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Old 2014-02-25, 13:44   Link #2661
Kakurin-san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Maybe I'm hopelessly optimistic, but I think all the characters are going to get good endings. Hikari with Manaka, Tsumugu with Chisaki, Kaname with Sayu, and Uroko with Miuna. They'll need to pack a lot of developments in the remaining episodes though, but it's feasible.
This is what kind of worries me with the development right until episode 20. It will be incredibly hard to avoid the problem of a) leaving the impression of a consolation prize and b) avoid either an implausible radical turn or a complete invalidation of the previous 20 episodes of feelings. Take Manaka, she obviously cared very much about Hikari, but she was emancipating herself from him while pursuing Tsugumu (and if we take the story of Tsumugu's grandfather serious she thought enough of him in her sleep to make herself lose her Ena). Now, of course, with her five years of sleep and Tsumugu being around Chisaki you can construct a backturn. But still, the problem of Hikari being a consolation prize (which he absolutely doesn't deserve to be) would be a hindrance along the way.

Or Tsumugu with Chisaki. They spent five years together with no Kaname and Hikari around and still didn't end up together. Now with Hikari back Chisaki rediscovers her feelings. It would be quite hard to have her go towards Tsumugu while avoiding any of the aforementioned problems, in addition to leaving Chisaki in a bad light. I consider that one perhaps the hardest task. And with Sayu and Kaname, Kaname is solitary fixed on Chisaki and after he woke up he reassured himself that he won't change in this regard. And so once again the task is very tall to bring him and Sayu together without either turn Sayu into a consolation prize or completely rip Kaname apart.

Still, six episodes leave room for development, although it is reaching the far end of the tolerance area. I have nothing against any of the pairings (well, save for Chisaki and Tsumugu, I'd rather have Chisaki go alone than end up with him, and no I don't hate Tsumugu, but I just don't like this pairing) but I have my doubts about the road towards such kind of an ending. But if the staff does succeed in avoiding these problems, then I will be very much impressed.

But I must say I like your idea of Miuna and the Sea God. It would be very sad for her father and Akari who invested such efforts in her, but it would be kind of fitting in linking the second cour back to the end of the first.
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Old 2014-02-25, 14:53   Link #2662
Birdway
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^I agree with you about the consolation prize, it just feels lame and it would be more fulfilling for shippers than any other thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
But I must say I like your idea of Miuna and the Sea God. It would be very sad for her father and Akari who invested such efforts in her, but it would be kind of fitting in linking the second cour back to the end of the first.
I just hope that if that is the case they don't intend on making a movie about this, please, do not want .

EDIT:


Oh well, it was a good picture until it lasted .

Last edited by Birdway; 2014-02-26 at 11:08.
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Old 2014-02-25, 17:51   Link #2663
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
This is what kind of worries me with the development right until episode 20. It will be incredibly hard to avoid the problem of a) leaving the impression of a consolation prize and b) avoid either an implausible radical turn or a complete invalidation of the previous 20 episodes of feelings. Take Manaka, she obviously cared very much about Hikari, but she was emancipating herself from him while pursuing Tsugumu (and if we take the story of Tsumugu's grandfather serious she thought enough of him in her sleep to make herself lose her Ena). Now, of course, with her five years of sleep and Tsumugu being around Chisaki you can construct a backturn. But still, the problem of Hikari being a consolation prize (which he absolutely doesn't deserve to be) would be a hindrance along the way.
Manaka already sorted out her feelings in the first cour. She was planning to confess to Hikari after the Ofunehiki. All they need to do is show us her discussion with Tsumugu that was omitted, tell us her wish to the slug, and have her confess for good. It won't take long. This pairing is already pretty much set in stone imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Or Tsumugu with Chisaki. They spent five years together with no Kaname and Hikari around and still didn't end up together. Now with Hikari back Chisaki rediscovers her feelings. It would be quite hard to have her go towards Tsumugu while avoiding any of the aforementioned problems, in addition to leaving Chisaki in a bad light. I consider that one perhaps the hardest task. And with Sayu and Kaname, Kaname is solitary fixed on Chisaki and after he woke up he reassured himself that he won't change in this regard. And so once again the task is very tall to bring him and Sayu together without either turn Sayu into a consolation prize or completely rip Kaname apart.
There was a flashback showing Chisaki blushing while looking at Tsumugu, this opened up the possibility she is already in love with him but has been locking away those feelings for whatever reason like Tsumugu himself has done. At the very least, she seems conscious of him. There's a reason Kaname considers Tsumugu his greatest rival now. The hints and the chemistry are there, all they need to do is have her move on from her childhood crush, which is of course easier said than done. It will be tricky especially after episode 19.

Giving Miuna a good ending is probably the tallest order. The execution will have to be good if they intend to do that. They'll need to develop her a lot. Her love for the sea has been ignored for too long and they made her character too obsessed with Hikari in the second cour.

As for Sayu and Kaname, I don't really expect it to be developed. The staff doesn't seem to like nor care about Kaname. At best they'll just show them together after another timekskip at the very end of the show.

We have six episodes left, that's around two hours. A lot can happen.
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Old 2014-02-26, 04:44   Link #2664
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Spoiler for New visual for the finale.:
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Old 2014-02-26, 06:43   Link #2665
deadite
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saw that earlier... oh my.....
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Old 2014-02-26, 09:00   Link #2666
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I won't be surprised if Manaka is now present in that group shot at the beginning of OP. It appears Hikari was looking at the sea but I think it's more of Manaka

Everything seems to be heading towards Miuna being the new sacrifice, but I think it's gonna be Manaka again. Miuna might volunteer because of her wanting to protect Hikari's happiness but ultimately, I still think it's gonna be Manaka. She might have formed some kind of deep connection with the Sea God while she was under there, and the Sea God himself might prefer her. The issue here is gonna be if Hikari is willing to let go, and Manaka willing to let go of everything for the Sea God's sake. And regarding her ena, I personally think it's gonna return. It'll be interesting how Hikari reacts and how he will handle this despite having a negative view of the Sea God. C'mon PA I'm craving for my Hikari-centric episode.
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Old 2014-02-26, 11:14   Link #2667
ices
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Episode 21 - "The Messenger from the Bottom of the Sea"
Minasoko yori no tsukai
“水底よりの使い”



Eps. 21 Story Update (Dengeki Online link)




Staff

Screenplay: Akiko Waba (ep. 8, 9, 20) [↗]
Storyboard: Masahiro Ando (ep. 8, 12, 19) [↗]
Director: Heo Jong (Storyboard ep. 15, 20) [↗]
Animation Director:
- Hideki Takahashi (ep. 2, 8, 11, 16) [↗]
- Ayumi Nishibata (ep. 5, 15, 18) [↗]
- Asuka Kojima (ep. 11, 14, 16) [↗]

Preview Images
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Summary

Spoiler for Episode 21 Summary:



Last edited by ices; 2014-02-26 at 11:53.
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Old 2014-02-26, 14:01   Link #2668
banktoom
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^
oh Thank you very much ^ ^
Spoiler:
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Old 2014-02-26, 17:27   Link #2669
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
There was a flashback showing Chisaki blushing while looking at Tsumugu, this opened up the possibility she is already in love with him but has been locking away those feelings for whatever reason like Tsumugu himself has done. At the very least, she seems conscious of him. There's a reason Kaname considers Tsumugu his greatest rival now. The hints and the chemistry are there, all they need to do is have her move on from her childhood crush, which is of course easier said than done. It will be tricky especially after episode 19.
As you said, it will be very difficult after ep 19... which is one reason I really disliked the ending of that episode. If Chisaki had said something like, "now I see why I used to love him," we'd be in a clear resolution mode and ready to move on, but saying she still loves him really screws things up with the Tsumugu plotline.

Also, Kaname and Sayu has had basically zero focus whatsoever.
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Old 2014-02-26, 17:37   Link #2670
Kakurin-san
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
As you said, it will be very difficult after ep 19... which is one reason I really disliked the ending of that episode. If Chisaki had said something like, "now I see why I used to love him," we'd be in a clear resolution mode and ready to move on, but saying she still loves him really screws things up with the Tsumugu plotline.
That's why I said I consider Chisaki's situation the hardest. If the staff wants to pit Chisaki and Tsumugu together 19 would be too much of artificial drama / catalyst in my opinion. And now it will be very hard to avoid Tsumugu being relegated to a consolation prize due to Hikari not responding to Chisaki's feelings, or turning Chisaki's romantic feelings hollow by letting her do a 180 turn. Right now my take on Chisaki is, I wish she ends up with nobody, while being happy with her life with everybody back around her.

Oh, and after seeing that picture above - I don't want to interpret things into a picture that stands alone out there - but it does give the feeling of Tsumugu looking at Chisaki from a close distance, but not being able to close that last gap.
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Old 2014-02-26, 17:57   Link #2671
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
That's why I said I consider Chisaki's situation the hardest. If the staff wants to pit Chisaki and Tsumugu together 19 would be too much of artificial drama / catalyst in my opinion. And now it will be very hard to avoid Tsumugu being relegated to a consolation prize due to Hikari not responding to Chisaki's feelings, or turning Chisaki's romantic feelings hollow by letting her do a 180 turn.
Is that so important for you? Feelings change. As long as it's portrayed properly, I don't think a sudden 180 would be that much of a problem. Of course, she doesn't have to end up with Tsumugu, but I think it would the be the most effective way to show she has gotten over Hikari and has moved on with her life, which is really what this is all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Oh, and after seeing that picture above - I don't want to interpret things into a picture that stands alone out there - but it does give the feeling of Tsumugu looking at Chisaki from a close distance, but not being able to close that last gap.
That shows his current standing. Everything could change in the end (or not). We'll have to wait and see.
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Old 2014-02-26, 18:03   Link #2672
Kakurin-san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Is that so important for you? Feelings change. As long as it's portrayed properly, I don't think a sudden 180 would be that much of a problem.
If you've read my posts correctly you would know that I am not saying that nobody should get together with anybody. I was just mentioning my worries that a good portrayal will be tough with the current development. If they can portray it in a way that avoids my aforementioned problems, hats off to the writers and I'll be very much impressed. But if they can't, then I'd prefer no relationship over a glossed over one.
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Old 2014-02-26, 18:11   Link #2673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
But if they can't, then I'd prefer no relationship over a glossed over one.
I'm fine with no relationships, but that would suggest the characters were unable to move on (especially Chisaki). If Okada finds a way to avoid that, then that's great, but I think it would be even harder to do than what you're concerned about.
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Old 2014-02-26, 18:17   Link #2674
Kakurin-san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'm fine with no relationships, but that would suggest the characters were unable to move on (especially Chisaki). If Okada finds a way to avoid that, then that's great, but I think it would be even harder to do than what you're concerned about.
Then we disagree on this point, which is fine. I don't think not getting into a relationship automatically gives the notion of a character not being able to move on. It is perfectly possible to move on while being single and I don't think it's harder to portray than getting into a relationship.

Last but not least I also want clarify the comment regarding consolation prize. The problem of consolation prize isn't a change of feelings, but rather the opposite. What I don't want to see is something that suggests the attitude of "oh, I can't get together with the one I love, so I just choose the second best thing out there". That's not a change of heart, that's just getting together for the sake of being with somebody.
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Old 2014-02-26, 19:06   Link #2675
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
Then we disagree on this point, which is fine. I don't think not getting into a relationship automatically gives the notion of a character not being able to move on. It is perfectly possible to move on while being single and I don't think it's harder to portray than getting into a relationship.
It is really hard to portray. How do you show that a character has had a change of heart and finally moved on on concrete terms? We're talking about feelings. You can't portray feelings unless they relate to specific actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
What I don't want to see is something that suggests the attitude of "oh, I can't get together with the one I love, so I just choose the second best thing out there". That's not a change of heart, that's just getting together for the sake of being with somebody.
That would never happens. If Chisaki gets together with Tsumugu (which is unlikely, mind you) it will be because that's what she wanted to. Getting together for the sake of getting together would be meaningless thematically speaking. There's no reason to be concerned about that.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2014-02-26 at 23:51.
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Old 2014-02-26, 23:15   Link #2676
ChainLegacy
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Well, of course it's highly unlikely they're going to explicitly state (whether it be via internal monologue or otherwise), "Guess I have to settle for second best," the problem is portrayal. With so few episodes left, it's pretty difficult to make a change of heart seem genuine. Not to say it's impossible, but you've got to admit all of us will be a bit skeptical if she goes running in the opposite direction without some pretty damn good character growth with such a small amount of time left.
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Old 2014-02-27, 00:01   Link #2677
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
With so few episodes left, it's pretty difficult to make a change of heart seem genuine.
I don't know. Sometimes a change of heart is a sudden moment. Or at least, that's usually all it takes to convince most viewers. For example, the only hint that Manaka started liking Hikari in the first half of the series was her reaction to Hikari's "big flag." It wasn't much, but it was enough to convince a lot of people of her change of heart.

So it's not that hard to portray. You just need something to trigger the epiphany. It doesn't even have to be something grand or anything.
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Old 2014-02-27, 00:43   Link #2678
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Showing one character successfully moving on from another character can be done one or both of two ways.

1) Entering into a relationship with a different character, of course.

2) Contentment/Happiness + "Distance". What I mean by "distance" is actual literal distance, but also a sense of mental or emotional distance.

Let's say that the final three episodes of Nagi no Asukara features few shared scenes between Chisaki and Hikari, most/all scenes of Chisaki showing her to be happy and content, and no bits of Chisaki talking/narrating about Hikari and/or her feelings for her. Collectively, this would be a pretty big hint that Chisaki is "over him", even if she doesn't state so explicitly or in narration.

Much the same could demonstrate Kaname being over Chisaki, Miuna being over Hikari, etc...


Absence of evidence isn't always evidence of absence, but after awhile it starts to seem that way, and viewers will get the hint.
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Old 2014-02-27, 04:35   Link #2679
ices
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Nagi no Asukara OST Release date:

OST1: 2014/4/23
OST2: 2014/6/25

http://nagiasu.jp/goods/index.html#cd

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Old 2014-02-27, 04:53   Link #2680
Kakurin-san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ices View Post
Nagi no Asukara OST Release date:

OST1: 2014/4/23
OST2: 2014/6/25

http://nagiasu.jp/goods/index.html#cd

Great, I was already wondering about an OST. Some of the BGM is pretty good.
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