AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Sword Art Online

Notices

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 05
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 35 22.88%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 41 26.80%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 18.95%
7 out of 10 : Good... 30 19.61%
6 out of 10 : Average... 8 5.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.31%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 4 2.61%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 1 0.65%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 2 1.31%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.65%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-08-10, 13:03   Link #361
Irenicus
Le fou, c'est moi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 24
Great anime we're having here. I wasn't buying into the hype with SAO, and while I was proven wrong, it was happily so. Not the least because I've gone through the episode threads and Jesus Christ you LN readers are raging hard. Good thing I came with no expectations huh. XD

Like Flower I do feel like that the story finally seems to be "returning to focus," although that didn't mean that the last few episodes were wasted. Impressions of those episodes belong in their threads -- I more or less agreed with the anime-only people's "consensus;" great start with 1 and 2, a shocking breakneck pace in 3, a pleasant 4 after all the tragedies. And while this murder mystery arc doesn't seem to be building up to the main story either, the presence of the much-promoted heroine helps make it feel that way somehow.

I've missed out on Fate/Zero so it's been a while since I've got to watch an action/adventure anime. Not that I dislike slices of life, moe, harem, romance, comedies, etc., but by the gods I missed this stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
The world is safe because we make it safe. Law, trade, medicine, civilization is designed to keep us safer than we were before. We've got 10,000 years of history in taming the natural world that's otherwise trying to kill us. So yes, it's safer, because we made it that way.
That's true, but I don't think other people are comparing the dangers of a historic hunter-gatherer lifestyle vs. an MMO, um, hunter-gatherer lifestyle, rather with a modern city dweller's lifestyle -- something just about everyone in the SAO world was. Hence the horrendous loss of the first month and why SAO world isn't healthy for you: you have to hunt.

________________

Despite that, I think the SAO author has a surprisingly optimistic sense of what people could do in a such a situation. If a Western author writes this story, it will be [ugh how I hate this book] Lord of the Flies. Instead, after the initial disaster, people found partners and guilds, an impromptu class system developed between the skilled and daring and the weak, with the bravest going forth to try and tame an MMO world as best they can -- with wikis and guides (lol). There is even a "front line" where all the great guilds pull together to explore and battle through and free everyone. An impromptu militarized society built around MMO conventions. All of which happened, we assume, from the starting point of despair and relative anarchy. Bravo, Japan?

It does make me wonder, though, how much the rather familiar tropes and rules (such as the no PK in cities rule) of an MMO world helped people make sense of the inherent dangers, and thus why exploits within the rules proved to be such dangerous existential threats. And, moreover, what kind of horrendous disaster it would be if SAO isn't an MMO game of the rather traditional bent but rather a free-for-all like EVE Online. The horror. Oh the horror.

On the arguments you guys are having, while I think the "SAO is safer" side goes too far, since the SAO world is inherently more dangerous by default in that everybody's default occupation is to kill stuff, in other ways the real world -- and EVE -- can be, though usually isn't, much more dangerous. Being a murderous PKer in SAO doesn't really allow you to do much more than loot the occasional rare item, with the downside of being a hated pariah. Being a robber baron in 2012 Earth ('Sup Wall Street!), or EVE Online, can net you fantastic wealth, power, and the ability to buy your own safety net behind a wall of bodies and steel. Great incentive to be scum, greater than mere ennui.

So the [real] world tries to eat you less, because you can actually build walls and cities and make all the bad things go extinct or at least very rare, but your fellow players are much, much worse. Mostly laws and civilization keep most of the threats at bay though, and your daily existence in real life is IMO a safer experience than the daily grind of SAO.

Just hope you don't stay around for something like, "SPECIAL WORLD EVENT: WORLD WAR 2" or "A WILD BLACK DEATH APPEARS."

Last edited by Irenicus; 2012-08-10 at 13:16.
Irenicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 14:21   Link #362
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
Sounds like you guys
There's only one of me...

Quote:
couldn't even spend 2 weeks on a camping trip by the sound of it,
Damn right. Which is why I don't go on those, and would be pissed if I was kidnapped and forced to stay in the wilderness for years.

Quote:
immediately starting to complain about everything you suddenly can't do instead of the opportunities of a changed environment to provide new experiences.
What experiences are we talking about? You can watch some scenery. But it isn't part of a complex, fascinating ecosystem. It's what some art team thought was cool, with a few deadly threats thrown in. Which is all very nice for a few seconds, but would get tedious pretty fast.

You can fight for your life. Which would also get old fast, if there's nothing else to do.

You can work retail. I already don't want to do that in the real world...

All the rest is bad simulations of the real world, whose loss you dismiss so easily.

More importantly than what you can do, though, is that your were forced into these circumstances by a lone madman. That's the difference between being a hikkikomori and being in solitary confinement.

I can't stress enough how important the fact that they didn't volunteer for that shit and had no control over it is. There was an experiment where they sent electric shocks to a couple of dogs. One of them had a button to make the shocks stop, the other didn't. Though they were submitted to exactly the same shocks, guess which dog was relatively content, and which one was completely depressed?

Humans aren't dogs. We think in larger timeframes. That's why Asuna ventured out - so she could "push the button", even if it took years. It's also why players can turn crazy - even if they win some small victories over the game and can theoretically beat it, it's been years and there's been no change - they're still stuck with no end in sight (doubly do for the non-clearers).
Quote:
Where did I say anything about happy pony farm? There is no way you can get a good grasp of the whole situation by looking at it from such a simplistic perspective, there's quite profound ethical, philosophical and psychological questions to be asked that go way beyond 'me not want to die, Kayaba bad person'.

First, what did the players want, and what did they agree to?

As has been mentioned, the 10.000 gamers went to quite extreme lengths to be the first ones in, camping for three days or so in queues. It's fairly reasonable to assume that a very large majority of those wanted to live in another world.
No, it really isn't. They wanted to play a game, not risk their lives. Not give up all they had in the real world (their families, friends, jobs...)

Quote:
If not fulltime, at the very least a large part of their free time, and we're dealing with a complete immersion game which is on the hardcore side of gaming. At some level one could say that it is no longer gaming, but alternative reality.
A lot of gamers like shiny FPS with great graphics and a large choice of weapons. How many of them want to enlist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
Some thoughts on the fairness of the game, triggered by the current episode.

The gaime is fair on the surface, although not because it was meant to be that way, but only out of sheer neccessity.

If Kabaya had included any overtly unfair stuff in the game, it would've been found by the Beta testers, and only very few would've wanted to play an overtly unfair game - thus Kabaya would've never got his 10.000 "lab rats".

In order to attract enough people, the game must be fair on the surface, and any unfair stuff has to be hidden well enough so that the Beta testers wouldn't find it.
There are several unfair features carefully hidden away by Kabaya:

- People being able to manipulate other people's menus. As it's not something that you would ordinarily try to do, it's quite likely no one tried to do it in the Beta. Even if someone should've noticed it, he wouldn't have realised the implications and be content with a "It's a bug and will be fixed in the final version" lie - whereas it was of course a planned feature and not a bug.

- People who are sleeping can have their menus activated and accept duels. As the Beta testers never slept ingame, they never found this out. Again, this is certainly a planned feature and not a bug.

- Duels are by themselves already somewhat unfair, as they undermine the safety of cities and allow people to be killed in cities. Also here, they could've been more safely programmed in that you can't challenge sleeping people to a duel. Once again, that you *can* challenge sleeping people to a duel is probably fully intentional.

- Going from this episode, there's another possibility how players can be killed in cities besides duels. I think it's most likely that it's done by Kabaya having hidden away weapons that can harm and kill players in cities, and/or he added a skill that allows such weapons to be crafted. Grimlock's weapons likely are such weapons.

- Death traps like the one that killed the Black Cat guild Kirito was in. They probably only start appearing at a level the Beta testers never reached. The sole purpose of those death traps is to kill anyone who triggers the trap and is locked within. The monsters are far too many and far too powerful, so that people who would normally enter the dungeon with the death trap in question don't have the slightest chance to escape certain death. Teleport crystals have been intentionally deactivated, just so no one can escape death.
Anyone except for Kirito didn't have the slightest chance against the monsters. Kirito only survived because he was *extremely* overpowered (a whopping 30 levels over the others). If that had been any less (like 10-15 levels over the others), it most likely wouldn't have been enough against all that powerful monsters.

Most likely, there are still more unfair, intentional features, carefully hidden away by Kabaya.
There are plenty of things Kayaba could have done to turn Aincrad into a torture dungeon, if that was his thing. And no, the beta testers wouldn't have found out. Most things you mention can be explained away with the fact that SAO is a MMORPG. Or that VR gaming is still in its infancy (+ the author kinda needing the feature to be that way to have a story...)

The thing is, humans inflict misery and death to animals every day. They bear them no particular malice, and may even have beloved pets. It doesn't stop them because they have other, more important desires or imperatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
No. There actually is a good reason for them to go PKing - boredom. Huge, mindnumbing boredom. There are no forms of entertainment whatsoever in the game - which is just natural. Of course the game wouldn't have any entertainment, as it was only meant to be used as entertainment itself, for just parts of the day. If however the game becomes full-time, that's a problem. If people aren't busy fighting for their lives, there's no enterrtainment, nothing to pass their time. To escape that mind-numbing boredom, some players decided to hunt down other players and PK them as a form of entertainment, and to escape boredom.
I think a larger part of it is to restore an illusion of control. They had their freedom taken away, so they want to push somebody's buttons and be something other than helpless. Kinda why you want to be careful when picking up soap in prison showers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zaz122 View Post
^This exactly. Real life is as much as a grind as any game would be. Heck, I go to work everyday, do the same thing everyday. Anything can be a grind if you do it more than enough times for long enough.
You have much more freedom to escape the grind IRL. Starting with a larger selection of jobs and hobbies. And people to interact with.

Quote:
People have come up with ways to enjoy themselves long, long before computers, television and games. People will adjust and always find ways to slack (that's what we're good at.)
People find ways to adjust to life in jail. It's still a jail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
2. What motivates MMO and JRPG players?
Addiction. Oh, sure, they come for the promise of adventure. But they stay to fill a gauge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Go try fighting a wild boar. Or a tiger.
I don't have to do any of that to earn a living.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I meant the rules are safer. Not that it's statistically safer or whatever.
Not in the way that matters, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
The world is safe because we make it safe. Law, trade, medicine, civilization is designed to keep us safer than we were before. We've got 10,000 years of history in taming the natural world that's otherwise trying to kill us. So yes, it's safer, because we made it that way.
Yes. Exactly. And Kayaba took all that away.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 14:39   Link #363
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Despite that, I think the SAO author has a surprisingly optimistic sense of what people could do in a such a situation. If a Western author writes this story, it will be [ugh how I hate this book] Lord of the Flies. Instead, after the initial disaster, people found partners and guilds, an impromptu class system developed between the skilled and daring and the weak, with the bravest going forth to try and tame an MMO world as best they can -- with wikis and guides (lol). There is even a "front line" where all the great guilds pull together to explore and battle through and free everyone. An impromptu militarized society built around MMO conventions. All of which happened, we assume, from the starting point of despair and relative anarchy. Bravo, Japan?
sounds like you are not a fan of John Ringo's Council War Series.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 14:44   Link #364
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I can't stress enough how important the fact that they didn't volunteer for that shit and had no control over it is. There was an experiment where they sent electric shocks to a couple of dogs. One of them had a button to make the shocks stop, the other didn't. Though they were submitted to exactly the same shocks, guess which dog was relatively content, and which one was completely depressed?

Humans aren't dogs. We think in larger timeframes. That's why Asuna ventured out - so she could "push the button", even if it took years. It's also why players can turn crazy - even if they win some small victories over the game and can theoretically beat it, it's been years and there's been no change - they're still stuck with no end in sight (doubly do for the non-clearers).
Depression, sure. Unless Kayaba was even more of a genius than we've been led to believe, I don't expect them to like being trapped in there. Because, as you say, being trapped in inherently bad. No one likes options being taken away from them. However, being depressed isn't the same as going crazy and murdering everyone, which is what was implied.

And it's not exactly "no end in sight". Progression through the dungeon is measured in easy-to-understand floor numbers and happens at a steady pace. The players can basically calculate how much longer they'll be in there. It's just an estimate, sure, but knowing when you'll get out is way more comforting than being stuck in there for an indeterminate period of time.

Quote:
Not in the way that matters, then.
The question is "fairness", particularly in the context of PK (ie: being murdered). There's nothing special motivating people to kill each other in game, so the only difference between hanging out in town in SAO and hanging out in town in the real world are the laws we've created and the rules of the game. Laws can be recreated, or rather remembered since most people don't suddenly forget everything they've known about behavior just because they're in a new place, and the game rules of SAO protect you more than the game rules of reality. In that reality never applies an invulnerability flag to anyone in any circumstance.

What "matters" then, for your safety in town is only how other people behave. Some people seem to be acting like this is some kind of dog-eat-dog hellhole where everyone's killing everyone else at the drop of a hat, but that is absolutely not the world we've been presented. Most people are reasonably friendly and even seem to trust each other. Even strangers. It's assumed that everyone wants to get out and the clearers help each other as a matter of course. There are very few people killing each other. Now, I don't mean to downplay that, since you only need a few sociopaths to ruin everyone else's day, but that part's no different from reality.

The game is a death game. That is in fact the entire premise. And, well, being stuck in a death game is bad. I have absolutely never meant to imply anything else. Perhaps some other people were and I got confused with them? All I've tried to say is that it's not some Lord of the Flies hellhole where death is around every corner. It's perfectly possible to live there in reasonable safety if you choose to do so. You're still trapped, but the option is available. Even the sleep-PK exploit simply makes it closer to reality in the particular sense of how safe it is to stay in town.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 14:54   Link #365
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Depression, sure. Unless Kayaba was even more of a genius than we've been led to believe, I don't expect them to like being trapped in there. Because, as you say, being trapped in inherently bad. No one likes options being taken away from them. However, being depressed isn't the same as going crazy and murdering everyone, which is what was implied.
I assume the PKers are outliers.

Quote:
And it's not exactly "no end in sight". Progression through the dungeon is measured in easy-to-understand floor numbers and happens at a steady pace. The players can basically calculate how much longer they'll be in there. It's just an estimate, sure, but knowing when you'll get out is way more comforting than being stuck in there for an indeterminate period of time.
That's if they keep the faith that Kayaba will be true to his word. A lot of them, I think, never had it in the first place - they just believed they'd be freed from the outside. Time would destroy that belief.


Quote:
The question is "fairness", particularly in the context of PK (ie: being murdered). There's nothing special motivating people to kill each other in game, so the only difference between hanging out in town in SAO and hanging out in town in the real world are the laws we've created and the rules of the game. Laws can be recreated, or rather remembered since most people don't suddenly forget everything they've known about behavior just because they're in a new place, and the game rules of SAO protect you more than the game rules of reality. In that reality never applies an invulnerability flag to anyone in any circumstance.

What "matters" then, for your safety in town is only how other people behave. Some people seem to be acting like this is some kind of dog-eat-dog hellhole where everyone's killing everyone else at the drop of a hat, but that is absolutely not the world we've been presented.
I agree it's not that bad. But the mere fact of being trapped is bad enough.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 14:58   Link #366
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That's if they keep the faith that Kayaba will be true to his word. A lot of them, I think, never had it in the first place - they just believed they'd be freed from the outside. Time would destroy that belief.
Hope is hope. Even if you think he was lying, the possibility that he was telling the truth would create a lot of hope.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 15:58   Link #367
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Which is why, among the 10000 players, there's such a variety of reactions. Those who hope. Those who don't. Those who want to act. Those who want to be rescued. And so on.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 18:19   Link #368
Shimapan
Try me! <3
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Simply put, life doesn't have rules.
[mod edit: snip]

Once again, it seems you *have* been living under a rock. Real life *does* have rules, quite a lot of them, actually. They're called "laws". You might already have heard of them (then again, you might not, or you wouldn't write that real life doesn't have any rules).
You should do your best to abide by these rules, the laws, especially the serious ones, like not killing others, or people called "police" will come and lock you up so you can't do even more damage. (It seems you've at least heard of the police once, as you've mentioned it once.)

The game world only has a few game rules, but it doesn't have any laws whatsoever - it's a completely lawless territory. Following, it also doesn't have any law enforcement whatsoever. If you're the victim of a crime (e.g. robbery), tough luck - no one's going to help you, you're completely on your own. There are no deterrents whatsoever for criminals not to commit crimes, and that includes serious crimes like murder as well. What happens when you murder someone else? Nothing, except that your status turns orange for a few days only. Does that have any effect? Not really. People with orange status just band together and are waylaying people, often with the help of green people to lure them in.
There's only the occassional hero (people like Kirito) to do anything at all about people who commit crimes, be it robbery, murder or whatsoever. However, they're apparently very rare, as fighting those bands of criminals is quite dangerous (unless you're a hero like Kirito and are much stronger).

tl;dr: Life in the game is a *huge* deal more unsafe as in real life. To claim that the game is safer than real life is totally asinine.
__________________

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-08-10 at 19:12.
Shimapan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 18:42   Link #369
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
The game world only has a few game rules, but it doesn't have any laws whatsoever - it's a completely lawless territory. Following, it also doesn't have any law enforcement whatsoever. If you're the victim of a crime (e.g. robbery), tough luck - no one's going to help you, you're completely on your own. There are no deterrents whatsoever for criminals not to commit crimes, and that includes serious crimes like murder as well. What happens when you murder someone else? Nothing, except that your status turns orange for a few days only. Does that have any effect? Not really. People with orange status just band together and are waylaying people, often with the help of green people to lure them in.
Actually, it's probably worth pointing out that EP4 points to some hint of a deterrent. The survivor of the PK'ed group hired a front-liner (Kirito) to send the Titan's Hand guild to "Jail" via a gateway crystal keyed to there.

Now, we don't know the particulars... but it's probably not something enforced by the game. Otherwise the green members would simply... well... walk out, they've broken no 'game rules'. Whether or not we'll get anything more than those subtle hints will likely depend on whether PK'ing is an important topic for the rest of the anime.

It's fairly obvious these enforcement notions are not 'system' based, but rather player based. The LN dealt with the notion quite well, but that's a topic for another thread.
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 20:31   Link #370
zaz122
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
[mod edit: snip]

Once again, it seems you *have* been living under a rock. Real life *does* have rules, quite a lot of them, actually. They're called "laws". You might already have heard of them (then again, you might not, or you wouldn't write that real life doesn't have any rules).
You should do your best to abide by these rules, the laws, especially the serious ones, like not killing others, or people called "police" will come and lock you up so you can't do even more damage. (It seems you've at least heard of the police once, as you've mentioned it once.)

The game world only has a few game rules, but it doesn't have any laws whatsoever - it's a completely lawless territory. Following, it also doesn't have any law enforcement whatsoever. If you're the victim of a crime (e.g. robbery), tough luck - no one's going to help you, you're completely on your own. There are no deterrents whatsoever for criminals not to commit crimes, and that includes serious crimes like murder as well. What happens when you murder someone else? Nothing, except that your status turns orange for a few days only. Does that have any effect? Not really. People with orange status just band together and are waylaying people, often with the help of green people to lure them in.
There's only the occassional hero (people like Kirito) to do anything at all about people who commit crimes, be it robbery, murder or whatsoever. However, they're apparently very rare, as fighting those bands of criminals is quite dangerous (unless you're a hero like Kirito and are much stronger).

tl;dr: Life in the game is a *huge* deal more unsafe as in real life. To claim that the game is safer than real life is totally asinine.
But people can break laws in real life. There will be consequences for breaking them, but people CAN break them still. A person can all of a sudden take an automatic weapon to a crowded theater for instance. You are free to break the laws if you want but don't whine about the consequences.

But in SAO, the rules are absolute. For example, you can't open my inn door unless you are on my friends list. You can't kill me unless the damage is equal to or greater than my current HP. You are bound by the limitations of the game rules and unless those are changed they are absolute. There will be as we put it, "Clever use of game mechanics." but those are still obeying the rules of the system albeit in an unintended way.
zaz122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 20:53   Link #371
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaz122 View Post
But in SAO, the rules are absolute. For example, you can't open my inn door unless you are on my friends list. You can't kill me unless the damage is equal to or greater than my current HP. You are bound by the limitations of the game rules and unless those are changed they are absolute. There will be as we put it, "Clever use of game mechanics." but those are still obeying the rules of the system albeit in an unintended way.
...And to try to bring this little debate to close and back to the episode proper (because I really think it's gone around in circles enough times by now), this is exactly why Kirito and Asuna would be willing to leave the front-lines to investigate this possible new exploit. No matter how dangerous the SAO world is, there is some comfort in understanding the "absolutes". So if someone has come up with an exploit that violates the absolutes, it will change the way everyone in SAO lives from now on. In tomorrow's episode, we will see whether the absolutes (or everyone's understanding of the absolutes) have been redefined or not.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-10, 21:32   Link #372
justinstrife
Queen Sheryl's Protector
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: John Galt Railroad
Age: 34
Send a message via AIM to justinstrife Send a message via Skype™ to justinstrife
Call me crazy, but I'd be hard-pressed to turn down a chance to go into a world like SAO. Then again, I always did like living on the edge where danger was at every corner.
justinstrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 01:15   Link #373
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Call me crazy, but I'd be hard-pressed to turn down a chance to go into a world like SAO. Then again, I always did like living on the edge where danger was at every corner.
It would be if there was magic too.
While I don't have anything about realistic games I have sto say that it is particulary unfair in this case as there is no healer class, other than pets(who can use magic )
So you are basically dead once you run out of healing potions.
The funny thing is that the absence of magic is probably due to his sick Kayaba's sick little game.
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 03:46   Link #374
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
No, the lack of magic because this game is explicitly about swords.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 03:47   Link #375
Clarste
Human
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 27
Well, that's what he said in the interview, but I'm pretty sure the "you have to risk your life to fight" factor is a big part of the design choice. Standing behind everyone else and shooting magic doesn't have quite the same visceral feel.
Clarste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 04:05   Link #376
FlameSparkZ
Ambiguous Pokerface
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fighting demons and the like
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
It would be if there was magic too.
While I don't have anything about realistic games I have sto say that it is particulary unfair in this case as there is no healer class, other than pets(who can use magic )
So you are basically dead once you run out of healing potions.
The funny thing is that the absence of magic is probably due to his sick Kayaba's sick little game.
Yeah, but if SAO in "death game mode" had magic and ranged weapons like bows/crossbows, the players would have an advantage against melee monsters...but they would also have to worry about getting killed by monsters with ranged attacks as well...not to mention PKing from snipers and long range magic.

I think that's why Kayaba limited SAO to melee only...so the players would have to face their opponent.
And to avoid being killed from a distance without even knowing what hit you.

...Then again, Yoruko died by that same unfair method
__________________

Last edited by FlameSparkZ; 2012-08-11 at 07:05. Reason: found a "t", put it where it belongs
FlameSparkZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 09:05   Link #377
Arya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Don't know if you already talked about what I'm gonna say, probabilities are high, but anyways here I go.

Well speaking of fairness, I don't know if that was one of his main targets when he designed the SAO world, but Kayaba (is that his name?) tried to make the more fairness virtual world he could, but even realistic. He tried to balance these two aspects.
So I can easily see the fairness to not include ranged weapons just simply to eliminate snipers. Since PK is "on" one high skilled sociopath sniper would be enough to ruin the apparent harmony SAO players built up. It helps even for the friendly fire, in this case fairness won over realism. And if you want to PK'ing you should at least show your face (letting this episode mystery aside).
It's the same for healers. That would have introduced some issues like who would have played healers instead of swordman? Surely the healers would have been outnumbered by sword-men, that could have led healer class gaining some "power" over the rest of the players. And even disparities between parties with or w/o healers. That would go against the "fairness" rule. Instead it's up to you, and you only, how to build up your skills, who meet and whom join with. Everyone has the same potential and you could even choose to follow the loner path like Kirito, path that usually I guess never works in MMO.
Magic would have gone against the true-to-life rule.
And I didn't find surprising that the sleeping PK bug/possibility existed, because well, it fixes the un-real possibility to sleep outside even if in a city. A bit unfair but more realistic.
And the more the players will worry about in-world issues the less they will think about the bigger problem "I'm stuck in a f**ing death game"
That's help one of the big problems Kayaba had to take in account, that the game would not collapse over itself in the long run or even in the short (worst case). I mean, if the stress/shock had eaten the sanity of the majority of the players the game would have been over before it started. But that's a persistent problem given the nature of the game. So he had to chose carefully what include and what not in the game to give enough pressure to the players, but not too much. But even take care of the potential "butterfly effect" of the actions the players could do in the game.

for tl:dr the fairness and true-to-life aspects of the game are not meant for the players safety, but for game itself self-preservation. Kayaba had only one shot, so he had to be overcareful avoiding to screw it up just because, well, magic is cool.
__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
Arya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 11:19   Link #378
styr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 28
They still could have balanced range weapons/magic, if the author had implemented a fair system, ala LoL's skillshots that fire slow to medium speed projectiles that have long range but are easy to dodge. Considering how sword skills give players faster than humanly possible speeds/capabilities, the author/Kayaba really fell short on delivering a balanced MMO.

Heals also could be incorporated into a skillshot and smart enemies would steal the heal from the intended target. Alas, SAO is a melee weapon only game except for a certain skill. How Kirito was able to use that skill during ep1, I'll never know. Must've been magic.
styr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 11:21   Link #379
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by styr View Post
. Considering how sword skills give players faster than humanly possible speeds/capabilities, the author/Kayaba really fell short on delivering a balanced MMO.
No, he failed to deliver a MMO with ranged attacks that matter. But that was never his aim in the first place.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-08-11, 11:38   Link #380
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
Think of it this way, your senses are being fooled into thinking you're physically in that world. What better thrill than to get up close and personal? I think that was the designers' intent.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.