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Old 2013-12-28, 11:37   Link #1141
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Misogyny means "hatred of women" and no where in the series did Hikari profess or even show this.
That's the literal meaning of the word, but feminists and sociologists use it to mean attitudes that subordinate or dehumanize women in comparison to men, including the assumption that women belong to men and need to do as they're told. Everything we've seen about gender relations in Shioshishio has been misogynistic, and Hikari's attitude towards Manaka is part of that pattern.
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Old 2013-12-28, 11:42   Link #1142
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
I simply disagree that it was sexist because, as I said before, she is the only female that he treated that way.
Manaka is the target of his romantic affection. He feels entitled because she's the woman he likes. That's sexist no matter how you slice it.
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Old 2013-12-28, 11:47   Link #1143
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Manaka is the target of his romantic affection. He feels entitled because she's the woman he likes. That's sexist no matter how you slice it.


That doesn't sound like sexism at all. That's just entitlement.

Do you think bossy jealous women are sexist as well?
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Old 2013-12-28, 11:49   Link #1144
sikvod00
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He feels entitled because it's Manaka, not because she's a female. His personality was initially that of a temperamental pushy brat and she initially acted like a crybaby that needed protection. That's been their relationship up until this point so it only appears that he is being a domineering sexist pig/ His behavior towards other females also disproves that it's sexist. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. There's only one scene of serious misogyny that comes to mind in this show for me.
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Old 2013-12-28, 12:00   Link #1145
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
That's the literal meaning of the word, but feminists and sociologists use it to mean attitudes that subordinate or dehumanize women in comparison to men, including the assumption that women belong to men and need to do as they're told. Everything we've seen about gender relations in Shioshishio has been misogynistic, and Hikari's attitude towards Manaka is part of that pattern.
Not really sure where Hikari dehumanized Manaka anywhere in the story or acted like she belonged to him.

I think you are missing the point of these characters. Manaka was shown to be the cry baby of the group and Hikari who was her friend since childhood grew to want to protect her and think she needs protection because of her own personality.


Hikari later realized that he doesn't need to protect Manaka, that he needs to support her in her own decisions & become independent. He even comes to the realization that while he wanted to protect Manaka she was often protecting him.

So where people are seeing misogyny I am at a loss. Because a kid wants to protect a girl he cares about is not misogyny. And yes Hikari had a pushy & bossy attitude but that is a result of being an immature kid not misogynist.

Also I know exactly what misogyny is and when the term is overused it takes away the meaning of the word.
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Old 2013-12-28, 12:05   Link #1146
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When it comes to gender relations in this show, I think that Okada is simply writing what she knows - i.e. modern Japan. She's not sugarcoating it, and she's not really endorsing it, but she's also not actively critiquing it. She's just throwing it out there because that is what she knows ("write what you know" is one of the most tried, tested, and true standards for writing). This anime probably isn't intended to be a social satire on gender issues. That's probably outside the scope of what this anime is aiming for.

It's pretty rare for North American/European entertainment to present misogyny (or at least something that looks like it) without also clearly critiquing it. So seeing it go largely unopposed in this anime can be off-putting to many of us, and understandably so. This includes some of the interactions between Hikari and Manaka, but it goes beyond that alone, of course.

However, I think in Okada's mind, this is just reality - the reality she knows personally in Japan - and dealing with reality is part of life. You can't always change it.


But for many of us, the concerns over misogyny are real and genuine. It's clear to me that Kazu-kun and Utsuro no Hako are completely sincere in stating their objections to what they saw of it in this anime. It does matter to them. It mattered to me when I briefly thought that maybe Hikari really is sexist (I no longer think that, largely due to Hikari's relationship with his sister and Miuna).

I doubt any of this is impacting NnA's popularity in Japan, though. But Hikari's starting from a low point (and staying there for a few episodes) might have been an issue, yeah. In other words, his generally bratty nature in the early-going might have been an issue (rather than misogyny specifically).


There's a popular writing technique for Japanese media (anime, LN, VN, manga, JRPG) that I think might be starting to run up against what Japanese anime fans look for in their anime. And part of what they look for is, let's face it, instant gratification. At the maximum, you get 3 episodes to sell your show and your characters to the anime world.

So what writing technique am I talking about? It's the one of starting a character from a very low point so that there's loads of character development potential with that character (it's crystal clear to me that this is exactly what Okada was aiming for with Hikari). But this technique obviously doesn't gel well with anime Blu-Ray/DVD buyers increasingly adhering to the 3 Episode Rule.

It's going to be interesting to see who buckles first in this conflict between anime writers and anime viewers - the anime writers who want to start low and gradually build up with their characters, or the anime viewers who want characters that they can easily like even in the early going.
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Old 2013-12-28, 12:20   Link #1147
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But for many of us, the concerns over misogyny are real and genuine. It's clear to me that Kazu-kun and Utsuro no Hako are completely sincere in stating their objections to what they saw of it in this anime. It does matter to them. It mattered to me when I briefly thought that maybe Hikari really is sexist (I no longer think that, largely due to Hikari's relationship with his sister and Miuna).
I understand it matters to them and I don't doubt their sincerity. Frankly the subject matter is important to me too and despite the disagreement I am happy they care about these issues because I do think it is a problem in anime and well fiction in general. However I disagree and thus object to the use of the term in this instance.


Quote:
So what writing technique am I talking about? It's the one of starting a character from a very low point so that there's loads of character development potential with that character (it's crystal clear to me that this is exactly what Okada was aiming for with Hikari). But this technique obviously doesn't gel well with anime Blu-Ray/DVD buyers increasingly adhering to the 3 Episode Rule.
I can't speak for the anime BR/DVD buyers but to me it was pretty clear that Hikari while flawed was not a bad kid and was obviously going to have a character growth arc. I personally like that type of character: I think Ringo & Taichi are other examples. In fact fans bashing Hikari was what made me curious about this series in the first place.

Now I can't speak for Japanese fans but a lot of people on these boards wouldn't even acknowledge that Hikari was flawed because this was leading to a story of character growth. So is it that people want instant gratification with their characters or did they just not understand that Hikari's flaws were there for narrative purposes.
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Old 2013-12-28, 12:51   Link #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So what writing technique am I talking about? It's the one of starting a character from a very low point so that there's loads of character development potential with that character (it's crystal clear to me that this is exactly what Okada was aiming for with Hikari). But this technique obviously doesn't gel well with anime Blu-Ray/DVD buyers increasingly adhering to the 3 Episode Rule.

It's going to be interesting to see who buckles first in this conflict between anime writers and anime viewers - the anime writers who want to start low and gradually build up with their characters, or the anime viewers who want characters that they can easily like even in the early going.
The problem is that while people sure become used to 1 cour series, leading to fast expectations, the other way around is also an issue: knowing it is a 2 cour series, you naturally think it will go way slower than a 1 cour series. By this, if one of the main character is shown quite unlikable, it will lead to a natural expectation: so, since they have plenty episodes, wouldn't that mean his development will go quite slowly? Oh boy...
That's why characterization should be more elaborated early with a 2 cour series (that doesn't mean you need a metamorphosis within 3-5 episodes mind you), because if you stick with a brute impression in this fashion, it won't be appealing at all.
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Now I can't speak for Japanese fans but a lot of people on these boards wouldn't even acknowledge that Hikari was flawed because this was leading to a story of character growth. So is it that people want instant gratification with their characters or did they just not understand that Hikari's flaws were there for narrative purposes.
I keep seeing this kind of argument, and with all due respect, it becomes tiresome.

It is quite obvious right from the get go that Hikari was obnoxious for sake of potential character development.
The whole problem is, as Arya has explained already, that the series indulged way too much with a subtlety as close as a sledgehammer.

Right we know that Hikari is immature, of course he is considering he is only 13 years old, and that he lives in an environment that hardly encourage interactions with humans on the surface.
But that's also the fact that made the narration pretty risky and tiresome to a certain extent.

I'm baffled to see you and enzo saying that people wants "instant gratification" whereas you just need a gradual set of events/change around the second/third episode which arguable isn't equal to "instantaneous" nor does it need to show Hikari as grown up as of now. For instance, I and several people I know would be much less annoyed if the events of episode 4 were actually in episode 3.
The whole issue is that we already got the picture right from the few first minutes of episode 1, with Hikari patronizing Manaka left and right, while being extremely hostile towards Tsumugu and the rest. But when you rinse and repeat this formula without any restraint, it tires the audience, regardless if you are promised a development within few episodes or not.

That's why I kept mentioning the issue of the narrative and the lack of subtle approach. Do we really have to witness Hikari bossing around while Manaka is chickening out that much? Really?
I can't help but feel offended that you paint people not liking Hikari at the beginning because they "can't see he is flawed for sake of narration purpose". That's simply belittling no matter how you look at it. I personally see the point of Okada's approach, but I simply couldn't "enjoy" the way she did, and that didn't appeal to a lot of people, for good reasons.

Please for sake of discussion, do not claim things like "did they get it?" because at this point, I can only call that arrogance by claiming people were just fools not to realize what you saw.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-12-28 at 13:11.
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Old 2013-12-28, 12:56   Link #1149
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It wasn't really rinsed and repeated though. It lasted two and half episodes and then Hikari started getting over it.

And how exactly do you expect a character like Hikari to be subtle? The whole point is that he's loud and in your face, isn't it?
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Old 2013-12-28, 13:00   Link #1150
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
It wasn't really rinsed and repeated though. It lasted two and half episodes and then Hikari started getting over it.

And how exactly do you expect a character like Hikari to be subtle? The whole point is that he's loud and in your face, isn't it?
I personally felt it was going in circles way too many times (the whole deal with "tsugumu-kun" was quite major right from the start of ep2, and we know already he is that jealous by the end of ep1), especially how it was centred on Hikari rather than the kids group as a whole. To each their own I guess.

It isn't like you need the character to be subtle, but rather the presentation that needs to be subtle. Do we need to have Hikari on screen pulling a tantrum several times? I certainly would have liked some transitions with Chisaki and Kaname discussing about that. That would be 2 birds with 1 stone.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-12-28 at 13:14.
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Old 2013-12-28, 13:08   Link #1151
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think what we're seeing here is that the cutoff for how much an anime series can ask of an audience and still expect to sell Blu-rays is now so low that it's virtually impossible for anything that doesn't offer instant gratification to stay beneath it.
I don't think it needs instant gratification, but I do think the longer the anticipation for said gratification, the more the required level of gratification exponentially grows.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Or just being Mr. Perfect/ikemen kita!!!! *points at Tsumugu*
Just because he potentially makes both girls wet doesn't make him Mr. Perfect. For one, he seems to be emotionally stunted. Seriously, on a scale of -10 to 10, with 0 being indifferent, has he shown anything that'd register beyond +/- 1? Then he clearly has issues with his mother, if not both his parents, to the point that he made sure to meet up with her when he had friends present so he could use them as an excuse to get away (which he apologized to them for afterward, but he still did it).

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Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
For me, the only scene in this show that was genuinely misogynistic was when those old men were handling Akari after they found out she was dating someone from the surface. T
That was more xenophobic than misogynistic. It wasn't because she's a woman, but because he wasn't one of them.
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Old 2013-12-28, 14:16   Link #1152
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I don't think it needs instant gratification, but I do think the longer the anticipation for said gratification, the more the required level of gratification exponentially grows.
Maybe.

There have been many anime in the past that didn't seem like they were going to sell all too well, but then had that "one" episode that gets a scene posted on nico nico and goes viral and all of a sudden is the next otaku fascination.

To be perfectly frank, I think the otaku buyers market usually could care less about plot really. They don't care about characters being well developed, a well told narrative, or consistent themes.

To them, it's about having a series that in someway gives them otaku street cred. If the series manages to push the right buttons, that's what is important for them. Free was an aggressive fujiyoshi pandering show and despite being weaker in every way than Nagi no Asakura, it pushed the right buttons and sold well. Maybe people disagree with me about the quality of Free!, but I don't think anything about storytelling was involved that made it a good seller. Same goes for a huge chunk of series out there.
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Old 2013-12-28, 14:30   Link #1153
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
To them, it's about having a series that in someway gives them otaku street cred. If the series manages to push the right buttons, that's what is important for them. Free was an aggressive fujiyoshi pandering show and despite being weaker in every way than Nagi no Asakura, it pushed the right buttons and sold well. Maybe people disagree with me about the quality of Free!, but I don't think anything about storytelling was involved that made it a good seller. Same goes for a huge chunk of series out there.
I find extremely dubious to compare NnA with Free. The target audience is completely different.
To begin with, when was the truly fujoshi aimed series before free ever showed up? I dunno if you did your homework about this, but when you see how female otaku are spending, obviously the shift is incredibly different when things are appealing them, in contrast to the main market.

Otherwise, are you really implying AnoHana was pandering to attract a strong 20K sales benchmark, despite even Menma arguably doesn't follow the so called creed you are mentioning?

I believe this discussion should be continued in the BD/DVD sale thread at this rate.
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Old 2013-12-28, 14:40   Link #1154
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I keep seeing this kind of argument, and with all due respect, it becomes tiresome.
And with all due respect I will keep making the argument because I remember how people were reacting to Hikari in the beginning of this series. It was very similar to how people were reacting to Taichi in Chihayafuru.



Quote:
It is quite obvious right from the get go that Hikari was obnoxious for sake of potential character development. The whole problem is, as Arya has explained already, that the series indulged way too much with a subtlety as close as a sledgehammer.
It wasn't obvious for a whole lot of people on this thread who were convinced Hikari was not on the path to potential character development but was going to grow up to be a wife beater. People weren't complaining about the narrative they were out right character bashing.

And I completely disagree with you that Hikari's character development was thrown at me like a sledge hammer. It happened gradually throughout the 1st cour of the series with his growth accumulating in the final episode of the season.




Quote:
I'm baffled to see you and enzo saying that people wants "instant gratification" whereas you just need a gradual set of events/change around the second/third episode which arguable isn't equal to "instantaneous" nor does it need to show Hikari as grown up as of now. For instance, I and several people I know would be much less annoyed if the events of episode 4 were actually in episode 3.
Honestly I am baffled that you are really trying to say that it is such a major difference that Hikari started to develop in episode 4 instead of 3. If that is the problem then it certainly is what I would call instant gratification. (ignoring the fact that people have pointed out to you that his character development started earlier than this).
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Old 2013-12-28, 14:49   Link #1155
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Not really sure where Hikari dehumanized Manaka anywhere in the story or acted like she belonged to him.

I think you are missing the point of these characters. Manaka was shown to be the cry baby of the group and Hikari who was her friend since childhood grew to want to protect her and think she needs protection because of her own personality.
If Hikari wants to protect her because she's a cry-baby, how come the very first interaction we see between them is him doing something that's very obviously going to make her cry -- getting up in her face and yelling at her because she didn't go along with his plan to show up to school in their Shioshishio uniform? I don't see her reaction in that scene as being a cry-baby, but as the victim of a bully. And Hikari feels entitled to bully her for the same women the adults in town feel they can dictate Akari's life -- because the women are subordinate to the men and should do what they say.

Quote:
So where people are seeing misogyny I am at a loss. Because a kid wants to protect a girl he cares about is not misogyny. And yes Hikari had a pushy & bossy attitude but that is a result of being an immature kid not misogynist.
You don't think a boy raised in a misogynist society will display misogynistic traits in his interactions with girls?

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
When it comes to gender relations in this show, I think that Okada is simply writing what she knows - i.e. modern Japan. She's not sugarcoating it, and she's not really endorsing it, but she's also not actively critiquing it. She's just throwing it out there because that is what she knows ("write what you know" is one of the most tried, tested, and true standards for writing). This anime probably isn't intended to be a social satire on gender issues. That's probably outside the scope of what this anime is aiming for.
I disagree. The same themes were present in AKB0048, and related ones in Fujiko Mine and Aquarion EVOL. Even the adaptations she chooses to work on, like Wandering Son and Pet Girl, deal with gender and what's expected and accepted of men and women. I don't think she's just casually tossing these themes into the story -- they're something she cares about.

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Old 2013-12-28, 14:51   Link #1156
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
It wasn't obvious for a whole lot of people on this thread who were convinced Hikari was not on the path to potential character development but was going to grow up to be a wife beater. People weren't complaining about the narrative they were out right character bashing.

And I completely disagree with you that Hikari's character development was thrown at me like a sledge hammer. It happened gradually throughout the 1st cour of the series with his growth accumulating in the final episode of the season.
As far as the first impressions went, the vast majority expressed an obvious dislike for him, but was it character bashing? As far as it goes, people were more focalized on the shipping and "NTR" back with ep1. Hikari was obviously unpopular, but you make it sound like people wanted him to burn to ashes.
In fact, a good chunk of them also hoped he got a development, instead of completely forsaken him, so really I don't see the character bashing.

And you didn't see the problem I had with what I stated being a seldgehammer. What I really call the sledgehammer was how abrasive Hikari was, to the point the shows spells out "look, he is a brat. Hate him now!".
I never mentioned the development being sudden. What I mentioned is how Hikari and the others were arguably not subtle at all with obvious points leading to a polarizing impression instead of being layered.
And the other problem was how I felt the development was belated, not "sudden" nor "slow in its progression".
Quote:
Honestly I am baffled that you are really trying to say that it is such a major difference that Hikari started to develop in episode 4 instead of 3. If that is the problem then it certainly is what I would call instant gratification. (ignoring the fact that people have pointed out to you that his character development started earlier than this).
That's exactly because of the "3 episode rule", which means it spans over 3 weeks. If it was your usual marathon, you wouldn't really have trouble to soak a narrative of that kind, but it is a TV series, which actually means you are leaving the audience in 3 weeks with such issues at hand.
Since you were really bent to appreciate Hikari from the get go, it is obviously not affecting, but for those who aren't sold by his attitude, a "mere difference of 1 episode" is huge, especially when the series is followed on a weekly basis.

Imho, Hikari's development in ep3 was just the tip of the iceberg to me, as the real starter is ep4 in my case. While he certainly became uncertain with what's going on with Akari and her boyfriend, everything converged to Manaka's reaction towards Akari's banishment from their village. At this point, it was certainly a start, but was it really because he felt "surface guys aren't so bad after all"? Frankly, he warmed up to Tsumugu but past that it only got facilitated in ep4 in my books.

The reason for his development in ep3 and ep4 are not all the same, that's why I largely prefered how it was handled in ep4 than ep3.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-12-28 at 15:17.
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Old 2013-12-28, 15:13   Link #1157
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I step away from the thread for a day or so and an explosion of conversation takes place centered around the poor bd sales and re-cycling some of the old individual issues some viewers had with the series as well some viewers' overall issues!

Man.

Well, the old addage that "creative works should be taken as a whole" comes to mind, and I guess what surprised me the most was the decision to make bd vols available while the series is still airing. In this case it backfired. It is quite possible that had they made the bd vols available after the series was finished there would have been both more distance from the raw beginning and more visible development.

Doesn't help any saying anything like this after the fact or such, though. Still, I wonder why they decided to make them available earlier than at the end of the series?
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Old 2013-12-28, 15:21   Link #1158
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
If Hikari wants to protect her because she's a cry-baby, how come the very first interaction we see between them is him doing something that's very obviously going to make her cry -- getting up in her face and yelling at her because she didn't go along with his plan to show up to school in their Shioshishio uniform?
As I recall he wanted them all to dress in the under sea uniform because he had a prejudice and mistrust at that time for the land people. So yes it does come about wanting to protect Manaka from something he saw as bad. He thought in his mind that the 4 of them need to stick together as a group.

Of course his reasoning was completely off base. He was an immature brat but no I don't see anything misogynist here.

And I never said he wanted to protect Manaka so she doesn't cry. Instead he felt Manaka was "weak" and needed protection because she cries.

Quote:
You don't think a boy raised in a misogynist society will display misogynistic traits in his interactions with girls?
You keep saying this and yet nothing in the narrative supports that Hikari realized he was really being a sexist pig. His interaction changes with Manaka only but not with Chisaki, Akari, or Miuna. He comes to no realization about women or even how his society treats women.

Instead he comes to realizations (just a quick summary) that

1) He wants to support Manaka & that she is precious to him no matter what her decision is
2) That all this time he tried to protect Manaka she was protecting him.
3) He comes to care for and respect the land people
4) He comes to believe in the love between land & sea people through Akari's relationship and also realizes Tsumugu is a good guy and would not hurt Manaka.
5) And in the end he realized he was a noisy brat. "I see I was the one that was noisy".

So if the story was trying to say something about misogyny through Hikari I think it failed.



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Originally Posted by Klashikari
As far as the first impressions went, the vast majority expressed an obvious dislike for him, but was it character bashing? As far as it goes, people were more focalized on the shipping and "NTR" as far as I could read back with ep1. Hikari was obviously unpopular, but you make it sound like people wanted him to burn to ashes.
No I remember outright character bashing. I know because I started to watch the series based on the bashing of Hikari. I know that sounds silly but I got interested to see if he was really that bad and well I formed a very different opinion from a lot of other people on this thread.

So I don't think my whole thing about people not realizing where the narrative with Hikari was going is unfounded when I argued this same thing in the early episodes of the series.

Now like I said I don't mean you or that your complaint about the narrative is invalid. I disagree with you of course but your opinion is your opinion.


Quote:
That's exactly because of the "3 episode rule", which means it spans over 3 weeks. If it was your usual marathon, you wouldn't really have trouble to soak a narrative of that kind, but it is a TV series, which actually means you are leaving the audience in 3 weeks with such issues at hand.
Okay I know the whole 3 episode rule but I guess I never bought into it for myself. Frankly if I don't like a series narrative I would drop it at episode 1 not wait till 3 but that is just me.
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Old 2013-12-28, 15:35   Link #1159
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Originally Posted by Klashikari
As far as the first impressions went, the vast majority expressed an obvious dislike for him, but was it character bashing? As far as it goes, people were more focalized on the shipping and "NTR" back with ep1. Hikari was obviously unpopular, but you make it sound like people wanted him to burn to ashes.
In fact, a good chunk of them also hoped he got a development, instead of completely forsaken him, so really I don't see the character bashing.
I do remember someone who currently ships Tsumgu with Chisaki bashing Hikari and other named FredFriendly calling him future wife beater, racist, alcoholic and god knows what else I can't remember now.

So yeah, it was character bashing for the sake of it.



Right back on the writing of the show, the MAIN problem was that the scenes that were supposed to make Hikari look as a character that will grow made him look like a jerk without being one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ""Utsuro no Hako
If Hikari wants to protect her because she's a cry-baby, how come the very first interaction we see between them is him doing something that's very obviously going to make her cry -- getting up in her face and yelling at her because she didn't go along with his plan to show up to school in their Shioshishio uniform? I don't see her reaction in that scene as being a cry-baby, but as the victim of a bully. And Hikari feels entitled to bully her for the same women the adults in town feel they can dictate Akari's life -- because the women are subordinate to the men and should do what they say.
He didn't just wanted to protect her, he wanted her to "man up", of course she was a girl and one who cries at any situation like being left behind because she was late so showing off his rudeness didn't help at all.

That was far brom bully.

Quote:
You don't think a boy raised in a misogynist society will display misogynistic traits in his interactions with girls?
Yet he didn't. If he wanted her to obey him just because he is a boy and she a girl then he will treat Akari, Chisaki, Miuna and any other female the same way .


EDIT:

Oh scrap, Kirarakim made a better reply for you.
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Old 2013-12-28, 15:53   Link #1160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
No I remember outright character bashing. I know because I started to watch the series based on the bashing of Hikari. I know that sounds silly but I got interested to see if he was really that bad and well I formed a very different opinion from a lot of other people on this thread.
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Originally Posted by Birdway View Post
I do remember someone who currently ships Tsumgu with Chisaki bashing Hikari and other named FredFriendly calling him future wife beater, racist, alcoholic and god knows what else I can't remember now.

So yeah, it was character bashing for the sake of it.
I won't pretend there wasn't any character bashing. That said, it wasn't really apparant to me because there were like only 1-2 person doing this, contrary to much more who, indeed stated that Hikari is a jerk, but also hoped he would grow afterwards.

In a general sense, it confirms the thought I had that he made a very bad impression, but not to that "ugly extent" in generality, save for few persons. Note that I considered this discussion related to this thread, since Kirarakim did point the message board. I won't say anything about blogs and whatnot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Okay I know the whole 3 episode rule but I guess I never bought into it for myself. Frankly if I don't like a series narrative I would drop it at episode 1 not wait till 3 but that is just me.
For many of us, 1 episode is arguably not enough because it is only the introduction, and several series already proved that the first episode is arguably not relevant to the big picture of the said series (obvious example: Tower of Druaga). Likewise, unless the series is dishing out a major info dump / character parade, you don't learn enough to have an idea if you will definitely like it or not.

For instance, if I were to stick with only 1 episode, I would have dropped NnA already, and I think it is true for a lot of people because they would be stuck with "jerk Hikari" image.
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