.

Quote:
As for the adaptation from novel to anime, I think they're doing a pretty good job for the most part. It's like transliteration vs translation. If you copied literally from one format to another you end up with a terrible output.

...


My point is, the anime staff not only cannot but SHOULD NOT be literally or even relatively close to literally faithful to the source material. This is an adaptation. They're adapting the source material to fit into a vastly different form of storytelling medium. Sometimes stuff gets cut not just for time, but for the betterment of the resulting work.
I understand different mediums will need the content tweaked to fit the format, but in this case, even if I didn't read the manga, the way the first episode went still wouldn't have worked for me.
Xion Valkyrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-08, 16:33   Link #480
Shinova
ANGRY LOLI POWER
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Thats the point, they're gonna mess things up and make them worse.
Shidou's already a natural-born womanizer it seems. No way they're gonna outdo the harem protagonist genes within him.

And if I found an imouto like Kotori dancing on top of me, I'd pick E: All of the above!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Pop View Post
Tohka was pretty cute even in the light novel, but the way she said date repeatedly in the anime is just pure win
When she went "Baka Baka!" the first time it's such a huge contrast to the cold, hostile personality she had beforehand it's a big, and pleasant surprise.
__________________
THAT'S MY ONII-CHAAAAAAAANN!!!!!!!
Shinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, romance, sci-fi, tsundere

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.