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Old 2013-08-12, 14:18   Link #2661
Rasen
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Originally Posted by borisdrakoni View Post
I should think Tigre's willingness to protect Regin from the forces of Thenardier and Ganelon would serve as proof enough of his good will, however that does not automatically equate to friendship between them. Setting aside Regin's own developing feelings, Tigre said himself that he and the "prince" were never close, and did not particularly seem to care much on hearing the news of his death way back in volume 1. This did not change overmuch even after Regin revealed her identity.
Agreed, that he and the Prince were not particularly close in the past. And this is reflected in his reaction after Regin revealed her identity. But that has no bearing on whether he starts to develop feelings (friendly or romantic) afterwards.

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Going out of their way to prove her identity served a coldly logical and highly practical purpose. Firstly, it would have provided legitimacy to Tigre's cause. At the time he had been branded a traitor and enemy of the state, but if he is protecting and acting for the sake of a direct member of the royalty then the equation changes entirely. There was a possibility of receiving allies and aid that just didn't exist while he was acting independently.
I would agree, except that they kept Regin's identity a secret except from those in command. By choosing to not announce who she was and what they were doing, they are unable to claim any sort of "legitimacy," at least until they actually find proof of Regin's heritage.

Also, Tigre already has some legitimacy in the form of heroism and patriotism (though it was really more the byproduct of his protecting Alsace). He repelled the Muozinel forces while greatly outnumbered. This is also the reason all those other Brune knights joined up.

And again, once the hostilities started between him and Thernadier, the need for "legitimacy" could have been put off until after he buried Thernadier.

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Also, there was the very real danger of Thenardier and Ganelon allying themselves again once they found out Regin was alive. Regardless of having two Vanadis on his side, Tigre's army at the time would have undoubtedly been crushed if faced with a unified front of the country's two most powerful nobles. Thus proving her identity as soon as possible to get more help is perfectly reasonable.
That's one interpretation. However, if he was really afraid of the two teaming up, a different move would have been to either kill Regin or fake her death. If anything, choosing to prove that Regin is the princess is more likely to make the two cooperate. Both before and after proof is found, because her living is proof of their treachery.

Also, I have to reiterate the problem that comes with bureaucracy and self-interest. While the more neutral factions will be debating whether or not Tigre is lying with his proof, Ganelon and Thernadier will both KNOW it's true, so will take action immediately. There's even a possible outcome where the more neutral factions are disappointed with how the King crumbled after Regin's "death," and how he makes the country appear weak, so they might actually PREFER siding with Ganelon and Thernadier. Especially how since between the two Dukes, the majority of military power in Brune is controlled by them. (Massas's estimation has Thernadier at 30%, Ganelon at 30%, and 40% for EVERYONE else. And of those 40%, 3/4 are the knights who protect the borders. Which means it's basically 6 to 1 against Tigre, even IF all the other nobles united under Tigre.)

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One final point that I think is being overlooked is the death of Steid during the failed attempt at proving Regin's heritage. He was an extremely capable commander for Thenardier, to the point where Thenardier admits that even without the dragons, had he still been alive then he could have likely won.
That's harder to prove. Steid is a capable commander, but anything about winning a war is just speculation on the part of Thernadier. Tigre has Massas, Lim, Ellen and Mira as far as capable commanders go.

And while Steid's death was beneficial, there's no way that was part of the motivation for going to look for Regin's proof. Thus, it cannot be a factor into the decision-making process of Tigre.

Last edited by Rasen; 2013-08-12 at 14:33.
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Old 2013-08-12, 15:08   Link #2662
borisdrakoni
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I'll admit, my third premise is more of a side comment regarding the author's plot devices.

The problem with trying to define Tigre's motivations is that his own selfishness is tied up almost entirely with acting for the sake of others. Since he is already prepared go so far as to lay down his life for perfect strangers if he deems them to be in need, it becomes that much more difficult to gauge his actions based on any special affections he might hold for one particular individual. This is double the case for Regin, who, with the exception of Sasha, has so far received the least interactions with him. Besides establishing the customary physical attraction flag during the bathing scene, they only speak a handful or so of times before Tigre returns to Zhcted, and most of that time in the presence of others, so we as readers can't do much more than speculate at how things are developing.
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Old 2013-08-12, 16:17   Link #2663
Flying Dagger
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Don't forget Valentina who sneaked a peek at Tigre's sleeping face and went through a lot of trouble trying to meet him (only to have Sasha mess up her plans)!
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Old 2013-08-13, 00:38   Link #2664
Leonardunitylim
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Don't forget Valentina who sneaked a peek at Tigre's sleeping face and went through a lot of trouble trying to meet him (only to have Sasha mess up her plans)!
Bewb grab :P anyways, I am too lazy to debate or discuss about tigre's actions whether is it correct or politically correct or wrong. I shall blame the author in killing off batran :P
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Old 2013-08-13, 01:06   Link #2665
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Valentina. I wonder what her next move will be.
I love how she has a big ambition. More twist to the story is certainly wonderful.
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Old 2013-08-13, 02:26   Link #2666
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o.o I hadn't noticed this series had progressed this far.
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Old 2013-08-13, 08:25   Link #2667
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o.o I hadn't noticed this series had progressed this far.
i even don't know what's happening so far, I just read the latest chapter of the manga and it was appearance of another vanadis
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Old 2013-08-13, 10:41   Link #2668
Ramero
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After reading Volume 6.. I start to note that Tigre can gain trust for many Factions...

On Navarre (If i recalled it correctly) are the Mercenaries trusting him
During his early POW he gain trust from Ellen
It seems Tigre's influence is way spreading naturally and makes him a natural born leader, many volume already telling his provement of being a natural leader.
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Old 2013-08-13, 13:10   Link #2669
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still... no one would believe that a mere Master Ranger (well, he technically is since his mastery with the bow and of his fieldcraft) could gain such a massive alliance, hell even having contacts to rulers such as Regin at Brune and even impressing other rulers like the King and the Vanadis.

he could freakin form his own PMC with this....

also, he COULD go for the open end in which his offspring will be with the girls who liek him hard. hey who knows maybe some of them might be rangers like their father or strategists or what.
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Old 2013-08-13, 20:06   Link #2670
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I tried not to ask this for a long time but.. did someone already begin translating vol 7 for BT?
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Old 2013-08-13, 20:12   Link #2671
Ramero
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still... no one would believe that a mere Master Ranger (well, he technically is since his mastery with the bow and of his fieldcraft) could gain such a massive alliance, hell even having contacts to rulers such as Regin at Brune and even impressing other rulers like the King and the Vanadis.

he could freakin form his own PMC with this....

also, he COULD go for the open end in which his offspring will be with the girls who liek him hard. hey who knows maybe some of them might be rangers like their father or strategists or what.
But there is a quote that always questioned me. It's about Marietta from Yggdra Unions quote.

"Nation shall be ruled not through might, but wisdom"

Tigre probably is the example that he was not driven himself through lust of power, instead he will use the power of Black Bow when it was necessary. He also considering every strategy wants to end the war fast and trying to minimize the number of casualty.

Even Tigre is still ruler of Alsace unofficialy, he came with good purposes on every Kingdom and so many High Ranked people trusting him because of his decision that was not undertaken lightly.
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Old 2013-08-13, 21:20   Link #2672
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I think the opposite is going on: the founding of a nation relies on might, but ruling one requires wisdom. At times of chaos, the most important aspect is to survive and have the power to protect those who challenge you. Taking a peek in history: a lot of "heroes" are praised for their military conquest, and not their ability to rule their nation.

Not saying you can have one without the other, but I think in Tigre's case, his successes are built upon might. Not only personal might but also military might (with a lot of help from Lim). He tries to stand on a moral solid ground for his campaign.

I consider wisdom is something he initially lacked (politically speaking it seem the older generations form the backbone). In my eyes he is still a developing ruler who is still gaining experience. His little journey in v6 and 7 allow him to open his eyes a little. At one point of he will have to start thinking things in a much bigger picture, and just think "this is what I want to achieve and that is how I am going to reach my goal".

As a shonen novel the novel would not point out possible political failures in Tigre's part. For a regular peasant in Brune, the concept of your country relying the assistance of your neighbor, as well as having to yield precious land to them is still a hard pill to swallow despite it ending the civil war (and the land deal was purely strategical). Tigre also doesn't have to deal with the chaos after a cival war: things like, new nobles trying to raise to power, take advantage of the weakened state, military and economy wise. (You can compare her with Ellen who push to benefit from her contribution, and try to gain long term benefits such as establishing a new trade route - ofc, whoever operated the previous route... forgot who... might not be too happy about it, but once again the novel wouldn't/haven't mentioned something like that yet)
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Old 2013-08-13, 22:24   Link #2673
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
I think the opposite is going on: the founding of a nation relies on might, but ruling one requires wisdom. At times of chaos, the most important aspect is to survive and have the power to protect those who challenge you. Taking a peek in history: a lot of "heroes" are praised for their military conquest, and not their ability to rule their nation.

Not saying you can have one without the other, but I think in Tigre's case, his successes are built upon might. Not only personal might but also military might (with a lot of help from Lim). He tries to stand on a moral solid ground for his campaign.

I consider wisdom is something he initially lacked (politically speaking it seem the older generations form the backbone). In my eyes he is still a developing ruler who is still gaining experience. His little journey in v6 and 7 allow him to open his eyes a little. At one point of he will have to start thinking things in a much bigger picture, and just think "this is what I want to achieve and that is how I am going to reach my goal".

As a shonen novel the novel would not point out possible political failures in Tigre's part. For a regular peasant in Brune, the concept of your country relying the assistance of your neighbor, as well as having to yield precious land to them is still a hard pill to swallow despite it ending the civil war (and the land deal was purely strategical). Tigre also doesn't have to deal with the chaos after a cival war: things like, new nobles trying to raise to power, take advantage of the weakened state, military and economy wise. (You can compare her with Ellen who push to benefit from her contribution, and try to gain long term benefits such as establishing a new trade route - ofc, whoever operated the previous route... forgot who... might not be too happy about it, but once again the novel wouldn't/haven't mentioned something like that yet)
Is the peasant really that bitter toward the result of the war? I thing only the noble is going to care about that. The peasant should be more happy toward Tigre considering the alternantive like Ganelon (burning his own city) and Thenardier (ransacking city near border and make life unpleasant for his own territory), I don't think the peasant care that much about territory or politic, they should be really glad that the civil war stopped, they have peace with Zchted, and the crazy noble died.
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Old 2013-08-13, 23:43   Link #2674
Rasen
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I tried not to ask this for a long time but.. did someone already begin translating vol 7 for BT?
Try harder.
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Old 2013-08-14, 00:05   Link #2675
reccaryu
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Can anyone give me the address of setsuna's blog ?
Does he have one? I'd like to get the address too.
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Old 2013-08-14, 02:36   Link #2676
Leonardunitylim
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Does he have one? I'd like to get the address too.
Nevermind Lols. I've come to terms with patience. Let setsuna do his job peacefully and we shall wait
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Old 2013-08-14, 02:38   Link #2677
Leonardunitylim
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I tried not to ask this for a long time but.. did someone already begin translating vol 7 for BT?
Yea really ... You need more out sourcing . Check the Baka tsuki madan page. Setsuna is the one doing it
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Old 2013-08-14, 05:42   Link #2678
Ramero
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Yea really ... You need more out sourcing . Check the Baka tsuki madan page. Setsuna is the one doing it
I still can't read volume 7 yet.. Probably the translation wasn't finished yet..

Do you guys think that Tigre will command entire Kingdom troops to fight against Ancient Monsters? Because i get a smell that Monsters will start not one by one again after many failed attempt to get Tigre's Black Bow, instead it's an army.

In fort Lux it's still one by one even the Commander is a Monster (Leicester) but the soldier didn't notices it.

Backup are Superior Commander itself when the time comes (Such as 7 Vanadis, Tallard Graham and many superior commander are willing to aid Tigre) to fight the Ancient Monster.

That's just my predictions.. But i kinda got a hunch for it..
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Old 2013-08-14, 10:24   Link #2679
Yye1
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i cant remember which part of vol 4 valentina snuck in to meet tigre, can someone help me with that?
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Old 2013-08-14, 10:35   Link #2680
Leonardunitylim
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i cant remember which part of vol 4 valentina snuck in to meet tigre, can someone help me with that?
open the full preview of volume 4 and Ctrl + F for "Scythe". You should find it and look for the chapter number. If not, go to volume 5.
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