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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 05
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 35 22.88%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 41 26.80%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 18.95%
7 out of 10 : Good... 30 19.61%
6 out of 10 : Average... 8 5.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.31%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 4 2.61%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 1 0.65%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 2 1.31%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.65%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-06, 11:32   Link #241
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Anyone who thinks that a game developer can magically think of every possible bizarro combination of things a user will try ahead of time, or that all of the things they do think of will get fixed before the first release, has obviously never worked on a big software project.

At my workplace, a problem like this would have been classified as "Priority 5 - Unlikely set of steps to reproduce" and promptly buried under a mountain of other issues that were actually worthwhile to fix.
I totally agree. And that aside, the special nature of this situation plays into it too. It's actually kind of impressive that there aren't more post-launch bugs considering the game apparently has not been getting any patches (since no one could logout to update). In any modern game these days, despite beta tests, you still expect a lot of bugs/exploits to be discovered post-launch and to be fixed later. If it weren't for the unexpected high stakes of death in this case, it is indeed quite likely the development team would have considered this bug not a big deal at all. (You have to imagine that our criminal mastermind wasn't the only person programming the entire game, but the rest of the team presumably had no idea about his master plan, so they weren't exactly worried about the odd hard-to-reproduce dual system bug. It's only become a big deal now to the players given the critical change in the game conditions; any bug/exploit now can be literally deadly.)
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Old 2012-08-06, 12:00   Link #242
Esebian
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I totally agree. And that aside, the special nature of this situation plays into it too. It's actually kind of impressive that there aren't more post-launch bugs considering the game apparently has not been getting any patches (since no one could logout to update). In any modern game these days, despite beta tests, you still expect a lot of bugs/exploits to be discovered post-launch and to be fixed later. If it weren't for the unexpected high stakes of death in this case, it is indeed quite likely the development team would have considered this bug not a big deal at all. (You have to imagine that our criminal mastermind wasn't the only person programming the entire game, but the rest of the team presumably had no idea about his master plan, so they weren't exactly worried about the odd hard-to-reproduce dual system bug. It's only become a big deal now to the players given the critical change in the game conditions; any bug/exploit now can be literally deadly.)
Yeah and let's be serious, the gamers now are in that game for over 1 and a half year, that's muuuch longer any beta-test would go. Also it is said that they found out about this bug 6 months ago, so even then they were 1 year ingame: Imho enough time for finding bugs/exploits en masse

I don't know if it's just me, but sometimes I think some people are actually searching for things they can comment negatively about, because come on, this is meant as a GAME not as a death-trap. Even if the bug was found in the beta test, as LyricalAura already stated it would be a low priority bug and would be most likely patched away after some players would find and "rage" about it. Maybe it even would have never been found, I mean who would sleep ingame, apart from some hardcore gamers ofc.
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Old 2012-08-06, 12:46   Link #243
Jaden
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Pretty cool, I didn't expect a murder mystery from this anime. It's a pretty good one too but I'll share my thoughts:

From episode 1, it seems the game master is able to alter the game data on the fly, so that'd allow for fixing bugs and exploits, maybe even rolling back the game or individual players. It's also established the game is meant to challenge the players. So game-breaking bugs would be hotfixed. It then follows that the method being used to PK people in this episode is considered legitimate by the game master.

The killings are rather strange though...the second one couldn't have been a backstab so the weapon was thrown? Maybe by throwing from outside the safe zone you can get around the PK restrictions. But what about the first kill? There was apparently a person standing behind Kains. Yet he's impaled from the front. An accomplice hung him from the clock tower and the PKer threw the weapon from outside town, then?
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Old 2012-08-06, 13:14   Link #244
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I totally agree. And that aside, the special nature of this situation plays into it too. It's actually kind of impressive that there aren't more post-launch bugs considering the game apparently has not been getting any patches (since no one could logout to update). In any modern game these days, despite beta tests, you still expect a lot of bugs/exploits to be discovered post-launch and to be fixed later. If it weren't for the unexpected high stakes of death in this case, it is indeed quite likely the development team would have considered this bug not a big deal at all.
No, they'd all have jumped on it to solve it. Because it's pretty much the only bug, so the maintenance team is bored out of its mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minoye View Post
I'm pretty sure some MMO have an option to automatically deny a duel (and also party invite, whispers, etc..).
Main purpose was to avoid harassement, but this could be a way to counter sleep PK.
- Just because it's in "some" MMO doesn't mean it has to be in SAO.
- It doesn't matter. The problem with sleep-PK or sleep-anything is that they can operate your menu. As if they broke and entered your home while you're AFK so they can manipulate your character. There's no counter to that except not sleeping where people can reach you, or having trustworthy people guard you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by molitar View Post
Now off that topic and onto common sense. If something was to happen like this in real life and the key to stop it was the game had to be won.. you would think they would modify NERV gear themselves so they are not dangerous and send in crack troops into the game itself.. either hacking or logging in.. and than organize and protect the hostages and clear the floors. All the worlds governments I can not see anyway to prevent something like this no matter how intelligent the psycho developer was after all the governments always have technology the rest of the world does not have so the psycho developer could not protect against everything! The story just has so many flaws outside of the game world.
- it's a Japanese problem.
- more importantly, if you're going to assume they have some "secret technology" that can do anything, why not assume they have a "log out everyone without killing them" button, but have refuse to push it because of bureaucratic inertia?

In fact, thinking about it, spoofing a completion signal to the NervGears to trigger the release sounds much, much easier than creating hundreds of accounts for a system on a powerful computer that is rigged not to accept any more.

But "easier" isn't the same as "doable".

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2012-08-06 at 15:00.
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:21   Link #245
hero147
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I'm starting to think that the game should have been made such that only the player can see his or her own menu. But kudos to the light sleepers like me. If you so much as sit on the bed or enter the room I wake up.
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:24   Link #246
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Originally Posted by hero147 View Post
I'm starting to think that the game should have been made such that only the player can see his or her own menu. But kudos to the light sleepers like me. If you so much as sit on the bed or enter the room I wake up.
The game is made like that. Characters can only see their own menus unless they intentionally change the settings. The anime doesn't show it though. You'll note that the anime goes into "character vision" sometimes where it shows the target markers and such. So the rest of the time we're in some kind of weird 3rd person view which honestly doesn't make any sense given the premise.
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:48   Link #247
Anh_Minh
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Sachi was able to see Kirito's menu, though. (different from the cursors and status bars that they see)

But even if they can't see the menu, they know it enough to manipulate it with their eyes closed.
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:51   Link #248
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Maybe he was showing her something earlier and didn't bother to change it since he thought she was asleep?
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:57   Link #249
Anh_Minh
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Doubtful. He'd have been careful of his menu since there are countless things that'd reveal his level.
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Old 2012-08-06, 14:59   Link #250
Clarste
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Okay, then it's a plothole because they mention numerous other times that menus are hidden. And frankly, well, if they weren't they how could he have hidden his level for so long at all?
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Old 2012-08-06, 16:43   Link #251
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Doubtful. He'd have been careful of his menu since there are countless things that'd reveal his level.
It's easier to simply assume he didn't think twice about it because he thought she was asleep.

Yes, he's trying to hide his level from his guild... but he's not insisting she sleep elsewhere. So obviously he's highly comfortable with her. Odds he got careless at least ONCE would be very high.
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Old 2012-08-06, 17:40   Link #252
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Okay, then it's a plothole because they mention numerous other times that menus are hidden.
Perhaps there's a skill that players can level that lets them see other players' menus? We've already seen that there are an innumerable amount of skills in the game like there are in real life. Kirito even thought that there might have been a skill that allows players to player kill inside towns, so I wouldn't think twice if we later found out there's a skill that lets players see other people's menus

And yay! Asuna's back!!!
Although I thought her re-entrance into the plot was kinda dull: her and Kirito arguing at a gathering as if that's how it has always been
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Old 2012-08-06, 17:58   Link #253
hero147
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Sachi was able to see Kirito's menu, though. (different from the cursors and status bars that they see)

But even if they can't see the menu, they know it enough to manipulate it with their eyes closed.
Yes, this is what I was getting at. But I've never read the novels so my understanding is pretty limited. I've come to accept things for the way they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
It's easier to simply assume he didn't think twice about it because he thought she was asleep.

Yes, he's trying to hide his level from his guild... but he's not insisting she sleep elsewhere. So obviously he's highly comfortable with her. Odds he got careless at least ONCE would be very high.
But on the other hand, Kirito doesn't seem like a clumsy fellow who forgets to lock his house on the way out (like Asuna sleeping and leaving herself open to sleep-PK in this episode). I would never expect Kirito to accidentally nap out in the open (that is to say that I hope he was just lying down this episode and not actually asleep).

But I also understand Kirito does take too many chances which might align with his suicidal tendencies a few episodes ago...I'm just a bit skeptical about having the option for other people see your menus. With sleep-pkers on the loose, the option would always be flipped to "never allow other players to see my menu" and there would be no reason to change it from this setting.
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Old 2012-08-06, 19:59   Link #254
Archon_Wing
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Hmm, am I a bad person, if I remember that rather long ass shot the most from this episode?

Anyhow, episode was alright. Beginning felt kinda jarring, and then the ending sorta made me laugh. But at least the interactions between Kirito and Asuna are nice, and bring the story a bit on track from its meandering state.

Also, townkilling sux.
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Old 2012-08-06, 20:35   Link #255
AC-Phoenix
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
- it's a Japanese problem.
- more importantly, if you're going to assume they have some "secret technology" that can do anything, why not assume they have a "log out everyone without killing them" button, but have refuse to push it because of bureaucratic inertia?

In fact, thinking about it, spoofing a completion signal to the NervGears to trigger the release sounds much, much easier than creating hundreds of accounts for a system on a powerful computer that is rigged not to accept any more.

But "easier" isn't the same as "doable".
There is actually a not-so-secret technology. - An EMP/EMF
And i think the danger of 10 000 people getting cancer is still more acceptable than several thousand dying for the sake of some sick guys amusement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
The game is made like that. Characters can only see their own menus unless they intentionally change the settings. The anime doesn't show it though. You'll note that the anime goes into "character vision" sometimes where it shows the target markers and such. So the rest of the time we're in some kind of weird 3rd person view which honestly doesn't make any sense given the premise.
Do they actually state that or is this an assumption?Because to me it looks like we could only see his menue for the purpose of not asking us why he points his finger in the air. - The other thing she saw was imho a Character page


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Maybe he was showing her something earlier and didn't bother to change it since he thought she was asleep?
I think the menue she saw was his character page which you can access in almost every game (Inspect character)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserkguard View Post
Perhaps there's a skill that players can level that lets them see other players' menus? We've already seen that there are an innumerable amount of skills in the game like there are in real life. Kirito even thought that there might have been a skill that allows players to player kill inside towns, so I wouldn't think twice if we later found out there's a skill that lets players see other people's menus

And yay! Asuna's back!!!
Although I thought her re-entrance into the plot was kinda dull: her and Kirito arguing at a gathering as if that's how it has always been
there are actually other ways:
- You start a duel inside the city and lead the person outside druing the fight (-> logic)
- You carry a sleeping/unconcious person outside the safe zone and do the Sleep PK (-> logic)

So yes throwing from outside COULD be possible, but I highly doubt that the guy could have one hitted her.
I actually expect to see her again or find out that she comitted suicide.

You have to think of this crime from a character perspective - The Kunai was stuck in her back and the characters only heard it she could have easily wounded herself.
The next strange thing is: Why the hell did she turn around so they could see it? that doesn't make any sense. Not to speak about her technically being one hitted, its actually imho more likely that she died from the fall than the Kunai.
So I assume she has a 'Fake death' ability.
Moreover if you
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Old 2012-08-06, 23:11   Link #256
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Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
There is actually a not-so-secret technology. - An EMP/EMF
And i think the danger of 10 000 people getting cancer is still more acceptable than several thousand dying for the sake of some sick guys amusement.
You think an EMP just disables electronics like by magic?

Sure, it sounds like a brilliant idea to run a strong electromagnetic pulse through a device that is able to produce microwaves strong enough to cook a brain in fractions of a second, cause that is sure not to cook any brains.
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Old 2012-08-06, 23:24   Link #257
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Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
You think an EMP just disables electronics like by magic?

Sure, it sounds like a brilliant idea to run a strong electromagnetic pulse through a device that is able to produce microwaves strong enough to cook a brain in fractions of a second, cause that is sure not to cook any brains.
Video games systems got expanded but weapon developement and military technology became stagnant and didn't move forward, yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht suuuuuuuuuuuuure ...
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Old 2012-08-06, 23:34   Link #258
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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
Video games systems got expanded but weapon developement and military technology became stagnant and didn't move forward, yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah righhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht suuuuuuuuuuuuure ...
Weapon development move forward, so do defensive techniques. EMP shielding is available even now.
And let me remind you that you are talking about product of a genius who is supposed to be a few years ahead of whole science world... (more elaboration would be spoiler, so I will leave it at that)
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Old 2012-08-07, 00:13   Link #259
Znail
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Considering that the device itself emits microwaves, so is it a good idea that it's not as sensitive against EMP as most electronic equipment as then it would risk failing from normal use. And while EMP does fry electronics, so doesn't it do that in a safe way. Consider the static feedback you get from turning on a mobile phone near some speakers and turn that up a million. I wouldn't consider it a safe thing to EMP some complicated electronics connected to someones head.

Then there are the issue of users. Do you plan to simultaneously fry around 6000 people at the same time? Where will you get that number of EMP devices? What do you think would happen to the ones you can't get to at the same time?

I find it somewhat amusing that people desperatly try and find plot holes in a story that is fairly consistent and well thought out, when there are plenty of stories where you can drive a buss through any hole you want.
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Old 2012-08-07, 01:14   Link #260
Anh_Minh
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Also, they're all in hospitals and can't be moved. You're going to fire an EMP in there?
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