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Old 2013-06-16, 13:07   Link #1981
Vinz55
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAlucid View Post
This has probably been brought up before; but I wouldn't be surprised if Brune's culture holds bows in such low regard precisely because of the Black bow. I wouldn't doubt that Tigre is related to the original wielder, and that his family either fled, or was reduced, to a small earldom because of some past atrocity.
The black bow is related to the Vanadis' Dragonic tools (if not the chief of them outright). And from what we know, only the chosen Vanadis can use their respective tools. So Tigre is either chosen by the bow or he is the direct descendant of the first Black Dragon incarnation.

With that said, the bow is different from the tools in many ways so none of those restrictions might matter. I'm more in favor of the chosen theory. Just my preference because I like to see Tigre gets all 7 Vanadis because he can and not because he's meant to be.
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Old 2013-06-16, 21:05   Link #1982
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Well...we know every single vanadis and princess will be in tigre harem...he will be king of the continent...it's just when and how
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Old 2013-06-16, 22:48   Link #1983
noobarta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinz55 View Post
The black bow is related to the Vanadis' Dragonic tools (if not the chief of them outright). And from what we know, only the chosen Vanadis can use their respective tools. So Tigre is either chosen by the bow or he is the direct descendant of the first Black Dragon incarnation.

With that said, the bow is different from the tools in many ways so none of those restrictions might matter. I'm more in favor of the chosen theory. Just my preference because I like to see Tigre gets all 7 Vanadis because he can and not because he's meant to be.
I agree that the bow is different from the other tools, however it never mentioned that Tigre was a direct descendant of the black dragon king. Remember in vol 1 when Lim talked about it near the end. They mentioned that the story of the bow and "Madan no Ou, king of the magic bullet" is even older than the black dragon king

My guess is that they just kind of resonate with each other or the draconic tools can communicate with each other. I really do like the previous theory someone posted before where the draconic tools may actually be real dragons (dragon kings?) in the form of a weapon. It would explain a lot of stuff like how they're sentient and choose their own masters, control elements, can change length/size for a few
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Old 2013-06-17, 05:37   Link #1984
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Guys..................don't go around mixing Valentina and Elizavetta.
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Old 2013-06-17, 07:47   Link #1985
Hemisphere
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The Black Bow's wielder is rare as butts. Super rare, like golden butts rare. And by wielder, they mean someone who can access its power.

Ganelon has commented on how strange it was for a wielder of the Bow to appear after all this time (unlike Durandal/Viralt wielders). The demons also seem conflicted between killing Tigre (and leaving the bow without the wielder, and facing the risk of dying from the Bow's power), or leaving the Bow (and it's wielder) be (and facing the risk of fighting the Bow's wielder later on).

Tir na Fa's comment about Tigre and the Black Bow's previous wielder, as well as Ganelon's lines about the Black Bow, implies that the user of the bow is not just determined by bloodline; otherwise, why would the second wielder of the bow take this long to appear.

The connections between Tir na Fa's bow and the Viralts are still vague; considering that the Gods and Dragons had a great war with the side of the Dragons having the advantage, it would be odd to have a Godly weapon considered superior over Dragonic weapons.
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Old 2013-06-17, 08:40   Link #1986
setsuna86
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Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
The Black Bow's wielder is rare as butts. Super rare, like golden butts rare. And by wielder, they mean someone who can access its power.

Ganelon has commented on how strange it was for a wielder of the Bow to appear after all this time (unlike Durandal/Viralt wielders). The demons also seem conflicted between killing Tigre (and leaving the bow without the wielder, and facing the risk of dying from the Bow's power), or leaving the Bow (and it's wielder) be (and facing the risk of fighting the Bow's wielder later on).

Tir na Fa's comment about Tigre and the Black Bow's previous wielder, as well as Ganelon's lines about the Black Bow, implies that the user of the bow is not just determined by bloodline; otherwise, why would the second wielder of the bow take this long to appear.

The connections between Tir na Fa's bow and the Viralts are still vague; considering that the Gods and Dragons had a great war with the side of the Dragons having the advantage, it would be odd to have a Godly weapon considered superior over Dragonic weapons.
You said that there's no 'blood Relations'. So how and why did the 'black bow' become the heirloom of Tigre's House?
I think there should only be one possible answer: 'because it transmitted from Generation to Generation (since the Generation of the first wielder'.
Conclusion: the first wielder of the black bow is Tigre's ancestor (blood relations). Which refutes your Argument.

On the other Hand, speaking of Tir na Fa, she does not figure in the Pantheons of gods of Brune (and Zchted). Why? I don't know. But I'm sure that due to something happened in the past with the first wielder of the bow, she was denied and removed from the gods Pantheons.
Something like that. Sorry if I did not well explain.
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Old 2013-06-17, 09:34   Link #1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setsuna86 View Post
You said that there's no 'blood Relations'. So how and why did the 'black bow' become the heirloom of Tigre's House?
I think there should only be one possible answer: 'because it transmitted from Generation to Generation (since the Generation of the first wielder'.
Conclusion: the first wielder of the black bow is Tigre's ancestor (blood relations). Which refutes your Argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
implies that the user of the bow is not just determined by bloodline
Notice the "not just" clause, in which I meant to say that bloodline was not the main element of determination, but also some other possible, yet-unknown element might be involved.

Quote:
On the other Hand, speaking of Tir na Fa, she does not figure in the Pantheons of gods of Brune (and Zchted). Why? I don't know. But I'm sure that due to something happened in the past with the first wielder of the bow, she was denied and removed from the gods Pantheons.
Something like that. Sorry if I did not well explain.
To put it in analogy, it's like Greek religion and the way they treat Hades.
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Old 2013-06-17, 09:56   Link #1988
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Well in a way it's worse. At least Hades and his crew get acknowledged for being the ones to pick you out for a chat at the end of the River Styx.

Tir Na Fa is more of a goddess that has been intentionally forgotten, wiped from memory and denied worship. (But I suppose we both know what's the usual deal with gods who have been long forgotten...)
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Old 2013-06-17, 10:04   Link #1989
Hemisphere
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She does have one freaky sense of humor. I like her for that. The part where she tells Tigre how he can contact her stands out in my mind (mound of corpses, full moon). Maybe that's what got her into trouble with the other gods, they just couldn't take her black humor!

...I'll show myself the way out, no need to point to the door.

(I actually like how sassy Tir na Fa comes off during her (one-sided) conversations with Tigre)
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Old 2013-06-17, 10:47   Link #1990
TheAlucid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinz55 View Post
The black bow is related to the Vanadis' Dragonic tools (if not the chief of them outright). And from what we know, only the chosen Vanadis can use their respective tools. So Tigre is either chosen by the bow or he is the direct descendant of the first Black Dragon incarnation.

With that said, the bow is different from the tools in many ways so none of those restrictions might matter. I'm more in favor of the chosen theory. Just my preference because I like to see Tigre gets all 7 Vanadis because he can and not because he's meant to be.
I don't know, it seemed to me that the Black Bow has a distinctly different creation story from the Draconic Tools; and seems more of a weapon associated with life and the goddesses whereas the draconic tools are associated with elements and dragons.

The bow also doesn't seem to augment Tigre's strength like the draconic tools do for their wielders. The bow from what we've seen so far seems to consume the life force of the wielder for powerful bow attacks.
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Old 2013-06-17, 10:54   Link #1991
TheAlucid
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Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Well in a way it's worse. At least Hades and his crew get acknowledged for being the ones to pick you out for a chat at the end of the River Styx.

Tir Na Fa is more of a goddess that has been intentionally forgotten, wiped from memory and denied worship. (But I suppose we both know what's the usual deal with gods who have been long forgotten...)
Sorry to double post, but I think this is again related in no small part to some past atrocity committed with the bow.

That at some point in the past, when the black bow was more widely recognized, an ancestor of Tigre's had done something horrible with it; which in turn might've caused the stigma against bows in Brine and scrubbed Tir Na Fa's name from the pantheon.
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Old 2013-06-17, 11:29   Link #1992
ta2666
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Is it possible that tir na fa is some sort of dragon queen or dragon god. That could explain why she can draw forth power from the viralt
Ok just got to the end of number 3 and it turns out this is most probably wrong

Last edited by ta2666; 2013-06-17 at 15:23.
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Old 2013-06-17, 17:36   Link #1993
peinmaximus@
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hey guys,you think that tir na fa can join in tigre harem?
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Old 2013-06-17, 18:24   Link #1994
HasNoLove
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maybe tir na fa is just a godness who conquared dragon tribe, and ruled over 'em....
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Old 2013-06-17, 23:59   Link #1995
TheAlucid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta2666 View Post
Is it possible that tir na fa is some sort of dragon queen or dragon god. That could explain why she can draw forth power from the viralt
Ok just got to the end of number 3 and it turns out this is most probably wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by HasNoLove View Post
maybe tir na fa is just a godness who conquared dragon tribe, and ruled over 'em....
The mural in the 'Sacred Caverns of the Palace' depicted a goddess with a bow and a quiver that Tigre didn't recognize, as stipulates that because bows are so taboo in Brune all statues depicting said goddess with bows had been destroyed.

That particular scene was of the three goddesses trying to control the three-headed dragon, and so it might be safe to assume the bow can be used somehow to control dragons; aside from the bow being associated with Tir Na Fa though it seems like the goddess of storms heeds the prayers of Tigre so he might be some kind of champion of the goddesses?

The bow's association with the three-headed dragon may not be positive from Zhcted's perspective either; seeing as how the Vanadis considered the two-headed dragon some abhorrent abomination.

That being said, both Brune and Zhcted worship the same pantheon.
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Old 2013-06-20, 09:30   Link #1996
setsuna86
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Hier are the links of ch5 and epilogue. Sorry if there are some mistakes, I did not read it over (busy period). And as usual I'm counting on Editors.

Spoiler for chapter 5:


Spoiler for Epilogue:
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Old 2013-06-20, 09:52   Link #1997
Quol
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Can anyone give a description on each of the Vanadis' personalities, I read the Novel and i'm just curious on how other people see them.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:35   Link #1998
Ken Sanders
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Thanks for the hard work setsuna.

Appreciate the efforts.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:39   Link #1999
cramped
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Seems like there is nothing for me to do here this time, thus said I am off.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:59   Link #2000
azziz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setsuna86 View Post
Hier are the links of ch5 and epilogue. Sorry if there are some mistakes, I did not read it over (busy period). And as usual I'm counting on Editors.

Spoiler for chapter 5:


Spoiler for Epilogue:
Tank you,take a good rest,now.
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