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Old 2014-01-17, 15:58   Link #1581
DXMichael
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post

I don't see any indication at all that he "isn't trying." Do you really think he isn't visiting his grandfather? He was working on his grandfather's boat, so he couldn't go this time. And he is giving Hikari a bit of space, not attacking him immediately with questions. That's exactly what Akari asked people to do.
We don't see him visiting his grandfather either. It's only been Chisaki that has been shown. I didn't know working a boat took the whole 24 hours of a day. It's natural human nature to want to take some time out of their day to check on their loved ones that have been hospitalised, even for a few minutes.

As for not attacking Hikari, a simple hello and check up to my knowledge isn't an attack. He had two days to try and is was apparent, as said by Miuna, that he didn't attempt to drop in nor did it look like he was going to as he was still working on the boat before his little incident with Hikari. Do we even know if Tsumugu was around when Akari told certain people not to disturb him? As far as we know, he found Hikari. The next scene was then him telling Chisaki they had found Hiraki, therefore many possibilities could have happened that both involve him not even taking Hikari home himself or him not staying long enough to have a decent conversation with Akari. It isn't clear, so that means there's not a clear enough answer to the question.

Tsumugu is a character that is starting to narrow down his vision on one objective, and at the moment that is Chisaki. One could say he is trying, but only for what's best for her and her alone. His interactions with others are short, bland, sometimes straight to the point, and that makes his character look like he isn't trying if it isn't involving what's best for Chisaki and I don't like that. I want the old Tsumugu back who spoke to more people and the conversations didn't seem awkward or forced which is what lead to my previous comments yesterday.
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Old 2014-01-17, 16:53   Link #1582
kira22
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in a nutshell tsugumu declared himself in Chisaki, when he said that was beautiful ....
when she returned home from the reaction of tsugumu looked worried, she wanted to hide, perhaps because he thought that tsugumu became jealous and he suffered.
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Old 2014-01-17, 17:33   Link #1583
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This was a good return for Hikari. Everything built up until closer to the end when people's feelings were really coming out nice and clearly. No shock that Hikari was pretty overwhelmed at what happened. For him yesterday was an extremely traumatic incident with Manaka getting...taken away and everything going to hell. Then boom he's 5 years in the future. Sleeping or time travel it's pretty much the same effect for him. So on top of everyone being asleep, having no idea what's happened to Manaka, everything around him as changed.

A lot of understandable behavior especially from Hikari. I'm glad to see how well he's developed as a character. Had issues with him early and he developed nicely to this point. Now is a pretty likable character.

Of course Chisaki's side of it was pretty understandable. She ended up being the one that changed and of course was worried about how their friendship would turn out as well. No matter how time passes Hikari remains the kind of guy that can stabilize things. Got Chisaki's mood up and the fact that in a lot of ways she's the same was a relief for him as well.

Was pretty happy with Tsumugu in this episode as well. The anger at the claim that Chisaki was cold, being pretty honest with Chisaki, etc. Certainly is the guy that people can apparently blow up at. This time Hikari pretty well losing it and venting some of what was bothering him.

A pretty good episode overall. Now can get Hikari re-integrated back to school and maybe start waking up a few more people.
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Old 2014-01-17, 18:25   Link #1584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXMichael View Post
We don't see him visiting his grandfather either. It's only been Chisaki that has been shown. I didn't know working a boat took the whole 24 hours of a day. It's natural human nature to want to take some time out of their day to check on their loved ones that have been hospitalised, even for a few minutes.
I've had relatives in the hospital before. I would pay them visits now and then, as would other family members and friends, but aside from spouses nobody visited them every single day. Geez, man, you are holding Tsumugu to a rather high standard here.

And just because they didn't show Tsumugu visiting his grandfather on-camera doesn't mean he doesn't visit him at all. I'm pretty confident he does visit him sometimes.


Quote:

As for not attacking Hikari, a simple hello and check up to my knowledge isn't an attack.
Then why are you giving Chisaki a total slide here? She just happened to run into him near the end of the episode, and even when she did, it was Hikari who had to break the ice and take the lead in the conversation. It's not like Chisaki intentionally headed off to meet him.

Plus, we shouldn't overstate the bond between Hikari and Tsugumu. The two were friends several years ago, for a period of a few weeks (that's what it seemed like to me, anyway). It's not like they have a long history of friendship together. So I certainly don't think that Tsugumu is morally obligated to visit Hikari daily and check up on him frequently.

So of course Tsugumu is more focused on Chisaki than anybody else. Even putting aside his romantic feelings for her, he's been close to her for years. They've lived under the same roof for years. They're like family at this point.


Who would most people care more about - A step-sister that they've lived with for years, or a guy they were friends with for a few weeks back in middle school several years ago?
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Old 2014-01-17, 19:09   Link #1585
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Originally Posted by kira22 View Post
in a nutshell tsugumu declared himself in Chisaki, when he said that was beautiful ....
when she returned home from the reaction of tsugumu looked worried, she wanted to hide, perhaps because he thought that tsugumu became jealous and he suffered.
Her expression could mean anything. Plus you have to remember that the episode began on that same door, with Chisaki opening it without any hesitation to welcome Tsumugu, then the episode ended on the same scene, with inverted roles, having Tsumugu who opened the door (worried?) and Chisaki hesitating on that same door. Then the conversation.
It's really hard to infer anything right now, but that she is moving. If she is going forward or going back we will see sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Plus, we shouldn't overstate the bond between Hikari and Tsugumu. The two were friends several years ago, for a period of a few weeks (that's what it seemed like to me, anyway). It's not like they have a long history of friendship together. So I certainly don't think that Tsugumu is morally obligated to visit Hikari daily and check up on him frequently.
That's something I also thought, that their bond, not just with Hikari but with everyone, have never been so strong. Due to the short time they spend together and due to Manaka implications that surely didn't helped. If I'm not wrong during the city trip they didn't invite Tsumugu to go with them. Nothing wrong, since he wasn't so close. And as far as I remember the only one who really paid attention to him was only Chisaki.
So, despite I know that he should have gone to visit Hikari, just only for a few minutes I can understand him, he fears that things will change now that Hikari is back, and they will, hence his haste with Chisaki at the end of the episode.
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Old 2014-01-17, 19:14   Link #1586
DXMichael
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I've had relatives in the hospital before. I would pay them visits now and then, as would other family members and friends, but aside from spouses nobody visited them every single day. Geez, man, you are holding Tsumugu to a rather high standard here.

And just because they didn't show Tsumugu visiting his grandfather on-camera doesn't mean he doesn't visit him at all. I'm pretty confident he does visit him sometimes.
Hey, I never said everyday, but they've only shown Chisaki and haven't mentioned anything about Tsumugu. Until they mention or show anything, I personally can't be confident myself (Not saying that because I think he's heartless or anything, i'd just prefer a bit of proof )


Quote:
Then why are you giving Chisaki a total slide here? She just happened to run into him near the end of the episode, and even when she did, it was Hikari who had to break the ice and take the lead in the conversation. It's not like Chisaki intentionally headed off to meet him.

I'm not making my entire argument about Tsumugu not visting Hikari, all these posts have been me explaining and supporting my claim to why I'm not liking Tsumugu's character anymore. His interactions with characters and what he's becoming is pretty much what my posts are summing up. I'm annoyed at Chisaki for not meeting him either, but at least her character is interacting with other characters well, even if some people claim it to be a facade, at least it's her trying to be positive. Let's not forget, she at least had a good reason, this whole anime Chisaki has been worried about everyone changing and yet she believes herself that she was the one who changed whereas Hikari literally has not changed. After all her work, she become what she was trying to avoid.

Quote:
Plus, we shouldn't overstate the bond between Hikari and Tsugumu. The two were friends several years ago, for a period of a few weeks (that's what it seemed like to me, anyway). It's not like they have a long history of friendship together. So I certainly don't think that Tsugumu is morally obligated to visit Hikari daily and check up on him frequently.
It's as I said before though, Tsumugu is working on studying the sea, sea village and hibernation. Hikari is the first sea dweller to come out of hibernation, it would make sense for him to go to Hikari for information for his study. With the previous counter about Akiri's comment to hold back on doing things like that, my previous point still stands, we have no idea if Tsumugu was told this because we never saw how far he went after finding Hikari. We go from him finding Hikari, to him at his house telling Chisaki that Hikari is back. We have no idea what happened inbetween, so we have no idea whether he took Hikari back to Akari himself, or if he only stayed a short while and didn't get a chance to have a decent conversation with Akari.

Let's look at it from another point of view. Tsumugu is doing all he can do study the hibernation, maybe to find a quicker solution to wake them up or get to them so he can see his friends again. Here's Hikari, washing up on shore and staying in one household for roughly 2 days and yet no attempt to visit him is made and the scene after that, we see him on his boat again, which i'm going to assume is him not making a attempt to see Hikari again. Unless it benefits him and Chisaki as a couple, I can only see this as him not trying, hence forth the problem with him and other human interactions.

Quote:
So of course Tsugumu is more focused on Chisaki than anybody else. Even putting aside his romantic feelings for her, he's been close to her for years. They've lived under the same roof for years. They're like family at this point.
That doesn't justify his poor interactions with the other people we've seen him interact him. Once again, the same thing can be said about Chisaki who one would say is weaker than Tsumugu after everything that has happened, and yet she's able to interact with others fine.
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Last edited by DXMichael; 2014-01-17 at 19:44.
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Old 2014-01-17, 19:19   Link #1587
Kanon
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Originally Posted by DXMichael View Post
Tsumugu is a character that is starting to narrow down his vision on one objective, and at the moment that is Chisaki. One could say he is trying, but only for what's best for her and her alone. His interactions with others are short, bland, sometimes straight to the point, and that makes his character look like he isn't trying if it isn't involving what's best for Chisaki and I don't like that. I want the old Tsumugu back who spoke to more people and the conversations didn't seem awkward or forced which is what lead to my previous comments yesterday.
I'm sorry, but what's wrong with that? At least he has somebody he cares about now. That makes him a much better character than he was during the first cour in my opinion. Back then his only love was the sea and he didn't really get involved with anybody. He doesn't seem any more detached now than he was then. He has always been a man of few words who goes straight to the point. Personally, he's the character I can relate to the most.

And what do you mean he's not trying? What do you think he should try to do?

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Plus, we shouldn't overstate the bond between Hikari and Tsugumu. The two were friends several years ago, for a period of a few weeks (that's what it seemed like to me, anyway). It's not like they have a long history of friendship together. So I certainly don't think that Tsugumu is morally obligated to visit Hikari daily and check up on him frequently.

So of course Tsugumu is more focused on Chisaki than anybody else. Even putting aside his romantic feelings for her, he's been close to her for years. They've lived under the same roof for years. They're like family at this point.


Who would most people care more about - A step-sister that they've lived with for years, or a guy they were friends with for a few weeks back in middle school several years ago?
Yes, let's face it - Tsumugu and Hikari were never close. And let's not forget Hikari is his main rival now. There's no reason for him to try for his sake.
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Old 2014-01-17, 19:27   Link #1588
DXMichael
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I'm sorry, but what's wrong with that? At least he has somebody he cares about now. That makes him a much better character than he was during the first cour in my opinion. Back then his only love was the sea and he didn't really get involved with anybody. He doesn't seem any more detached now than he was then. He has always been a man of few words who goes straight to the point. Personally, he's the character I can relate to the most.
My posts have been explaining how I don't like his character interactions. He can go ahead and love and care for Chisaki, it's just his attitude towards everyone else that is making me hate his character. It's as if nothing else matters, young love is nice and all, but that shouldn't mean act differently towards everyone else.

Quote:
And what do you mean he's not trying? What do you think he should try to do?
Sorry, but I really don't want to explain all my posts again, you'll have to go back and read them if you really want to join the discussion.
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Old 2014-01-17, 20:00   Link #1589
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I'm sorry, but what's wrong with that? At least he has somebody he cares about now. That makes him a much better character than he was during the first cour in my opinion.
I agree. In the first half, he really was a bit of a Mr. Perfect. Sometimes he was a good foil for other characters, but he wasn't that interesting in and of himself.

Now I find him more interesting in his own right, and yes, relatable. He has specific goals, and a particular person that he cares extra about.
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Old 2014-01-17, 21:55   Link #1590
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What would Uroko's role in the second half? Will he have a more active role? Will he be an antagonist?
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Old 2014-01-18, 00:05   Link #1591
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really a good episode but I don't feel really satisfied with Akari's interaction with Hikari
it's her own little brother, her family that just got into accident but fortunately that he's just hibernating and still alive, but she just act indifferently... she was taking it hard after the accident happened and even going to search for them too when she's pregnant... I don't know, maybe I just hope too high for their interaction

but really, Hikari is still the most outstanding character here... A sudden change of 5 years which is actually a long time while he still remember the accident like yesterday, it's not surprising that he getd angry when Tsumugu points out he doesn't change at all (well of course, how can he change when he actually didn't do anything for 5 years), he's afraid to meet one of his childhood friends because it will more shocking than the other things, and finally how he learns to accept it and move forward to see everything that has been changed
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Old 2014-01-18, 04:00   Link #1592
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Finally caught up on recent ep, and I must say that I felt it was really well done. I really liked the interactions between everyone, and felt thr moment when Hikari and Chisaki unexpectedly met each other to be quite touching.

And I am liking Miuna more and more as well.

Oh, and I said it last ep, but I will say it again - I really like the new OP and ED!
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Old 2014-01-18, 04:37   Link #1593
kira22
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because Chisaki had hesitation in opening the door?
and because he had that look with tsugumu?
wanted to hide the fact the meeting with hikari? tsugumu or did not want it discovered?
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Old 2014-01-18, 10:45   Link #1594
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all crack pairing that people think of it in frist half of the series well happen now so in the end no one have the one they liked frist
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Old 2014-01-18, 10:54   Link #1595
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Originally Posted by DXMichael View Post
My posts have been explaining how I don't like his character interactions. He can go ahead and love and care for Chisaki, it's just his attitude towards everyone else that is making me hate his character. It's as if nothing else matters, young love is nice and all, but that shouldn't mean act differently towards everyone else.
My point is I don't think his attitude now is any different from before. He did smile more often, but that's because he wasn't in the same situation as he is now. His grandpa is in the hospital and he believes he's got no chance with the girl he loves, he doesn't have much reason to be upbeat. He's the kind of character that keeps everything to himself and suffers in silence. The way he is now is understandable, and I don't think he's hurting anybody besides himself so it's not a major issue yet. He isn't treating others any differently than before, he's always been kind of apathetic and indifferent (at least that's the impression I got). In the first cour, he was the just the guy who gave others advice, and he could do that because he was an outsider. Now he's right in the middle of a love triangle and he doesn't know what he should do anymore. For the first time in the series, he is confused, and that makes him more human and likable in my eyes.

Quote:
Sorry, but I really don't want to explain all my posts again, you'll have to go back and read them if you really want to join the discussion.
I've read them, and I don't get it. When it comes to the study of the sea, his much more experienced professor has already questioned and examined Hikari (or will soon, it wasn't clear how much work they did), so there's no reason for him to drop by Akari's house (as was already explained, Hikari and him aren't that close and they're now "rivals"). He isn't doing anything because there's nothing he can do at the moment besides waiting for Chisaki to sort out her feelings. Now that Hikari is back and the two have reconnected, he might go on the attack soon.

And while we haven't seen it in this episode, I'm pretty sure he's still working. His goal isn't to see his friends again, it's to reunite Chisaki with her friends and family. Yes, Chisaki is his main drive now, and I don't think that's a bad thing. His motivations are the same as Miuna's, he wants to protect the smile of the person he loves. What better motivation is there?
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Old 2014-01-18, 11:30   Link #1596
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My point is I don't think his attitude now is any different from before. He did smile more often, but that's because he wasn't in the same situation as he is now. His grandpa is in the hospital and he believes he's got no chance with the girl he loves, he doesn't have much reason to be upbeat. He's the kind of character that keeps everything to himself and suffers in silence. The way he is now is understandable, and I don't think he's hurting anybody besides himself so it's not a major issue yet. He isn't treating others any differently than before, he's always been kind of apathetic and indifferent (at least that's the impression I got). In the first cour, he was the just the guy who gave others advice, and he could do that because he was an outsider. Now he's right in the middle of a love triangle and he doesn't know what he should do anymore. For the first time in the series, he is confused, and that makes him more human and likable in my eyes.
I guess we see him differently. In the first cour I saw him as someone more approachable, someone who if talked to, would give a more engaging response. We see plenty of times where someone is upset, and he steps in, both on purpose and by accident, to give them advice. He wasn't afraid to interact with people who he doesn't even hang around with that much and have a say. Now all I see is him trying to do what's best for Chisaki without considering anyone elses feelings or opinion which from one point of view if you're supporting Chisaki, can look romantic and caring, but from another point of view if you care about other characters, can look selfish and annoying.


Quote:
I've read them, and I don't get it. When it comes to the study of the sea, his much more experienced professor has already questioned and examined Hikari (or will soon, it wasn't clear how much work they did), so there's no reason for him to drop by Akari's house (as was already explained, Hikari and him aren't that close and they're now "rivals"). He isn't doing anything because there's nothing he can do at the moment besides waiting for Chisaki to sort out her feelings. Now that Hikari is back and the two have reconnected, he might go on the attack soon.
A good point with the professor, I didn't think of that. Although my point still stands about his interaction with other people, I still can't bring myself to like his character at the moment until he starts showing better interactions with them.
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Old 2014-01-18, 11:37   Link #1597
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therefore, for you to try something for hikari Chisaki, that we are talking about hikari that two days earlier he had told Manaka still his love for her is cool is a life that he loves her, and then rejected Chisaki, and he will believe until the Manaka end that will come back, well I think so, can not disappear forever ...
and then the same Chisaki after all that he did, the fact of the boat to live with tsugumu five years and then you are not svillupato nothing between her and the same tsugumu.e then you might like to create something with a person who will not see nearly ever, different schools, different homes, different ages and different future, the future Chisaki created it, still no hikari.
comes a question: but many of you that you are watching anime?
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Old 2014-01-18, 12:16   Link #1598
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A good point with the professor, I didn't think of that. Although my point still stands about his interaction with other people, I still can't bring myself to like his character at the moment until he starts showing better interactions with them.
It's only been two episodes and he hasn't interacted with too many people, we need to wait a bit more before judging him. I think he's only temporarily upset by Hikari's return. For the first time in the series, he doesn't know how to deal with something so he can't give advice to others liked he used to. I'm sure he would have loved to help Miuna, but he simply didn't know how. He admitted he doesn't understand Chisaki and Hikari. He may be the one who needs advice now, in fact. We'll see what he does next week. If I had to guess, I'd say Hikari is the one who will help him understand why he needs to do.
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Old 2014-01-18, 12:29   Link #1599
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For the first time in the series, he doesn't know how to deal with something so he can't give advice to others liked he used to.
I thik it's the second time since he left his parents's home and went to live with his grandfather.
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Old 2014-01-18, 14:30   Link #1600
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nice use of reflections this episode. i thought it was very well done. really good drama.
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