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Old 2014-02-08, 01:20   Link #2161
Metaneo
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Just finished watching a straight marathon of Ep 1 - 18, and I have to say, I enjoy this show a lot. The first 5 or 6 episodes made me want to beat my head off my keyboard in regards to Hikari and Manaka's characters, but I'm glad to see they actually grew up a little. It was nearly unbearable for me to watch Hikari and his seemingly pointless anger issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaqpabst View Post
But with that said, now that Manaka is back those girls are gonna be in the back burners for the people they like, with not even a second glance which pisses me off sense I believe Miuna deserves Hikari if anybody
Why does Miuna deserve Hikari? Does she deserve him more then Manaka or Chisaki? How does anyone deserve anyone more than anyone else? Because she knows that she wants Hikari while everyone else was a big ball of confused emotions?

Personally I'd like to see Hikari and Manaka get together, just as long as they want to be together, not because someone else died for it to happen.
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Old 2014-02-08, 12:07   Link #2162
mirahh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Why does Miuna deserve Hikari? Does she deserve him more then Manaka or Chisaki? How does anyone deserve anyone more than anyone else? Because she knows that she wants Hikari while everyone else was a big ball of confused emotions?

Personally I'd like to see Hikari and Manaka get together, just as long as they want to be together, not because someone else died for it to happen.
Agreed, love is not about deserving or not. It doesn't work that way, in anime or real life. Love either is, or it isn't.

I would like to see Hikari and Manaka together as well, and I don't think it's unlikely to happen. Manaka seemed to develop romantic feelings towards Hikari, and it all comes down to whether or not those feelings will continue to grow. I hope they will, but only time will tell.
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Old 2014-02-08, 12:22   Link #2163
sikvod00
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Hmm. While I agree that phrases such as "X 'deserves' to be with Y" cannot apply to love in real life, I don't think that's necessarily an incorrect way to think in fictional works like anime. After all, good romantic drama--and any interpersonal relationship for that matter--has to engage and interest the viewer in some way. That means some characters may actually have a more compelling reason to be in love or even end up with with somebody else. This is one of the reasons I never really cared for Sayu's infatuation with Kaname, because it appeared too superficial (i.e., falling for a charming pretty boy). Now in the real life that happens all the damn time. I've had a major crush on a girl for no real reason other than the fact that she was cute and treated me nice. Not very compelling writing material. But who cares? I'm a real person and I'm not defined by how "interesting" some audience sees me. Fictional characters are definitely subject to that judgement.

Last edited by sikvod00; 2014-02-08 at 12:43.
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Old 2014-02-08, 12:34   Link #2164
ices
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OP2 Lyric Translation from /a/

Quote:
Ebb and Flow

The falling powder snow flutters about,
The dream I was about to give up on rises again
Like on that day
I was watching your unchanging smile
The wind that dyed my cheeks red disappeared high in the sky

-- I was always watching you, close by yet far away, always out of reach...

As I asked "Why?"
My voice trembled as well
Swaying, the moon floated above the water
Not saying a word; merely a spectator
"I'm the same, right?"
My grasping hand hurts...

On a morning on which the wind blows idly,
The leaves of the trees playfully match my voice.
I start running towards you
Only in a dream did I give chase
looking at that profile is far off; not here.

The sea rises, the evening calm is fading again.
The determination that washed ashore (the beach of) my heart is the light of tomorrow.
Believe...

Hey...
My asking voice resounded
Running together in the evening sky, my heart would surely beat faster,
When the sunlight shines upon that hill
"Found you"
My wish is starting to sparkle like a gem, ah

The ebb and flow of my mind...

Notes:
- Profile refers to one's posture. Arguably not the best translation, but the alternative 'side face' seemed worse;
- I put (the beach of) in parentheses because it seems weird combined with 'ashore', yet I wanted to stick as close to the actual lyrics as possible.
- In 'my voice trembled as well', the 'as well' probably refers to the moon, as the chorus points out the similarity between the moon and the 'I' (probably Miuna). Swaying in this case could also be written as 'tremble', hence the as well. That's just my take on it at least.
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Old 2014-02-08, 12:40   Link #2165
Tenzen12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirahh View Post
Agreed, love is not about deserving or not. It doesn't work that way, in anime or real life. Love either is, or it isn't.

I would like to see Hikari and Manaka together as well, and I don't think it's unlikely to happen. Manaka seemed to develop romantic feelings towards Hikari, and it all comes down to whether or not those feelings will continue to grow. I hope they will, but only time will tell.
Yeah, it doesn't work that way in real life, but that's only cause RL is far from perfect. At least in fiction should be good deeds, effort and loyality rewarded appropriately. Happy end for free makes lame stories anyway

PS:I think seabed suited Manaka more as literaly everyone (including teacher, and Sayu) are more interesting characters.
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Old 2014-02-08, 13:22   Link #2166
mirahh
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You're both right. I was too quick in my statement there.

Another thing, but something I've been wondering; where will Manaka be staying now?
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Old 2014-02-08, 13:39   Link #2167
sikvod00
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I have no idea. It absolutely wouldn't surprise me if Manaka still isn't conscious and is instead being hospitalized for examination. So the next episode simply focuses on how the gang--specifically Hikari and Miuna--deals with the impact of her return. This show can drag it's feet sometimes...

Edit: I don't recall seeing Manaka awake in the preview for next episode, but my assumption could still totally be wrong.
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Old 2014-02-08, 13:53   Link #2168
Zangor17
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to be fair so far the next episode previews never really spoiled the big stuff like that Kaname didnt show up in the preview for 17 and his awakening was a complete surprise at the end of 16. The show gives enough in the previews to give you a very rough picture of the next episode but they arent as telling as alot of other anime.
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Old 2014-02-08, 14:00   Link #2169
Pablete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Yeah, it doesn't work that way in real life, but that's only cause RL is far from perfect. At least in fiction should be good deeds, effort and loyality rewarded appropriately. Happy end for free makes lame stories anyway
+1
This so much.
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Old 2014-02-08, 17:36   Link #2170
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
Hmm. While I agree that phrases such as "X 'deserves' to be with Y" cannot apply to love in real life, I don't think that's necessarily an incorrect way to think in fictional works like anime.
It isn't. But whenever you get a strong feeling that Character X really deserves to be with Character Y, but things aren't going Character X's way... Be prepared. In my experience, that's usually the author's way of pulling at your heartstrings and telling a sad, unrequited love story. This is especially true for Mari Okada.

And in a roundabout way, I think that one of the themes with this sort of story is that there is no fairness in love. Or, to put it the old-fashioned way, "all's fair in love and war" (i.e. conventional fairness doesn't apply here, at all).
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Old 2014-02-08, 18:55   Link #2171
deadite
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the picture book Miori was reading Miuna caught my attention. It seems to encapsualte the show themes. It has words from the title in it "calm/lull" and "tomorrow". It also talks about the "light"(Hikari).

The same vibe i got when Akari was explaining to her son what "Tomorrow" meant.

The concept of "tomorrow" has been thrown a lot in this show. Could it be the characters searching for this metaphysical "tomorrow" that never seems to come?

Last edited by deadite; 2014-02-08 at 19:24.
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Old 2014-02-08, 19:18   Link #2172
justpassingby
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^I'm going with 2ch (Miuna's thread)

Quote:
明日の光信じて

ebb and flow
Believe in tomorrow's Hikari
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Old 2014-02-08, 19:55   Link #2173
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
I have no idea. It absolutely wouldn't surprise me if b[Manaka still isn't unconscious and is instead being hospitalized for examination.
My thoughts exactly, to me it is quite obvious Manaka offered her life to the sea god and he wont give it back just as easily, Hikari & Co. need to find another sacrifice of equal value, remember the law of equivalent exchange >_<
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Old 2014-02-08, 23:28   Link #2174
Thess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
This is one of the reasons I never really cared for Sayu's infatuation with Kaname, because it appeared too superficial (i.e., falling for a charming pretty boy).
How are Miuna's feelings for Hikari more 'meaningful' than Sayu's feelings for Kaname? As far as I can see, Miuna's feelings are just a misguided childhood crush which got dragged by years of absence fed by fantasies and wishful thinking. The last episode kind of proves the point. Sayu's feelings, on the other hand, just seem a more normal crush on an attractive, charming male character which rekindled after years of absence. It's not just Sayu who wants Kaname's attention, but a lot of the girls in her class. Because of that, I think they are more plausible (but not likely to happen with the time constrains, except hinting at it). Miuna could be very well mistaking familial love with romantic love.
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Old 2014-02-08, 23:43   Link #2175
Birdway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
How are Miuna's feelings for Hikari more 'meaningful' than Sayu's feelings for Kaname? As far as I can see, Miuna's feelings are just a misguided childhood crush which got dragged by years of absence fed by fantasies and wishful thinking. The last episode kind of proves the point. Sayu's feelings, on the other hand, just seem a more normal crush on an attractive, charming male character which rekindled after years of absence. It's not just Sayu who wants Kaname's attention, but a lot of the girls in her class. Because of that, I think they are more plausible (but not likely to happen with the time constrains, except hinting at it). Miuna could be very well mistaking familial love with romantic love.
Cuz Miuna interacted more with Hikari due to her family in the past and knows him better compared to Sayu who just talked with Kaname a few times?
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Old 2014-02-08, 23:44   Link #2176
germanturkey
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aww, Oroko looked so sad when they were swimming away with Manaka...
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Old 2014-02-09, 00:34   Link #2177
ices
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
How are Miuna's feelings for Hikari more 'meaningful' than Sayu's feelings for Kaname? As far as I can see, Miuna's feelings are just a misguided childhood crush which got dragged by years of absence fed by fantasies and wishful thinking. The last episode kind of proves the point. Sayu's feelings, on the other hand, just seem a more normal crush on an attractive, charming male character which rekindled after years of absence. It's not just Sayu who wants Kaname's attention, but a lot of the girls in her class. Because of that, I think they are more plausible (but not likely to happen with the time constrains, except hinting at it). Miuna could be very well mistaking familial love with romantic love.
It's kind of hard to define what's meaningful and what not. But let's try...

Here some list from previous discussion that maybe could answer whether Miuna feeling towards Hikari is a meaningful ones (or not... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by ices View Post
Do you mean the episode when the little miuna fall to the sea for the first time or maybe something else? I like to hear more...

What I get was the opposite. Hikari was the one who bring the best in Miuna.
He was the one who teach Miuna to not playing dirty (episode 4). Hence she cover Sayu mistakes and help them to fix that.
When she was afraid of loving Akari since it'll just bring a pain and grief like what happened when her mother die (episode 5). Hikari was the one who save her and show her that loving someone not always a bad thing. Thus, we could see in Episode 14 flashback, Miuna decided not to cry after losing Hikari. She even becomes the figure who help Akari to move on with her live (from Akari's flashback). And probably this is the main reason why Miuna so persistent with her childhood crush... because Hikari taught her so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yeah, that one. The resulting scene between Hikari and Miuna was very sweet, and I think it brought out the best of Hikari's inherent protectiveness.

Hikari is inherently protective of the people he knows and/or cares about.

The situation with his sister (involving Miuna) gave him an opportunity to channel that protectiveness in a very productive way, in the process learning the difference between being helpful/constructive and being bossy/disruptive.

The situation with his sister was difficult and complicated, forcing Hikari to think a bit deeper than what he had been accustomed to. He had to look at things from different sides and perspectives, realizing the importance of what other people want for themselves, and not just what he wants for them.

He wasn't learning this from Manaka and Chisaki because they're not as transparent and straightforward as Akari, Miuna, and Sayu are. It's hard to realize the importance of what other people want for themselves when those same wants are shrouded from you or couched in subtle hard-to-get hints.

But you're certainly right that Hikari brought out the best in Miuna as well. Yes, Hikari doesn't play dirty - Even at his worst, he's very honest and straightforward and confronts people head-on. From seeing that example, Miuna became disgusted at the tactics that her and Sayu had been employing, which definitely help a lot in their improvements as characters and people.

So I'd say that Hikari and Miuna bring out the best in each other. That's a very nice basis for a romance, if you ask me.
Basically, I could recall some patern that sometimes happened in real life and brought ups to romance story. The reasons of why the heroine/protagonist fall in love. I cannot judge whether some reasons must be considered meaningful or not... it's hard to decide. Everything usually fall to how the story presented.

Admiration
This is why some strong character (usually the protagonist) would attract a bunch of love interest from the heroines. It's not a shame if you fall in love because of an admiration. Pretty much of love story that what happened IRL and Fiction also started from an admiration (well, I don't have any number to backing this fact...).
Happened to:
- Miuna to Hikari
- Sayu to Kaname
- Manaka to Hikari
- Chisaki to Hikari
- Chisaki to Tsumugu

Growing ups Together
This reason brings the famuous osanajimi/childhood friend genre. Usually you would want to spent your entire live with someone that grown ups together with you.
Happened to:
- Hikari to Manaka
- Manaka to Hikari
- Chisaki to Hikari
- Chisaki to Tsumugu
- Kaname to Chisaki

Wanna Protect their Smile
This also a good reason to fall in love. Much of the reason of protagonist that fall in love to the heroine/hero is because they wanna protect the heroin/hero smile/happiness. Usually, it's the result of an events.
Happened to:
- Hikari to Manaka
- Miuna to Hikari
- Tsumugu to Chisaki?

He/She changed/saved your Live
We tend to love the ones who has big impact in our live story. Whether it's them who bring a change in our live, or them who change us and made us growing as person, or them who save our live.
Happened to:
- Miuna to Hikari
- Hikari to Manaka?
- Chisaki to Tsumugu?

PS: This is my favorite reason. I recomend Koe no Katachi manga as reference. The main love story in this manga is based on the reason above. It's one of those heartwarming story that you'd sure will fall in love with ( YMMV). Go read it now and tell me how do you feel after reading it.
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Old 2014-02-09, 03:54   Link #2178
shaqpabst
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Speaking of relationships, this sums up the anime perfectly

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Old 2014-02-09, 05:23   Link #2179
Nachtwandler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Just finished watching a straight marathon of Ep 1 - 18, and I have to say, I enjoy this show a lot. The first 5 or 6 episodes made me want to beat my head off my keyboard in regards to Hikari and Manaka's characters, but I'm glad to see they actually grew up a little. It was nearly unbearable for me to watch Hikari and his seemingly pointless anger issues.



Why does Miuna deserve Hikari? Does she deserve him more then Manaka or Chisaki? How does anyone deserve anyone more than anyone else? Because she knows that she wants Hikari while everyone else was a big ball of confused emotions?

Personally I'd like to see Hikari and Manaka get together, just as long as they want to be together, not because someone else died for it to happen.
The thing is: if you exclude Manaka all other characters could end up with partner. It's the same thing as with AnoHana. I really tired of love polygons there you'll never get more than one pairing. I want everyone to get the lover at least ones.
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Old 2014-02-09, 05:28   Link #2180
Thess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdway View Post
Cuz Miuna interacted more with Hikari due to her family in the past and knows him better compared to Sayu who just talked with Kaname a few times?
None of those were made in a romantic framing, Hikari treated her as family. That Miuna misunderstood filial bond with a romantic one and then self-inserted herself in his past like she did in the last episode just proves her feelings are borderline unhealthy and immature. I reiterate, Sayu just has a crush on the charming bishounen of the cast which is pretty normal for a teenage girl. She's also self-aware it's dumb as hell but her hormones are acting up. She tries to move on while Miuna's hung up in an unhealthy fantasy world she imagines things and pines over someone she barely knew. The fact she longs to be part of his past is actually a clue that she's chasing after a fantasy. The way she pictures the school when in reality the school never had that many students is also a contrast of the world Miuna believes it existed and the cold hard facts.

A normal relationship wouldn't be one to be part of the past, but a person's present and future.

ices: If you use "bring out the best of Miuna", then you can play that card too with Kaname and Sayu when she was a little kid. He also brings out the worst of her (the entire 'date' episode) and the last episode was borderline this until Uroko appeared.

That list is interesting but ultimately undermining the characters as individuals, reducing them into check ups like a laundry list. I would not really use it to prove something 'meaningful'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ices View Post
- Hikari to Manaka?
- Chisaki to Tsumugu?
What's with the "?" Chisaki saved Tsumugu from drowning and Hikari did the same this last episode with Manaka.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-02-09 at 05:39.
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drama, harem, love polygon, mari okada, p.a. works, romance, seinen

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