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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 43
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 1 2.86%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 2 5.71%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 9 25.71%
7 out of 10: Good... 11 31.43%
6 out of 10: Average... 3 8.57%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 4 11.43%
4 out of 10: Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10: Bad... 2 5.71%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 3 8.57%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-08-05, 10:03   Link #21
ReddyRedWolf
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Well these Vegans are afraid of death. Unlike those zombies at Ambat. If Fram is right about Zeheart valuing his soldier's lives he likely rescinded the suicide orders that has been in place since the beginning of the war.

Flit left the decision to Algreaus as he is the commander not Flit. Algreaus made a "take the third option" using the photon blaster of the Diva. He seems to imply it was part of Flit's plan.

Take the base they win, lose the base blow it up. Seric was a slick negotiator.

Asemu was right on the Second Moon coming to Earth. As someone sai there is a possibility of a Colony Drop depending the crazy Ezelcant has.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
If there are any doubts that Flit meant business when he said he wanted to exterminate the Vagans, this episode he tried to shoot a disabled Zeheart and Fram in the back as they were retreating. That's the lowest
It only lost one arm, still has weapons and mobile. Disabled would be nothing working like what happened to Decil.

Shooting at a retreating military enemy is acceptable, to prevent them to rally back.

It is shooting during an agreed ceasefire that is wrong. Kio manage to convince Flit not to shoot.
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Old 2012-08-05, 10:34   Link #22
Yusei Fudo
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Originally Posted by kiak666 View Post
WTH did Girard just do?
Spoiler for X-Rounder Destroyer Mode???:
Oh now they copy Unicorn Gundam =w=;
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Old 2012-08-05, 10:45   Link #23
Meltyred
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Algreaus is probably looking at Flit during his more cool headed Commander days, which is why he believes it is Flit's plan (considering he is like his protege, and Flit in Gen 2 gave very insightful orders which got the job done.)

Rather now, Flit probably is still partially sane, although he loses his calm on the battlefield more as a old man. Which, is why at most times he doesn't speak much, but he snaps quite a lot recently, due to his own son and grandson angering him with their difference in ideals, and he loses his rational judgement.
He isn't out of control though, because he still shows concern over his family even while fighting.
He could either snap completely, or return to the more cool headed attitude he has after having another talk with his family.

On the other hand, Asemu really felt left out during the X rounder squabbles.
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Old 2012-08-05, 10:54   Link #24
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltyred View Post
Algreaus is probably looking at Flit during his more cool headed Commander days, which is why he believes it is Flit's plan (considering he is like his protege, and Flit in Gen 2 gave very insightful orders which got the job done.)

Rather now, Flit probably is still partially sane, although he loses his calm on the battlefield more as a old man. Which, is why at most times he doesn't speak much, but he snaps quite a lot recently, due to his own son and grandson angering him with their difference in ideals, and he loses his rational judgement.
He isn't out of control though, because he still shows concern over his family even while fighting.
He could either snap completely, or return to the more cool headed attitude he has after having another talk with his family.

On the other hand, Asemu really felt left out during the X rounder squabbles.
He always wanted to exterminate the Veigan, the only reason he " snaps " is because people are talking back to him now, which they didnt during the second gen since he was the commander in chief. He has spent his entire life losing people and ground to the Veigan, of course he has a short temper when his grandson wants to turn into a pacifist.

And not to mention his son ran off to become a pirate!

And he never had any rational thinking when it came to the Veigan's to begin with
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Old 2012-08-05, 11:05   Link #25
gundamdrawer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltyred View Post
Algreaus is probably looking at Flit during his more cool headed Commander days, which is why he believes it is Flit's plan (considering he is like his protege, and Flit in Gen 2 gave very insightful orders which got the job done.)

Rather now, Flit probably is still partially sane, although he loses his calm on the battlefield more as a old man. Which, is why at most times he doesn't speak much, but he snaps quite a lot recently, due to his own son and grandson angering him with their difference in ideals, and he loses his rational judgement.
He isn't out of control though, because he still shows concern over his family even while fighting.
He could either snap completely, or return to the more cool headed attitude he has after having another talk with his family.

On the other hand, Asemu really felt left out during the X rounder squabbles.

Yeah Asemu was really left out but atleast it was shown that he could actually disable/kill girard if only zeheart wasn't on his way. Super pilot FTW

Kio is really so irritating now >< It seems that if you wan't a bad ass suit's potential to be wasted (Age-3, Age-FX) then let Kio be the pilot. Atleast Age-3 was shown to be used as a fighting machine, the Age-FX on the other hand is being used like an MS sized megaphone. Kio shouldn't be a pilot, he should be a rallyist. ><

Flit and Asemu FTW!! Kicking ass while using old mobile suits!
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Old 2012-08-05, 11:29   Link #26
larethian
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Asem needs a protag-of-the-arc award. Not only the fact that he's holding his own amid all the X-rounder enemies, he doesn't make me facepalm as much as Flit and Kio.

I think what Algreus said was merely trying to remove his own doubts and convince himself about what he believed about Flit, rather than an indication that it was truly Flit's plan.
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:10   Link #27
houkoholic
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Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
If there are any doubts that Flit meant business when he said he wanted to exterminate the Vagans, this episode he tried to shoot a disabled Zeheart and Fram in the back as they were retreating. That's the lowest I've seen a Gundam protagonist go.
Either you haven't seen many Gundam shows or you are just spewing your usual Flit-hate BS. Just off the top of my head I can already think of Amuro whom was dead set on killing Char when all that was left was the Zeong's head and Char was retreating back in the original Gundam. Pretty sure Kamiyu took a lot of pot shots at Jerrid - King of Retreat of the Gundam universe - and Yazan, in Zeta Gundam too. Most of the time it took either Char, Bright or Emma to call Kamiyu off the chase.

Also attacking retreating enemies is a perfectly reasonable strategic move - it's actually taught way back in The Art of War in regards to when to give chase and when not to. Nothing low about it, especially if the other person is like Zeheart which is the commander, that makes him a high value target that could potentially mean more lifes being saved when you strike him down thus heavily damaging the enemies battle capacity by breaking their chain of command, could even potentially get the remaining soldiers to surrender. The pacifist stance of letting your enemy commander - whom is not going to surrender - regroup is actually the poorer choice here.
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:14   Link #28
Vsin
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Originally Posted by casval cehack View Post
If they only had merged Shanalua's and Reina's storyline...
It makes too much sense, that's why they didn't do it.

...seriously, merging those two wouldn't exactly be the hardest thing ever. Just have Shanalua defect where she dies, then re-intro her later on. Heck, you can have both Girard and The Sister at the same time too.

I also didn't expect Reina to get instagibbed. I mean seriously, writing in a character with backstory but no development for the purpose of getting killed off? Then again, Papaya also has green hair...
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:32   Link #29
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
If there are any doubts that Flit meant business when he said he wanted to exterminate the Vagans, this episode he tried to shoot a disabled Zeheart and Fram in the back as they were retreating. That's the lowest I've seen a Gundam protagonist go.
I love how you pick things apart and ignore everything else that contradicts it in your BS quest to villanify Flit.

As Rau in SEED once said, "if you let your enemies run away, they'll come back with even bigger guns and attack you."

Aside from other Gundam series, we see the same thing by the Vagans and the Federation suits so what makes Flit so special that you single him out on that? Heck a Clanche took a shot at a disabled Vagan suit and would've died if Kio had not put his bits in to protect the guy.

On that matter what a huge waste of a character in Girrad. What the hell is up with the writers? And the fact that it was a Vagan sabotage lessens the impact on the Federation part as that makes the officer justified in covering up the events so they can continue. Granted he was being an ass about it but that doesn't make it better for Renai to just go off like that.

And Kio....what the hell man. This war isn't about understanding, it's being caused by a crazed maniac whose deluding his own people into following him. Reveal the truth to them will have a lot more impact than just preaching "understanding." Hell this isn't Gundam 00.
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:34   Link #30
Yusei Fudo
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Hell this isn't Gundam 00.
^this lolz

Kio going Kira Yamato and Celestial Being but it won't work in this series!

Spoiler for Ep44:
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:40   Link #31
galdr
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Even in 00, understanding didn't become that bad until the movie. CB still cut down A-Laws and Innovators without any hesitation.

I pray Grandpa Flit able to fulfil his long-life dream of extermination.
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:43   Link #32
Yusei Fudo
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Originally Posted by galdr View Post
Even in 00, understanding didn't become that bad until the movie. CB still cut down A-Laws and Innovators without any hesitation.

I pray Grandpa Flit able to fulfil his long-life dream of extermination.
More like inb4 Flit dies and he sees Yurin greeting him from the heaven and he turns back into his 15yr old look and he goes flying to Yurin and they hug.

Then Emily will sense it and go =.=?!!!!
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Old 2012-08-05, 12:51   Link #33
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galdr View Post
Even in 00, understanding didn't become that bad until the movie. CB still cut down A-Laws and Innovators without any hesitation.

I pray Grandpa Flit able to fulfil his long-life dream of extermination.
For the record the understanding part was on a mass scale where people were led one way or another through misunderstanding (They all had their own reasons). It was only when they finally confronted each other they were able to make amends because they really weren't following Ribbons on some ideal.

And the war with the aliens was an actual misunderstanding part.

In Gundam AGE? The Vagans are all gung ho to their deaths following some stupid destiny-copy plan. What the hell does understanding each other have to do with that? It's like Kio has his own writer that's following his own storyline from the other writers.

Asemu again gets points for actually trying to do that. His argument holds weight because it actually has the "why" and not just "do it"

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2012-08-05 at 13:01.
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Old 2012-08-05, 13:07   Link #34
Liquidzero
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Originally Posted by Yusei Fudo View Post
More like inb4 Flit dies and he sees Yurin greeting him from the heaven and he turns back into his 15yr old look and he goes flying to Yurin and they hug.

Then Emily will sense it and go =.=?!!!!
oh emily you won in the end, but did you really win?
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Old 2012-08-05, 13:43   Link #35
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by galdr View Post
Even in 00, understanding didn't become that bad until the movie. CB still cut down A-Laws and Innovators without any hesitation.

I pray Grandpa Flit able to fulfil his long-life dream of extermination.
Even Kira knew to disable his opponent BEFORE trying to talk to them. Or even put a stop to them period when they are out of control.
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Last edited by cyberdemon; 2012-08-05 at 14:08.
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Old 2012-08-05, 14:04   Link #36
ReddyRedWolf
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I find it interesting the impression of the Vegan base XO of the Fed Forces and of the Fed Forces of itself.

Vegans can't fathom the Feds has the balls to use WMD, much more if their own guys get killed in the process.

The Feds are squeezy in using WMD even if it is a military target.

This leads the Vegans belief that the despised Federation will always play nice.

Now they are willing to use WMD as a deterrent and lose expendable soldiers in the process.

Now Vegans are scared as this isn't just conventional warfare anymore. Even if they are the ones who frequently use Colony Destroyers and Plasma bombs.

That is how a stalemate is being achieved not Asemu's attack everybody and hope they loose interest as the war drags on.
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Old 2012-08-05, 14:09   Link #37
SoldierOfDarkness
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I find it weird that they value their life so much.

I mean in G1 it was said they don't fear death. Hence they didn't even leave their posts as Ambat was destroyed.

How the hell did they become pansies all of a sudden?
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Old 2012-08-05, 14:29   Link #38
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post

It only lost one arm, still has weapons and mobile. Disabled would be nothing working like what happened to Decil.

Shooting at a retreating military enemy is acceptable, to prevent them to rally back.

It is shooting during an agreed ceasefire that is wrong. Kio manage to convince Flit not to shoot.
They had no intention of fighting anymore and were withdrawing, what he wanted to do was was a dick move any way you look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Either you haven't seen many Gundam shows or you are just spewing your usual Flit-hate BS. Just off the top of my head I can already think of Amuro whom was dead set on killing Char when all that was left was the Zeong's head and Char was retreating back in the original Gundam. Pretty sure Kamiyu took a lot of pot shots at Jerrid - King of Retreat of the Gundam universe - and Yazan, in Zeta Gundam too. Most of the time it took either Char, Bright or Emma to call Kamiyu off the chase.

Also attacking retreating enemies is a perfectly reasonable strategic move - it's actually taught way back in The Art of War in regards to when to give chase and when not to. Nothing low about it, especially if the other person is like Zeheart which is the commander, that makes him a high value target that could potentially mean more lifes being saved when you strike him down thus heavily damaging the enemies battle capacity by breaking their chain of command, could even potentially get the remaining soldiers to surrender. The pacifist stance of letting your enemy commander - whom is not going to surrender - regroup is actually the poorer choice here.
Leave it to you and a few others to try to justify the unjustifiable. First it was genocide, apparently that was ok, and now it's trying to shoot people in the back who have no intention of fighting back.

Go rewatch MSG, the Zeong head was still firing back at Amuro, Zeheart and Fram weren't shooting back at all. Flit intended to shoot them in the back like a coward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I love how you pick things apart and ignore everything else that contradicts it in your BS quest to villanify Flit.

As Rau in SEED once said, "if you let your enemies run away, they'll come back with even bigger guns and attack you."

Aside from other Gundam series, we see the same thing by the Vagans and the Federation suits so what makes Flit so special that you single him out on that? Heck a Clanche took a shot at a disabled Vagan suit and would've died if Kio had not put his bits in to protect the guy.

On that matter what a huge waste of a character in Girrad. What the hell is up with the writers? And the fact that it was a Vagan sabotage lessens the impact on the Federation part as that makes the officer justified in covering up the events so they can continue. Granted he was being an ass about it but that doesn't make it better for Renai to just go off like that.

And Kio....what the hell man. This war isn't about understanding, it's being caused by a crazed maniac whose deluding his own people into following him. Reveal the truth to them will have a lot more impact than just preaching "understanding." Hell this isn't Gundam 00.
I'm not trying to vilify Flit, the show has already done a good job of that.

Using Rau as your example does not help your point, Rau was insane and wanted to destroy humanity, of course he wouldn't mind shooting defenseless soldiers. Why don't you use Kira and Athrun as examples instead? When Genesis fired, the Earth Alliance retreated and Zaft chased them down and started to shoot them as they were retreating. Kira and Athrun disabled all the ZAFT units and protected the EA saying that it wasn't fair to shoot those who had no intention of shooting back.

You guys can keep white knighting Flit all you want, the facts are there and they indicate FLit is not a bastion of morality and righteousness.
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Old 2012-08-05, 14:38   Link #39
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I find it weird that they value their life so much.

I mean in G1 it was said they don't fear death. Hence they didn't even leave their posts as Ambat was destroyed.

How the hell did they become pansies all of a sudden?
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel so not that much indoctrination anymore?

Or my personal theory Zeheart rescinded the suicide tactics as field commander in this generation after loosing so much of his soldiers and sacrificing his on brother.

Lets take two earlier cases. Gerra Zoi and Medel Zant.

Gerra Zoi die spewing that his soul will go to Earth citing it is what Ezelcant said.

Medel Zant die with a vision of Eden. A vision we know as fake made up by Ezelcant's X-Rounder projection.

With earlier generations I'd say some propaganda and brainwashing is involved. Decil may have been an experiment that went deranged at an early age. Similar to Reina Spriggan.

We know that Mu-zell helmets have bad side effects on non X-Rounders and causes brain damage. All the Vagan military have them.

We also know Zeheart values his soldiers health.

My guess less active Mu-zell helmets less crazy and suicidal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
They had no intention of fighting anymore and were withdrawing, what he wanted to do was was a dick move any way you look at it.
What you believe there is a knightly code in warfare that says Thou shall not attack a retreating enemy?

Heck in the middle ages retreats become routs.

War is not a fight between kids that says quits at the end of the day it is fight to finish off the opposing military force ensuring they are crippled militarily and you win decisively.

Because if you let a retreating enemy go fairly intact it means they are going to rally back their strength and go at it again.

What Flit did wrong was try to shoot during a ceasefire. Or are you not familiar with what a ceasefire is?

Last edited by ReddyRedWolf; 2012-08-05 at 14:53.
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Old 2012-08-05, 14:42   Link #40
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Either you haven't seen many Gundam shows or you are just spewing your usual Flit-hate BS. Just off the top of my head I can already think of Amuro whom was dead set on killing Char when all that was left was the Zeong's head and Char was retreating back in the original Gundam. Pretty sure Kamiyu took a lot of pot shots at Jerrid - King of Retreat of the Gundam universe - and Yazan, in Zeta Gundam too. Most of the time it took either Char, Bright or Emma to call Kamiyu off the chase.

Also attacking retreating enemies is a perfectly reasonable strategic move - it's actually taught way back in The Art of War in regards to when to give chase and when not to. Nothing low about it, especially if the other person is like Zeheart which is the commander, that makes him a high value target that could potentially mean more lifes being saved when you strike him down thus heavily damaging the enemies battle capacity by breaking their chain of command, could even potentially get the remaining soldiers to surrender. The pacifist stance of letting your enemy commander - whom is not going to surrender - regroup is actually the poorer choice here.
Yep once you step foot on the battlefield all bets are off as to having a way to leave. Plus some people seem to be forgetting retreat /= surrender. As for people not having seen many gundam shows, its either that or people just have a really selective and context specific memory when it comes to recalling what happened in them.
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