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Old 2014-02-09, 06:29   Link #2181
Kirarakim
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To be fair to Sayu I don't think she just likes Kaname because he is a charming boy. She seemed to start to like him because of how he treated her a child.
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Old 2014-02-09, 07:01   Link #2182
Thess
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To be fair to Sayu I don't think she just likes Kaname because he is a charming boy. She seemed to start to like him because of how he treated her a child.
Kaname is hot. Sayu's reaction isn't specially unique. That old lady he talks for a second in one episode to is immediately smitten like all girls in whatever class he joins. He's supposed to be the charming, popular bishounen type. Sayu got flashed by his charm at young age, but then are girls sighing for him that knew him even less.

That's what I mean, her reaction is totally natural and hormonal. Like a girl of her age or any girl exposed by Kaname. She's well aware her feelings are immature too. Miuna's fantasy-dreams and pinning are not so normal. It just seems like a set up for usual Okada's unrequited love arc, I guess.
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Old 2014-02-09, 07:38   Link #2183
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anyone rewatch episode 2 where Hikari imagined Manaka losing her Ena?
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Old 2014-02-09, 08:19   Link #2184
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anyone rewatch episode 2 where Hikari imagined Manaka losing her Ena?
It was symbolism of Hikari's immature fear of being cast away by Manaka while he did nothing but helplessly watch. There's an interesting contrast of that now because he's carrying her to safety, not giving a damn about the ena shedding. Just a testament of Hikari's maturity as a character and in his love for Manaka.
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Old 2014-02-09, 08:29   Link #2185
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Thess is right - Kaname is simply smooth and physically attractive, so of course he'd be appealing to a lot of normal everyday girls.

In addition to that, Sayu's feelings towards Kaname really began when he became cross with her for picking on Hikari and causing him problems. Kaname was firm, assertive, and very straightforward there. I think that impressed Sayu, and had a considerable impact on how she views Kaname. To her, Kaname probably comes across as incredibly dashing.

So Sayu's approach to Kaname makes sense to me.
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Old 2014-02-09, 10:39   Link #2186
Haak
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Originally Posted by Birdway View Post
Well, lets see if Kaname will be more perseverant with Chisaki and perhaps be a bit more forceful ... but wait, wasn't Kouichi the nice guy from Hanasaku?
I know this post was ages ago but it made me realise just now that Okada happens to employ a few patterns when it comes to specific romances. Kou and Kaname are nice guys but they were originally in different templates.

Kou is part of the template where the male character will be this nice but nervous and wimpy guy that will scream his declaration of love in a comically whiny high pitched voice. Kou does exactly this in the first episode, we see another guy do this to Minko in that beach episode in HSI, and the guy who confessed to Miuna is clearly of this type as well (and I suppose Amata from Aquarion EVOL also counts). I think Okada likes using this template because she finds their loud and innocent honesty endearing, in a kinda "Kore wa seishun" sort of way. Whether or not they're successful is another story. I get the feeling that Okada likes to root for these guys and thus biased towards them but doesn't necessarily make it a deal breaker.

Kaname, however, seems to be part of a template that's a lot more "shoujo-esque": It involves a (most of the time) spunky rough girl that is swept away by this perfect, confident, handsome nice guy that's a lot more mature than her. We saw it in Satsuki in the HSI film and with Minko in the TV series, and I think we see it here in Sayu (as well as Akari to a lesser extent). I suppose this is kinda like the first template only with the girl instead of the guy and it gives off the same endearing innocence, but the success rate seem to be 100% here. The weird thing though is that the Ohana and Kou relationship sort of switched into this around the half way mark, so technically Kou's victory could've been attributed to being in this template rather than the other. Which means Kaname is probably going to end up with Sayu.

Of course this is all speculation. It should be noted that Okada probably only uses the above two templates when she wants to create a cute heartwarming romance but otherwise doesn't seem to use any obvious template when she wants to create a romance with deeper drama. (Ano Hana, True Tears and most of the pairings in Nagi no Asukara don't exhibit any characteristics of the above two templates).

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Thess is right - Kaname is simply smooth and physically attractive, so of course he'd be appealing to a lot of normal everyday girls.

In addition to that, Sayu's feelings towards Kaname really began when he became cross with her for picking on Hikari and causing him problems. Kaname was firm, assertive, and very straightforward there. I think that impressed Sayu, and had a considerable impact on how she views Kaname. To her, Kaname probably comes across as incredibly dashing.

So Sayu's approach to Kaname makes sense to me.
I don't think it impressed her. She was just incredibly upset that she made Kaname cross because she already began liking him. Kaname had already worked her charm on her in their very first scene together when he pats her head in episode 2 and she blushes like crazy and goes tsundere (Hence why Okada chooses to mark their reunion with Kaname patting her head again). The moment when Kaname is cross with her probably made her more aware of her crush on him though.
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Old 2014-02-09, 10:51   Link #2187
ices
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@Haak, ah, you are right. But should Noe True Tears included in that template?
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Old 2014-02-09, 10:54   Link #2188
Haak
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@Haak, ah, you are right. But should Noe True Tears included in that template?
Which one? I don't recall Noe being particularly swept off her feet by Shinichirou, nor do I recall Shinichirou being any sort of nervous male lead with loud declarations of love.

I don't really remember everything about True Tears though.
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Old 2014-02-09, 11:00   Link #2189
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I don't really remember everything about True Tears though.
Fun thing is... i mostly remember the strange bug song and the beta pairing.
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Old 2014-02-09, 11:24   Link #2190
ices
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@Haak sorry, my memory a bit hazy. It seems neither Noe nor Shinichi in that template.
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Old 2014-02-09, 11:35   Link #2191
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
To be fair to Sayu I don't think she just likes Kaname because he is a charming boy. She seemed to start to like him because of how he treated her a child.
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Thess is right - Kaname is simply smooth and physically attractive, so of course he'd be appealing to a lot of normal everyday girls.
Yes, Sayu fell for Kaname because he is charming, attractive, and is nice. That happens a lot in real life with crushes too. As I said before, it's what happened to me. But that is a fairly pedestrian reason to fall for someone. Something else needs to be present for me to actually care about it, even if I sympathize with her situation (i.e., Sayu being the third wheel to Miuna and Hikari when they went shoipping) Miuana's love is more engaging in part because of how hard she tries to support and understand Hikari, even at her own expense. That and the fact that their interactions together--both past and present-- have lasted more than 5 minutes. Lack of screen time is definitely an issue here.
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Old 2014-02-09, 13:28   Link #2192
Thess
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Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
Yes, Sayu fell for Kaname because he is charming, attractive, and is nice. That happens a lot in real life with crushes too. As I said before, it's what happened to me. But that is a fairly pedestrian reason to fall for someone. Something else needs to be present for me to actually care about it, even if I sympathize with her situation (i.e., Sayu being the third wheel to Miuna and Hikari when they went shoipping) Miuana's love is more engaging in part because of how hard she tries to support and understand Hikari, even at her own expense. That and the fact that their interactions together--both past and present-- have lasted more than 5 minutes. Lack of screen time is definitely an issue here.
And yet Sayu's affection is actually normal and realistic for a 14 years old girl vs Miuna's unhealthy wishful thinking to self insert in her uncle's past. That's why we get a scene where all girls, not just Sayu, wish for Kaname's attention. There's a point to make about Miuna's feelings being an anomaly which no doubt will be punished in the end. Deluding one self of becoming part of someone's past is pretty serious sign of immaturity. I think in general, Chisaki's growing relationship with Tsumugu is going to prove the point of you can't become part of someone's past, but you'll build a future together if comes to pass. Also you're making her far too selfless when she's show she's not. Last episode should be an example, her reason to guide Hikari and Kaname there was simply because she wanted to self inserted in Hikari's past and see the village. If Uroko hadn't appeared and guilt tripped her, she would have likely continued to do this. Thus letting Manaka drown.

Does this mean Uroko pulls the best out Miuna's and Hikari the worst presently?
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Old 2014-02-09, 13:29   Link #2193
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So you simply saying Sayu had just very normal crush and Myuna fallen for Hikari for real? Sound legit
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Old 2014-02-09, 13:32   Link #2194
sikvod00
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I've already said (twice now) that Sayu's crush on Kaname is a extremely common occurrence in real life. But normal and realistic doesn't necessarily mean more engaging as a story element. That's the case for me at least.
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Old 2014-02-09, 13:37   Link #2195
Thess
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So you simply saying Sayu had just very normal crush and Myuna fallen for Hikari for real? Sound legit
More that Sayu's feelings are healthy ones while Miuna's are not. From a storytelling POV.

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I've already said (twice now) that Sayu's crush on Kaname is a extremely common occurrence in real life. But normal and realistic doesn't necessarily mean more engaging as a story element. That's the case for me at least.
Well, I agree I suppose partly. It interests me how Miuna will grow up after she'll experience heartache. I hope Okada doesn't drag this out (but she will) and actually shows us Miuna getting over her one sided feelings before the finale.
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Old 2014-02-09, 13:47   Link #2196
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Miuna getting over her feelings for Hikari would be a wonderful moment of character development. I am not sure that is where the show is heading but I certainly won't complain if it is.
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Old 2014-02-09, 13:52   Link #2197
Haak
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There's a point to make about Miuna's feelings being an anomaly which no doubt will be punished in the end. Deluding one self of becoming part of someone's past is pretty serious sign of immaturity.
I don't see anything to suggest Miuna has deluded herself. She acknowledges that she wishes she were a part of Hikari's past more but that doesn't necessarily translate into anything unhealthy. All she did was write her name on a wall of what her current height was.

Quote:
Also you're making her far too selfless when she's show she's not. Last episode should be an example, her reason to guide Hikari and Kaname there was simply because she wanted to self inserted in Hikari's past and see the village. If Uroko hadn't appeared and guilt tripped her, she would have likely continued to do this. Thus letting Manaka drown.
That sounds very circumspect to me. The reason Miuna started looking for Manaka again after meeting Uroko was because she could hear the sound again, something that she was following and running after before she met Uroko as well, so there's nothing to suggest she would've continued doing her own thing if she could hear the sound again. Nor was she ever under the impression that Manaka was in any more danger than the other sea folk hibernating, so saying that she would be "letting Manaka drown" just sounds disingenuous.

Uroko does imply that she had more cynical reasons for being there but that doesn't suggest Miuna is going to be punished any more than Akari was when Uroko suggested she had cynical reasons for being in love with Itaru.
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Old 2014-02-09, 14:03   Link #2198
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I can kind of see what Thess is saying about the "Miuna imagining herself in Hikari's past" argument. I don't think it's a sign of serious mental or psychological problems, but yeah, it is a bit weird. But then, I do think there's a bigger picture that might explain it a bit.

That big picture is that... It's hard to escape the conclusion that Miuna/Sayu's classmates are a pretty lame bunch. At the very least, the guys probably seem that way to them. None of these guys could interest Miuna or Sayu enough to persuade them to forget about Hikari/Kaname respectively, and move on to someone else.

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King"

"In the land of the lame, Kaname is a rockstar and Hikari is the most interesting man in the world"

Looking at it that way, I can kind of see why Miuna would imagine herself in Dos Hikari's presumably far more glamorous history.


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I don't think it impressed her. She was just incredibly upset that she made Kaname cross because she already began liking him. Kaname had already worked her charm on her in their very first scene together when he pats her head in episode 2 and she blushes like crazy and goes tsundere (Hence why Okada chooses to mark their reunion with Kaname patting her head again). The moment when Kaname is cross with her probably made her more aware of her crush on him though.
Fair point. I admittedly forgot some of the very early scenes, including this Episode 2 head-pat.

Still, I think that Kaname becoming cross with her probably made him that much more memorable to her, helping her to hold out that flame for several years while he was hibernating.
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Old 2014-02-09, 14:05   Link #2199
sikvod00
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Miuna getting over her feelings for Hikari would be a wonderful moment of character development. I am not sure that is where the show is heading but I certainly won't complain if it is.
Agreed. As TripleR suggested, this may very well be a story of unrequited love for those involved. But rather than a sad ending, it could be a bittersweet one if they learned to accept and grow past it.
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Old 2014-02-09, 14:13   Link #2200
Thess
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I don't see anything to suggest Miuna has deluded herself. She acknowledges that she wishes she were a part of Hikari's past more but that doesn't necessarily translate into anything unhealthy. All she did was write her name on a wall of what her current height was.
Last episode me it clear that Miuna wanted to be part of the group back then, be underwater with them and attend their classes. That is a wishful thinking of inserting in someone's past and living a fantasy. It doesn't mean it's unusual for a little girl to fantasize over this, but it does hint her feelings are regressive and make her childish.

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That sounds very circumspect to me. The reason Miuna started looking for Manaka again after meeting Uroko was because she could hear the sound again, something that she was following and running after before she met Uroko as well, so there's nothing to suggest she would've continued doing her own thing if she could hear the sound again. Nor was she ever under the impression that Manaka was in any more danger than the other sea folk hibernating, so saying that she would be "letting Manaka drown" just sounds disingenuous.

Uroko does imply that she had more cynical reasons for being there but that doesn't suggest Miuna is going to be punished any more than Akari was when Uroko suggested she had cynical reasons for being in love with Itaru.
Uroko questioned her reasons to be here, Miuna lied about them. She was exposed as a liar and Uroko pointed out what her real motive was, she did regret it but it was thanks to Uroko's arrival, otherwise she'll be still in the dusty school. It's worth to see her goals are a contrast to Manaka's selfless sacrifice for Miuna's family happiness.

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I can kind of see what Thess is saying about the "Miuna imagining herself in Hikari's past" argument. I don't think it's a sign of serious mental or psychological problems, but yeah, it is a bit weird. But then, I do think there's a bigger picture that might explain it a bit.
Oh, I don't think they are mental problems, but if they last long they could be bad for Miuna. My point is that Sayu's not entertaining these fantasies vs Miuna who does. Sayu's more into how Kaname is still hot, while people rule it out because "it's not meaningful", it's simply a current teenage attraction that could grow into more, this isn't negative for Sayu who has a willingness to move on if it doesn't work out. Just like I said in the first answer, it is a point to signal perhaps Miuna's romantic feelings for Hikari are regressive and not a sign of meaningful maturation for her character right now. Just my opinion.
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