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Old 2013-04-29, 23:19   Link #901
VTHokiePride
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I have to admit this show wasn't what I thought it would originally be. I didn't thinking it would focus completely on dating. The advisors are for dating, every initial conversation with a new spirit is a like a dating sim, etc. After watching the first episodes, I figured this would turn into a harem. I want Touka to end with Shido. Yoshino seems like the adorable little sister. However, the show has a few more episodes with a few more spirits being introduced.
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Old 2013-04-29, 23:42   Link #902
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Actually I used both Touka and Yoshino.

If not every 'capture' is that same and things get more interesting later then great, but at the moment I can only judge with what I have been given.
That's what I'm talking about; before the whole main cast is even introduced is far too premature to be calling the series done-to-death. A large part of why I don't believe in the three episode rule; oftentimes, the main bad guy isn't even introduced so early in the series, and certainly not any big plot twists.

Quote:
Oh btw, more interesting doesn't refer to just the characters themselves but also the scenario- and no im not asking something like "dont make it about capturing girls", just surprise me with how to go about doing it.
Well, to avoid novel spoilers, all I can say is while capturing spirits is the main, non-spoiler "thing" in the series, it is far from the only big plot point. There are definitely things going on in the background. (this should already be evident just from the presence of the multiple, conflicting organizations already introduced though) Though there's no way the anime can get to all of it unless they do more seasons.
And no, the series won't go about the dating thing the same way every time. It actually gets pretty hectic a couple times...........

Quote:
Thats only if they show is over- you can't promise something would be great 'later' unless you have seen it yourself.
Likewise, you can't promise an anime is bad, simple, or won't develop into something bigger/better if you've only seen a handful of episodes.

Quote:
Maybe her character doesn't need to have some secret or twist, but the situation surrounding her could.
It doesn't have to, though it does a bit. (novel spoilers) I'd say she's plenty liked anyway since she's number one on the DAL novel popularity polls. (not posting the picture of the poll since it has novel characters on it)

Quote:
Alright I'll put it in another way- when you first read this book or watch this Anime, what is the most suprising story element that you like? It doesn't have to be original, just what is something that you didn't expect?
Honestly, nothing really surprised me, except for Kotori's "other" self (which still doesn't really please me) and what Touka's real personality was like after Shidou got her to open up.
You don't have to surprise everybody; getting them to like what they see, surprise or not, is the goal. Not every viewer is like you, no offense; many/most viewers/readers are plenty satisfied with something they simply like, not something that surprises them.

And obviously Date A Live cleared the goal of attracting readers, with an anime announced after only two novel volumes:

"According to Fantasia Bunko, it has never planned an anime adaptation of one of its titles as quickly as this one."

And there's the PS3 visual novel that was in the works before the anime even began airing and (sort of) soon-to-be-released. (even Oreimo, with all its popularity, only got a VN released shortly after the anime on the PSP, its sequel still only made the PSP, and it's only getting a PS3 version long well after the first season aired)
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Old 2013-04-30, 00:04   Link #903
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
That's what I'm talking about; before the whole main cast is even introduced is far to premature to be calling the series done-to-death. A large part of why I don't believe in the three episode rule; oftentimes, the main bad guy isn't even introduced so early in the series, and certainly not any big plot twists.
And yet there are stories that don't require the entire main cast to be revealed for them to be good.

It CAN be done.

Quote:
Likewise, you can't promise an anime is bad, simple, or won't develop into something bigger/better if you've only seen a handful of episodes.
You cannot expect people to waddle through several episodes of 'bad' with only a small promise of "it will get better."

Thats why the three episodes rule exist.

Maybe you don't need to wow them, but you certainly need to hook them with something.

Quote:
It doesn't have to. I'd say she's plenty liked since she's number one on the DAL novel popularity polls. (not posting the picture of the poll since it has novel characters on it)
Its depends on the reason she is liked.

Quote:
Honestly, nothing really surprised me, except for Kotori's "other" self (which still doesn't really please me) and what Touka's real personality was like after Shidou got her to open up.
You don't have to surprise everybody; getting them to like what they see, surprise or not, is the goal.
If nothing surprises you, then how can you blame people for not being impressed by it and calling it more of the same?

Quote:
And obviously Date A Live cleared the goal of attracting readers, with an anime announced after only two novel volumes and a PS3 visual novel in the works and (sort of) soon-to-be-released before the anime even begins airing. (even Oreimo, with all its popularity, only got a VN released shortly after the anime on the PSP, its sequel still only made the PSP, and it's only getting a PS3 version long well after the first season aired)
I hate to break it to you, but there's easily another explanation for that.

Date A Live got its Anime so soon is the results of the Anime industry 'burning' through tons of titles for adaptation, so much so that they need to grab titles earlier and earlier.

As for the VN, OreImo back then were the ones who helped set the trend for PSP vn games to be developed together with the series, before then nobody really did that. Date A Live isnt doing anything new.
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Old 2013-04-30, 00:21   Link #904
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And yet there are stories that don't require the entire main cast to be revealed for them to be good.

It CAN be done.
It doesn't HAVE to be done. And saying a series isn't good because it doesn't do so would be flawed in all kinds of ways.

Quote:
You cannot expect people to waddle through several episodes of 'bad' with only a small promise of "it will get better."

Thats why the three episodes rule exist.
Well, again no offense, that's their fault. Nevermind the fact that no author/director can cater to every reader/viewer out there, but offering a premise that's just calmly likeable and draws people in, as opposed to delivering a jaw-dropping, gripping opener, is just as successful and time-honored as the opposite. Case in point, this very same series.

Quote:
Yes within your group she is popular, but now that the Anime is out, we can compare her to other heroines can't we?
What do you think people were doing when she was just a novel character? You don't think they compared her to novel Shana or novel Kirino?
Just don't say something arrogant (again, no offense) like that proves Touka isn't a popular character. But the fact that the DAL novels shot into anime-dom so quickly should that Touka is far from unlikeable, since she'e the main heroine after all. And at the time the anime was green-lit, only she, Yoshino, and Kotori had been introduced, and since the popularity poll showed Touka is more popular than either of them..........

Quote:
If nothing surprises you, then how can you blame people for not being impressed by it?
I don't. I'm not blaming people for not being surprised at all. I don't think the only way to make a good story opener is to surprise viewers/readers. I'm saying that the opener not being surprising isn't a good reason for saying it's not good.

Quote:
I hate to break it to you, but there's easily another explanation for that.

Date A Live got its Anime so soon is the results of the Anime industry 'burning' through tons of titles for adaptation, so much so that they need to grab titles earlier and earlier.

As for the VN, OreImo back then were the ones who helped set the trend for PSP vn games to be developed together with the series, before then nobody really did that. Date A Live isnt doing anything new.
And is this stated anywhere? This sounds more like a biased opinion rather than something based on facts, among other problems with this statement.

And I didn't say Date A Live was doing anything new with its game. Lots of things don't do anything new. They just do it faster or slower, just like DAL did it faster.
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Old 2013-04-30, 00:51   Link #905
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
It doesn't HAVE to be done. And saying a series isn't good because it doesn't do so would be flawed in all kinds of ways.
And nothing has changed so far to disprove that initial impression.

Quote:
Well, again no offense, that's their fault. Nevermind the fact that no author/director can cater to every reader/viewer out there, but offering a premise that's just calmly likeable and draws people in, as opposed to delivering a jaw-dropping, gripping opener, is just as successful and time-honored as the opposite. Case in point, this very same series.
Blaming the customers for not liking your goods is a surefire way to lose business.

The same could be applied here.

Quote:
What do you think people were doing when she was just a novel character? You don't think they compared her to novel Shana or novel Kirino?
And since I think I see a little confusion there, the poll I'm talking about is the in-series poll, as in the characters of DAL, not all novels.
But just don't say something arrogant (again, no offense) like that proves Touka isn't a generally popular character. But the fact that the DAL novels shot into anime-dom so quickly should that Touka is far from unlikeable, since she'e the main heroine after all. And at the time the anime was green-lit, only she, Yoshino, and Kotori had been introduced, and since the popularity poll showed Touka is more popular than either of them..........
I probably shouldn't have said it like that- it was mean spirited of me and not the point so let me try again.

Touka's popularity is not my focus, I was only talking about how her 'capture' was handled.

Her popularity might be a result of many other factors within the story that has not occurred yet.

Quote:
I don't. I'm not blaming people for not being surprised at all. I don't think the only way to make a good story opener is to surprise viewers/readers. I'm saying that the opener not being surprising isn't a good reason for saying it's not good.
We are way passed talking about openers here. Its nearing the half mark already.

Quote:
And is this stated anywhere? This sounds more like a biased opinion rather than something based on facts, among other problems with this statement.
What are the sales figure? How big is its following? Where does the novel stand in terms of popularity? What are the critics saying?

What is the outstanding points about this series?

Quote:
And I didn't say Date A Live was doing anything new with its game. Lots of things don't do anything new. They just do it faster or slower, just like DAL did it faster.
Then why bring it up like its an achievement?
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Old 2013-04-30, 01:18   Link #906
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
And nothing has changed so far to disprove that initial impression.
All the popularity the series got in just two volumes leads me to disagree with you, besides my own opinion of the series of course.
Wanting a surprising opener isn't wrong at all. But It's not the Law of Storytelling. Not having a surprising opener and just working things up works to bring in viewers/readers just as well, as has been proven for years.
I get that you were looking for something with a surprising opener, and I get that DAL didn't do that for you. But your preferred way of storytelling isn't the only one that works.

Quote:
Blaming the customers for not liking your goods is a surefire way to lose business.

The same could be applied here.
Well they're not my cutsomers, so I can point out that fact that it doesn't change the truth regardless of how it affects somebody's business.

Quote:
Touka's popularity is not my focus, I was only talking about how her 'capture' was handled.

Her popularity might be a result of many other factors within the story that has not occurred yet.
I'm sure you're right. Factors which haven't had time to get into the anime yet. (and some won't, not this season anyway, assuming there will be more seasons)

Quote:
We are way passed talking about openers here. Its nearing the half mark already.
Well I was still speaking about disappointment in openers when I said that.
But yeah more to the point, again there's no rule that says the author/director has to drop everything at a certain point in the series. And remember that this is a novel adaptation, not an original anime, so its plot is operating on the novel's schedule unless the anime were to go full-swing original; we're only at a space between novel volumes 2 and 3 (the upcoming hot spring episode is anime original, as people have said already) of more than 7, and it's highly unlikely that volume 8 will be the last one.
I really can't say anything without novel spoilers coming in, but you're not going to have to wait long at all for things to heat up.



Quote:
What are the sales figure? How big is its following? Where does the novel stand in terms of popularity? What are the critics saying?

What is the outstanding points about this series?
Considering the fact that an anime was green-lit after a mere two volumes...........while I don't have any specific answers, I'd say they're all or mostly quite positive. Anime companies, like any company, are about profit. They don't focus on things that haven't sold well. That's just business logic.
On the other hand, saying DAL was only anime-ized by default, based on a murky and unsupported view of the anime industry that the novel/manga industry is running dry of adapting material is problematic at best and sounds more like anattempt to explain away DAL's popularity.

(don't take that as an insult, I'm just saying the cold hard facts there )

Quote:
Then why bring it up like its an achievement?
Because

a) getting a novel-based game green-lit so much time before its anime adaptation comes out is a big deal

b) it shows how the popularity was high enough for the bean-counters at the companies to green-light it so quickly

c) it also shows the popularity because it got a game faster than other highly popular series-es

d) it shot straight to a PS3 game, which everybody knows is more expensive to make than PSP games (Oreimo only got a PS3 game after two PSP games to generate sales, and let's be honest, the second game was more of a bonus disc, hence why they included the first game without charging much more for the double pack)

This shows lots of popularity for the base title. Companies are all about making money; they don't just throw lots of projects at a title without good sales driving it, and certainly not so quickly.
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Old 2013-04-30, 01:33   Link #907
monir
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It has quiet-loli mascot in a potential harem type situation with a tsundere who has been killing people for the longest, and a hot sniper with the personality of a bucket who can confuse the male lead anytime merely by opening her mouth. Plus the sniper looks good when she is sporting herself in a towel. Watched all 4 episodes and I'm in the opinion that I like it! My type of show!
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Old 2013-04-30, 01:35   Link #908
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
You cannot expect people to waddle through several episodes of 'bad' with only a small promise of "it will get better."

Thats why the three episodes rule exist.
I suggest you follow the rule and stop watching. If you think it's bad now, then you are unlikely to suddenly start to like it later. There will be developments, but it wont turn into a totally different anime.

Bye.
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Old 2013-04-30, 02:17   Link #909
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
*snipped*
What are the sales figure? How big is its following? Where does the novel stand in terms of popularity? What are the critics saying?

What is the outstanding points about this series?



Then why bring it up like its an achievement?
If you refer back to what I posted in Oregairu a few hours back, novels sales are actually in the top 20 last year, at 300,996 copies in 2012, which means that it's doing well above average. So I would say, yup, it's popular.

I agree that the 3-4 episode rule is fair for an LN adaptation, since that's about 1 volume, and that's what the author has to rely on to sell people into buying volume 2. While I do know of special cases when the story gets insanely better after volume 10 (and also when story turns to shit after 4-5 volumes), but usually, for these (former case) series, first few volumes still manage to sell me enough to continue reading. That's why I stopped after ep 4 for DoA.

So I guess, DoA is just not my cup of tea, since it manages to rub me off the wrong way in so many different ways

Somehow, I understood that my taste does not coincide with the masses when it comes to love (harem) comedies when they are set in fantasy or sci-fi settings (IS, DxD, Campione, DoA, etc. ...... ) I probably prefer the Slice-of-Life ones
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Old 2013-04-30, 02:18   Link #910
Marly
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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
I suggest you follow the rule and stop watching. If you think it's bad now, then you are unlikely to suddenly start to like it later. There will be developments, but it wont turn into a totally different anime.

Bye.
Is it really all that difficult for you to comprehend that people don't have to like literally everything about what they watch or read? Grow up.
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Old 2013-04-30, 03:08   Link #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
It has quiet-loli mascot in a potential harem type situation with a tsundere who has been killing people for the longest, and a hot sniper with the personality of a bucket who can confuse the male lead anytime merely by opening her mouth. Plus the sniper looks good when she is sporting herself in a towel. Watched all 4 episodes and I'm in the opinion that I like it! My type of show!
I couldn't have said it better.

This isn't for everyone that's for sure. But I'm enjoying the ride.
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Old 2013-04-30, 07:07   Link #912
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Personally i find it funny that people who complain a lot are mostly anime-only viewers and the ones who defend the anime are mostly experienced novel readers Kinda reminds me of DxD anime thread few months ago
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Old 2013-04-30, 10:04   Link #913
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
It has quiet-loli mascot in a potential harem type situation with a tsundere who has been killing people for the longest, and a hot sniper with the personality of a bucket who can confuse the male lead anytime merely by opening her mouth. Plus the sniper looks good when she is sporting herself in a towel. Watched all 4 episodes and I'm in the opinion that I like it! My type of show!
If you are referring toTouka she has not killed anyone although I believe she would in self defence.

My bigest complaint is they are cutting novel scenes, some of which are fairly important for the over all plot, yet are still throwing in anime only filler re-using the same jokes over and over that don't add anything to the story.
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Old 2013-04-30, 13:17   Link #914
ThereminVox
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Somehow, the mounting evidence that Origami is more or less batshit has done little to dissuade me from loving her.
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Old 2013-04-30, 19:14   Link #915
Miraluka
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More director 's cuts from episodes 2 & 3:

Spoiler:
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Old 2013-04-30, 20:48   Link #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
More director 's cuts from episodes 2 & 3:

Spoiler:
Spoiler for DC stuff:
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Old 2013-04-30, 21:11   Link #917
Moe Connection
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After watching the TWO episodes of the Yoshino arc, I think they've rushed it. A number of important details like the real relationship between Yoshino and Yoshinon was cut out.
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Old 2013-04-30, 23:06   Link #918
Shinji103
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Lol, so much stuff added into the director's cut. Nice marketing ploy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Spoiler for DC stuff:
Well, they already pointed out her backstory at the end of episode 1. The dream would just serve to enhance it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
After watching the TWO episodes of the Yoshino arc, I think they've rushed it. A number of important details like the real relationship between Yoshino and Yoshinon was cut out.
Seeing as how they're already adding in backstory scenes for Origami in the director's cut, it's largely possible they'll do the same for Yoshino.

As for the immediate "why," time-to-material constraints, making sure the anime doesn't end at a bad spot. Though not cutting time for the hot springs episode would have helped....
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Old 2013-05-01, 10:26   Link #919
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Is the director's cut the Nico version?
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Old 2013-05-01, 10:50   Link #920
Shinji103
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Is the director's cut the Nico version?
Nope. I believe it's the BD/DVD.
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