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Old 2013-12-27, 09:18   Link #1081
Arya
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About the flop of the show, I'd say it's for Hikari. Using an unlikable character like him is highly risky, because if audience don't like him beyond the bounds, as apparently happened, why they should keep watching given that he is the MC?

Anyways, I also don't get the big surprise about Tsugumu and Chisaki. We got some subtle hints here and there that were pointing to this develpment. Now, I agree that the way Chisaki reacted felt overplayed, but that's how usually they handle emotions in this series when they need to call for drama. In fact I loved the few interactions they had, because of their subtlety instead of pursuit love races
About Kaname as I said, props to him, I don't know what would be better for him. In any case they should have developed him at least a bit if he was really meant to die. I have to admit that it didn't affected me that much if not in the context of Chisaki guilt feelings. For that reason I don't think he is dead. he had a lot of potential, unluckily for him, if they will ever go on with Tsumugu and Chisaki relationship.
About them I think that the guilt will put their feelings on hold until the kids return. Chisaki could even decide to go back to sleep instead of staying on the surface.

And by the way, if the time skip happens this will give us different ages for the four kids when I assumed that all would have slept. Instead we could have at least Chisaki older that the rest of the kids, that would be interesting, even if I don't think it will happen.

Anyways, about the rite, there's an aspect that we should take in count. They did it even for the land people. It will be interesting to see, if the time skip happen, how much Manaka's sacrifice worked or not. I mean, The land village lives on fishing industry, so based on how well or bad the rite went, they will suffer or not about scarcity of fishes.
Tsugumu and his gramps lives of that (btw, I have a feelings that gramps will die during the time-skip), Akari's husband works in that industry. Tsumugu could be forced to go back to the city reuniting with his parents. In the worst case scenario people will be forced to leave the village. Giving us a spectral scenery of our bright village. On the other hand if that won't happen we could assume that Manaka's sacrifice had been worth. And it would explain why a human sacrifice was required. To save at last one side.

By the way, will Akari marry Miuna's father after that tragedy? I'm inclined to think she will not. And in any case, poor Akari, the only one time she was obtaining what she deserved the sea ruined even it Now I understand why they gave her that constant sad expression.
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Old 2013-12-27, 09:52   Link #1082
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OP2 Sample
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Old 2013-12-27, 10:26   Link #1083
Guardian Enzo
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Yes, because the anime landscape is in no way littered with huge-selling anime with unlikable male leads...

Hikari isn't unlikable anyway - that was just a knee-jerk reaction by anime fans who reflexively hate male leads based on one episode that was obviously a setup for the wide-reaching character arc he's had over the course of the series.
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Old 2013-12-27, 10:33   Link #1084
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OP2 sample sounds sad. DRAMA IS COMING.
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Old 2013-12-27, 10:49   Link #1085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I don't really think it was abnormal to be honest. Her friend that has occasionally given her support was nearly killed in a highly traumatic fashion. I think an emotional 13 year old girl has license to be highly relieved her friend wasn't brutally killed in a huge disaster.
The highlight of that moment was the not-so-subtle close up of Chisaki hugging the head of an unconscious Tsumugu. It isn't like Chisaki had harbored a close relationship with Tsugumu at all, so being that moved is really not what I would consider natural in that given context.
That brief moment is what I consider unsettling, so no surprise that Kaname was more or less dejected.
Quote:
The fact that Uroko tricked even Hikari's dad ought to show that there was never meant to be any danger. I do think that point could have been clarified a bit more though. But it's a very minor issue imo.
Hikari's dad thought it was useless because he didn't expect the sea god to show up at all, especially after what Uroko kept saying up to now. Meanwhile, Hikari & co were doing that last ditch effort to appeal the sea god, so I frankly think they should at least consider the possibility that the real Ofunehiki could happen, espcially they should have known by now what the real ritual was and they were not just doing for symbolism: they really hoped the sea god to hear their prayers.
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
This of course is a matter of opinion but I don't think character development should be too rushed and for me this is one of the series strengths.
It isn't like it need to be rushed, but it has to be dealt in a timely manner. Like solace said, it becomes an over development when you have a sledgehammer thrown at you with the -same cycling antics-. Things would have been radically different if Hikari's self cautiousness really started around ep3 instead.
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The characters might be in love with someone but they don't start to hate each other when that character loves someone else and those feelings are not returned.
My biggest gripe with such ploy isn't the fact you could have a ugly drama as result. Rather, it is the usual trick to interlopate several interpersonal issues for the hell of it.
It incredibly drag out the narrative regarding the couples and so forth, and since we know that having "happy rivals" is hardly credible, having such large romance spider web is just making the whole situation more complex than it need to be.
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well Hikari has become my favorite character starting from what I felt he was unfairly bashed in this series to seeing how he grew over the course of the 13 episodes it's the kind of character development I love most of all. Seeing a flawed character realize their flaws and then work to overcome them and I love how he has made friends with so many of the land people (even acknowledging that Tsumugu is precious to him). So yeah I am very Hikari biased.
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Yes, because the anime landscape is in no way littered with huge-selling anime with unlikable male leads...

Hikari isn't unlikable anyway - that was just a knee-jerk reaction by anime fans who reflexively hate male leads based on one episode that was obviously a setup for the wide-reaching character arc he's had over the course of the series.
Except Hikari's tantrum lasted more than one episode.
The whole problem with Hikari was more on the narrative structure regarding his growth: we had to deal with a brat who had to be honest with himself. That part is a good approach, until you have more than 2 episodes with the said character going nowhere in such aspect.

What actually annoyed people, especially japanese audience, is that Hikari is noisy with a very bad temper. When you see tons of people saying うぜえええ on 2ch and twitter, I guess you can compliment Okada for successfully pissing off the audience.
There is a very big difference between a really unlikable character and a faulty narrative. Hikari is the latter and suffice to say, the sales of first DVD/BD got heavily affected since the early impressions of the series were quite bombed by Hikari's tantrums.

As of now, he is probably the best well rounded character in the series, but frankly, his bratty attitude was too longwinded that his development felt like it took an eternity to show up. It isn't like he needed to have his current growth within 5 episode, but at least few things like his apology towards the other guys regarding the Ofunehiki doll in the middle of ep3. Prior episode 4, it was a veryyyy loud "surface guys can jut GTFO!" rondo.
And due to how Manaka, Chisaki and Kaname were hardly active during that period, the center of attention was on Hikari, which didn't help for the slow start of NnA.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-12-27 at 11:08.
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Old 2013-12-27, 10:51   Link #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GensoAsch View Post
OP2 sample sounds sad. DRAMA IS COMING.
where do you can listen ? can't find it on google
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:04   Link #1087
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Originally Posted by silvercrow108 View Post
where do you can listen ? can't find it on google
Here : http://llamaop.wordpress.com/2013/12...o-asukara-op2/
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:13   Link #1088
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In today's anime world, the fast-paced one-cour show is now King.

For a two-cour show to sell well, it typically has to be based on a very popular source material.

Hanasaku Iroha, a previous PA Works show, is an exception to both, but it did have a very strong and likeable female lead.


I don't think that Hikari is the problem, per se, but sales-wise, the show badly needed somebody to step up and be an Ohana. Nobody did.
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:18   Link #1089
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The highlight of that moment was the not-so-subtle close up of Chisaki hugging the head of an unconscious Tsumugu. It isn't like Chisaki had harbored a close relationship with Tsugumu at all, so being that moved is really not what I would consider natural in that given context.
That brief moment is what I consider unsettling, so no surprise that Kaname was more or less dejected.
They were friends. Chisaki confided his deepest feelings to him and he responded by showing care and attention that Chisaki eventually respected and appreciated. The context is that an extremely confused emotional 13 year old girl was just relieved her friend wasn't brutally killed in traumatic fashion. Is putting his head on her lap, after everything that's happened, really that unnatural?

Quote:
Hikari's dad thought it was useless because he didn't expect the sea god to show up at all, especially after what Uroko kept saying up to now. Meanwhile, Hikari & co were doing that last ditch effort to appeal the sea god, so I frankly think they should at least consider the possibility that the real Ofunehiki could happen, espcially they should have known by now what the real ritual was and they were not just doing for symbolism: they really hoped the sea god to hear their prayers.
Indeed, they should have at least considered it. It very likely wouldn't have changed anything since the possibility was so small to begin with (and since it's obvious they thought the ceremony itself could be enough) but it would have clarified their position a bit more.

Quote:
It isn't like it need to be rushed, but it has to be dealt in a timely manner. Like solace said, it becomes an over development when you have a sledgehammer thrown at you with the -same cycling antics-. Things would have been radically different if Hikari's self cautiousness really started around ep3
It did start at around episode 3...
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:25   Link #1090
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
They were friends. Chisaki confided his deepest feelings to him and he responded by showing care and attention that Chisaki eventually respected and appreciated. The context is that an extremely confused emotional 13 year old girl was just relieved her friend wasn't brutally killed in traumatic fashion. Is putting his head on her lap really that unnatural?
I believe it is, when you have Kaname still not on the boat. It isn't like Tsugumu was in any imminent danger once he was on the boat, but regardless if they knew about the pillar or not, right now the situation is quite dangerous due to the sea god. So, from a matter of perspective, yes I do believe it is a tad unnatural for Chisaki to hug his head while Kaname (who is, "normally" closer to her than Tsumugu ever was) isn't even out of danger.
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It did start at around episode 3...
I consider ep4 as the true start of his growth. Ep3 was entangled with Hikari's explosive "overprotective" nature towards Akari due to her implication with a "surface guy".

Hikari really questioned himself and the whole "us VS them" starting in ep4 imho. And the direct result was his dogeza.
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:28   Link #1091
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I believe it is, when you have Kaname still not on the boat.
Honestly, Okada's probably just having some meta-level fun here. Same thing with the whole "Wave that flag, Hikari!" bit.

Honestly, don't you find it kinda funny?

Kaname slowly falls backwards into the water, hilariously pained expression on his face (see Haak's avatar), while Chisaki holds Tsugumu in her hands like he was her injured lover.
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:48   Link #1092
Klashikari
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Well... there is a reason that there is a major "Kaname has been NTR left and right" meme to death with this episode.
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:52   Link #1093
Haak
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I believe it is, when you have Kaname still not on the boat. It isn't like Tsugumu was in any imminent danger once he was on the boat, but regardless if they knew about the pillar or not, right now the situation is quite dangerous due to the sea god. So, from a matter of perspective, yes I do believe it is a tad unnatural for Chisaki to hug his head while Kaname (who is, "normally" closer to her than Tsumugu ever was) isn't even out of danger.
Chisaki probably thought they were all out of danger. And they likely were until the pillar fell. It's not like anybody else helped him up.

Quote:
I consider ep4 as the true start of his growth. Ep3 was entangled with Hikari's explosive "overprotective" nature towards Akari due to her implication with a "surface guy".

Hikari really questioned himself and the whole "us VS them" starting in ep4 imho. And the direct result was his dogeza.
Episode 3 was when he started questioning his beliefs when he realised how much Itaru meant to his sister (something that I believe was foreshadowed as early as Episode 2) and the result was him accepting Tsumugu as a friend after he acknowledged that he should stop giving Manaka a hard time on the issue after he overheard Manaka talking about her feeling on Tsumugu.

But I just think it's a crying shame that one or two extra episodes is considered an eternity these days.
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Old 2013-12-27, 11:56   Link #1094
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poor kaname, this what happen with the "cool" guys in animes, or their end forever alone or die/disappear/forget/throwed away, this is something i aways dont liked in animes, while our full of faults and bad points "awesome(pathetic mc) is blessed with the luck/bless of the manga/anime gods of have all the womans fall for him or everything good happen to him, have everything who not was supposed to have, the guys who are supposed to have something(in a real world most girls dont like pathetic/shamefull guys) ending alone or just being the character in background to help the mc have everything who the cool guy was supposed to have something dont have or even not is interested in have or when he is, he just easy lose.

that selfish otaku logic aways disturb me, why the useless mc, the normal or the cool guy, all of then can't have love??? and only the pathetic(this not the case of this show but overal most of the animes are like that).
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Old 2013-12-27, 12:11   Link #1095
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that selfish otaku logic aways disturb me, why the useless mc, the normal or the cool guy, all of then can't have love??? and only the pathetic(this not the case of this show but overal most of the animes are like that).
That's because if the male lead isn't any good, but the series offers alternative (be it a harem, or other male/female strong lead), it is fine.
The point is, when a series focus heavily on a very limited number of characters, and that some/all of them are not likable from the get go, it will have a major impact on the appreciation for the series as a whole.

It isn't like people have the same habits of waiting for 3-4 episodes to drop it or not, and if the series can't keep the audience attention strongly enough during the critical setup period, then it is also partially the studio fault for that.

Hikari is arguably not the worst male lead in term of obnoxiousness, but NnA didn't have a good start to appeal most people who were just curious about it.
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Old 2013-12-27, 12:24   Link #1096
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I think people are making unfounded assumptions that the series did not sell well because of Hikari. There is absolutely no basis for that. I understand that people didn't like him on here, but I never agreed with that criticism so *shrugs*.

Seriously why did countless other series not sell well? Did they all have a Hikari? Are all those series not good? Sales really don't say anything in my opinion except it didn't work for the Japanese Otaku market.

Sure we all want the series we like to sell well but unfortunately in life that doesn't always happen. It is already going to get its full story told so it not selling well is not the end of the world.
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Old 2013-12-27, 12:27   Link #1097
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I think people are making unfounded assumptions that the series did not sell well because of Hikari. There is absolutely no basis for that. I understand that people didn't like him on here, but I never agreed with that criticism so *shrugs*.

Seriously why did countless other series not sell well? Did they all have a Hikari? Are all those series not good? Sales really don't say anything in my opinion except it didn't work for the Japanese Otaku market.

Sure we all want the series we like to sell well but unfortunately in life that doesn't always happen. It is already going to get its full story told so it not selling well is not the end of the world.
If you consider the general reactions on 2ch and twitter from Jp audience to be unfounded, I really want you to explain me how NnA bombed this way.
It is fine if you can't accept that criticism, but I really find that dubious you deny such aspect of it to the point you claim "it can't be the reason the series isn't selling" unless you consider your opinion valid for the majority of the japanese audience, which is far fetched.

And no, you can't group series that bombed in sales chart due to a common factor. That's just fallacy.
There are obviously "otaku market" criteria, but making such generalization is just impertinent.
Otherwise, I really wonder why Anohana could do well, despite it is not exactly pandering.

Sales are never a quality factor whatsoever, but it isn't either a solid evidence of the "taste" of the japanese audience.
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Old 2013-12-27, 12:52   Link #1098
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
If you consider the general reactions on 2ch and twitter from Jp audience to be unfounded, I really want you to explain me how NnA bombed this way.
It is fine if you can't accept that criticism, but I really find that dubious you deny such aspect of it to the point you claim "it can't be the reason the series isn't selling" unless you consider your opinion valid for the majority of the japanese audience, which is far fetched.
Can you please show me where someone said Japanese fans on twitter and 2ch were saying they did not like Hikari. That might be the case but so far everyone seemed to be basing "bad sales" on their own opinion.

Now if that was the case then I take back what I say but I was only basing my comments of unfounded based on what people were saying on this message board.

edit: I see that you did make a comment about Japanese fans, but that was after my initial post.


Quote:
As of now, he is probably the best well rounded character in the series, but frankly, his bratty attitude was too longwinded that his development felt like it took an eternity to show up.
Kind of ironic because in earlier episodes when he was developing people were saying it was happening too soon.

But his story and development happened gradually over the course of the 1st half of the series and accumulated at the end of the 1st cour where we can see where Hikari's development took him. For a 2 cour series I don't think that is "late" at all. But you know people just like to bash characters and harshly judge them without giving them a chance.
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Old 2013-12-27, 13:27   Link #1099
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Can you please show me where someone said Japanese fans on twitter and 2ch were saying they did not like Hikari. That might be the case but so far everyone seemed to be basing "bad sales" on their own opinion.

Now if that was the case then I take back what I say but I was only basing my comments of unfounded based on what people were saying on this message board.

edit: I see that you did make a comment about Japanese fans, but that was after my initial post.
*sigh* it isn't like I can magically excavate threads and tweets from october, when you generally just follow the hashtag like many others, and I frankly doubt someone coincidentally mentioned 2ch, besides the usual "okada writing" subject.

Oh well, looked a bit and that's just a sample:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/shachiani/ar.../33623028.html

Arguably not heated whatsoever, but the good majority of the comment mentioning Hikari is generally not so positive: so many flags against him (regarding Manaka and Tsumugu, generally dubbed イケメン), even compared to Kanna from AnoNatsu. Some other comment including "a guy's jealousy is unsightly". I can testify it was arguably more numerous at that time but heh, it seems I'm not trustworthy.

As a side note, some people were surprised this series will be a 2 cour, right from the first episode.
Meanwhile, although it wasn't really hard to do so, it was painfully obvious it would be a one sided love train.
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Old 2013-12-27, 14:06   Link #1100
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Hikari is arguably not the worst male lead in term of obnoxiousness, but NnA didn't have a good start to appeal most people who were just curious about it.
I'm an example here. My initial impression was not very kind to this show, and I don't really regret dropping it. I've kept up through this thread and blogs, but nothing so far has grabbed me and made me go "I must watch this!"

I'm always wary of Okada being attached to a title, but I did enjoy AnoHana a lot, so I was hoping this would feel a bit like that. But the cast here was just so unlikable that I was immediately turned off and the contrived plot/setting didn't help.
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