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Old 2014-01-25, 16:27   Link #1761
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
See my point here is that this was not done prettily. Okada has the emotional subtly of a sledgehammer. Is Sayu justified for feeling wronged by Miuna's invitation to go out, only to be ignored? YES, I never said otherwise. Do I believe that someone would get that upset over it? Yeah maybe, but again this is obnoxious as hell to watch and is not the kind of drama that is enjoyable for me. I do sympathize with Sayu feeling bad about it, I do not sympathize with her actions thereafter which again, felt really silly and overly contrived.
To be honest, I still don't really get it. When we're talking about subtlety, what does that even mean in this context? I can't even see how it would be relevant at any point. There was a considerable amount of build up to Sayu's outburst that could be considered subtle, or at least as subtle as it's supposed to be. Was Sayu's outburst itself meant to be subtle? I don't know how you'd make a outburst like that subtle. The whole point behind it is that she lashes out over something silly and regrets it instantly, which would entail an outburst. Does that mean the outburst itself is a bad concept? If it is a bad concept then I don't think it's bad because it's melodramatic. The whole point is that it's supposed to be melodramatic. The whole point is that they're being melodramatic 14 year olds. At least that's how I interpreted it since it seemed to me that Hikari's perspective was meant to serve as an indication in how we were supposed to view it. And it's pretty clear that his perspective was something along the lines of "WTF?". I think making it into some sort of subtle masterpiece of drama would've been missing the point, especially for something that's meant to last half an episode. The real problem, I think, is whether or not the concept succeeds and convinces us that their melodramatic behaviour is an endearing trait (which was obviously not the case for some) since I'm pretty sure that's what the actual aim was.

Quote:
I think the moment a huge construction defect randomly fell down at the proper moment to have Sayu makeup with Miuna, the episode clearly lost its credibility. This is very similar to the worst of KEY's emotional manipulation where they randomly insert tragic drama events.
Like hell it is. The worst of KEY's emotional manipulation usually entails death or serious injury that causes the drama. Here the huge construct defect was merely meant to serve as a cheap device to toss Miuna into the sea and reveal her Ena. Sayu being concerned about Miuna is just a logical extension of that development.
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Old 2014-01-25, 17:35   Link #1762
deadite
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No one noticed the sensei finally got to eat with his students?
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Old 2014-01-25, 17:41   Link #1763
Triple_R
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Honestly, I think the conflict between Miuna and Sayu is there primarily for simple, old-fashioned character fleshing out.

Miuna's been upgraded from side-character to female lead, while Sayu has been upgraded from side-character to main cast character. So both of them need greater focus and fleshing out due to how they've become more important.
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Old 2014-01-25, 18:01   Link #1764
ices
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The 2nd ED will be released at 19th February. Here the TV-CM.

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Old 2014-01-25, 18:21   Link #1765
mirahh
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When do you think Hikari is going to let that cheerful facade fall?

Also, I'm happy that Kaname is back, but... is he really going to stay with Chisaki and Tsumugu? I mean, it makes sense, but I wonder if a situation will happen where he will try to force Chisaki and Tsumugu to admit their feelings for each other.
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Old 2014-01-25, 18:42   Link #1766
Ken Sanders
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Accepting reality is already a big step for Hikari. Chisaki and the rest have their own pace in life. So Hikari should go with his own pace.

Eventually, he and Kaname will reach them someday. But I'm not sure, though.

That's sounds just like like him. But is he willing to give it up the feelings he had for her just so that she could be happy with Tsumugu.

I can't picture a frustrated Kaname? Or is he going to?
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Old 2014-01-25, 20:06   Link #1767
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Originally Posted by ices View Post
That's interesting. I like this interpretation. Now, let's hear from them who dislike Miuna/Sayu or think that their character is bland to explain and give a point. I hope with that we not just get a one-liner insulting, but a proper discussion.

No, I'm not expect a heated debate, I just hope I could understand why some people dislike Miuna/Sayu? If you think their character bland what makes you though so? I'm Miuna fan hence I just have one-sided view, but I'll appreciate if someone gives a detailed explanation about their character flaws.
My major problem with Miuna is that she has no character arc other than "I lust after my uncle who doesn't see me that way". If you like that, more power to you, but I find it pretty boring. There's no discernible traits she possesses that could be of interest. She was interesting when she was young because she had her family drama. Now, though? She's an absolute bore. Her acquisition of ena makes her even far more unappealing than she was before.

Chisaki has her fear of change which makes her interesting and dynamic, her wavering heart too. Tsumugu has his avoidant personality issues with tons of unexplored family tension and his current research to find out what can be done about the Ice Age. Kaname has also family troubles (subtly hinted) and now he is displaced in time like Hikari, so both have an interesting arc. Manaka was the surface lover (not just because of her crush) who struggled to be brave and tried to keep her friends together.

I guess Sayu is just as bad as Miuna in some aspects, but at least she has an ambition of moving into the city and be a professional which I find endearing. But she is too largely defined by the guy she's crushing on. However, I think that's secondary to her friendship with Miuna (this isn't the same with Miuna, she's always put her friendship in the backburner for her current woes: Akari and now Hikari).

We haven't heard anything that stands out from Miuna unless it involves her uncle crush as top priority. She seems to me a dull character in a show full of a more colorful and engaging cast whose problems and dreams aren't limited to score with an old infatuation. Okada needs some work to make her a credible character again. I'm not averse to see it change, but it's worrisome that Sayu has gotten more fleshed out on this than Miuna. Let's see where this ena business will lead her, but an arc that isn't connected to her feelings for Hikari would be welcome.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-01-25 at 20:17.
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Old 2014-01-25, 20:49   Link #1768
Triple_R
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@Thess - Even though I like Miuna, I find your assessments of her and and the other characters to be pretty compelling. What I would say in Miuna's defense is that it's the way she helped resolve her family drama (in the first half of the show) that I think a lot of people found endearing. It was Miuna who showed the growth and self-awareness to realize she was in the wrong for treating Akari the way she initially did, and so Miuna turned over a new leaf because of it. Miuna had a lot of genuinely touching family scenes that made her likable to me, and to many viewers I think.

As it pertains to Hikari, him and Miuna had some very good scenes together in the first half that made the idea of a future romance between the two of them appealing to some of us (especially given the holding pattern that the Hikari/Manaka/Tsumugu love triangle had been in at the time). I also think that some of us like Miuna because of how she acts on her emotions and desires in a very forthright but also considerate way.

I kind of like how she's going about pursuing Hikari, even if it isn't meeting with the greatest of results so far. She's considerate of him and his feelings, but she's also keenly opportunistic (using CPR as a pretext to kiss him, using the pretext of "not getting lost" in suggesting holding hands with him). While writing that out, it does read kind of sleazy to me, but then Miuna sort of buys into her own pretext which makes it... more Ok, maybe? It's hard to put into words, but I really like her overall approach to balancing romantic pursuit with genuine consideration for the person she is pursuing. She balances this remarkably well, in a way that other characters in this show would probably be well-served to learn from.

All of the above being said, I get where you're coming from over how she's almost getting defined by her romantic desire for Hikari. Yes, her character could use a bit more diversity in her core goals and motivations. I think you summed up well the strengths of the other characters in that regard.

But here is where I think Miuna gaining ena could prove useful.


To touch on a keen distinction you made, I think you're right about the Miuna/Sayu friendship. That friendship is a top priority for Sayu, but a secondary one for Miuna. This is why I honestly pity Sayu a bit, as her best friend doesn't value their friendship quite as much as Sayu does. Now that I think of it, that gives an added wrinkle to the Miuna/Sayu conflict in this latest episode. Sayu being a third wheel on this trip is kind of reflective of where she's fitting into Miuna's life since Hikari returned.
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Old 2014-01-25, 21:05   Link #1769
deadite
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I think people should just give Miuna some time because they have clearly set her up as the new main heroine in Manaka's absence. I'm sorry if that doesn't jive well with some.
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Old 2014-01-25, 21:24   Link #1770
Dark Faith
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I think the moment a huge construction defect randomly fell down at the proper moment to have Sayu makeup with Miuna, the episode clearly lost its credibility. This is very similar to the worst of KEY's emotional manipulation where they randomly insert tragic drama events.
I cringed a bit at that point of the episode. It was far too convenient for the crane to give away and fall down on them exactly at that moment...
...still, it's ways away from KEY-induced drama. I get your point though.

I sure hope that Miuna gets some actual development soon. Hikari and Manaka were "annoying" at the beginning of the series but it was clear that they had room to grow, and they were slowly growing throughout the episodes. Miuna, on the other hand, feels completely static to me. Funny how hers and Sayu's positions reversed after the timeskip... I used to find Miuna endearing and Sayu annoying, now I'd rather have Sayu screentime than put up with Miuna.
At least we shouldn't be short on drama for the next episode now that the punching bag Kaname's back.
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Old 2014-01-25, 21:59   Link #1771
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
My major problem with Miuna is that she has no character arc other than "I lust after my uncle who doesn't see me that way". If you like that, more power to you, but I find it pretty boring. There's no discernible traits she possesses that could be of interest. She was interesting when she was young because she had her family drama. Now, though? She's an absolute bore. Her acquisition of ena makes her even far more unappealing than she was before.
Like I said. Miuna is the opposite of Manaka, since kid she always was steps ahead of others despite being an outsider of their world(the water bottles for example) and still is the same, it's just she now is a more prominent/principal character.

Now, she got ena, I only accept it because she is half sea/half land but you know what would be pure bullshit?
If there was a character who is only 1/4 sea and 3/4 land yet posseses ena, you know, someone like... Tsumugu .

Quote:
Chisaki has her fear of change which makes her interesting and dynamic, her wavering heart too.
Just that, being unable to change and after 5 years remains with the same mentality but now with boobs.

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Tsumugu has his avoidant personality issues with tons of unexplored family tension and his current research to find out what can be done about the Ice Age. Kaname has also family troubles (subtly hinted) and now he is displaced in time like Hikari, so both have an interesting arc. Manaka was the surface lover (not just because of her crush) who struggled to be brave and tried to keep her friends together.
Yet we will never get to know anything about that, it's been above 15 episodes and he still has this secret life, if the writer doesn't cares on exploring that, why should I care?

Quote:
Manaka was the surface lover (not just because of her crush) who struggled to be brave and tried to keep her friends together.
Manaka was the helpless girl, she didn't want but needed people caring after her. And when she started to move... drama and good bye Manaka.

Quote:
We haven't heard anything that stands out from Miuna unless it involves her uncle crush as top priority. She seems to me a dull character in a show full of a more colorful and engaging cast whose problems and dreams aren't limited to score with an old infatuation.
Wasn't Chisaki all about Hikari?

Wasn't Manaka all about her infatuation with Tsumugu?

Wasn't Tsumugu just(and still is) a shallow character?

Isn't Kaname's suffering because of Chisaki?

Doesn't Hikari had and still has issues her crush with Manaka?

Quote:
Okada needs some work to make her a credible character again. I'm not averse to see it change, but it's worrisome that Sayu has gotten more fleshed out on this than Miuna. Let's see where this ena business will lead her, but an arc that isn't connected to her feelings for Hikari would be welcome.
All of this show is about crush(es) and the big love polygon that it currently has. And that is the main reason 90% of the people watches the show.


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Originally Posted by deadite View Post
I think people should just give Miuna some time because they have clearly set her up as the new main heroine in Manaka's absence. I'm sorry if that doesn't jive well with some.
That's the problem, they don't want to accept it, Manaka is gone for now.Ironic, isn't? People refuses changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
To touch on a keen distinction you made, I think you're right about the Miuna/Sayu friendship. That friendship is a top priority for Sayu, but a secondary one for Miuna. This is why I honestly pity Sayu a bit, as her best friend doesn't value their friendship quite as much as Sayu does. Now that I think of it, that gives an added wrinkle to the Miuna/Sayu conflict in this latest episode. Sayu being a third wheel on this trip is kind of reflective of where she's fitting into Miuna's life since Hikari returned.
I'm sure that just because now Miuna has priorities doesn't means she doesn't cares about her friendship, if Sayu makes a deal about that after getting along together for more than 5 years then Sayu seriously has a confidence problem.
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Last edited by Miraluka; 2014-01-25 at 22:20.
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Old 2014-01-25, 22:37   Link #1772
Dark Faith
Often Disappointed
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Just that, being unable to change and after 5 years remains with the same mentality but now with boobs.
Can you blame her though? Pre-timeskip she was worried that they'd all wake up at different times and next they saw eachother they would've changed...

...and next thing you know, she was the only one in the group who didn't hibernate. The only one who changed.

So yes, she'll be worried about that when she meets them. They're exactly as they were 5 years ago. She isn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Wasn't Chisaki all about Hikari?
...and keeping the group together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Wasn't Manaka all about her infatuation with Tsumugu?
Considering how she tried to manage her supposed feelings for Tsumugu while trying to keep her friendship with Hikari going... No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Wasn't Tsumugu just(and still is) a shallow character?
He was Mr. Perfect on the first half. Now we're getting some insight on him. I don't think he's shallow.. a lot about him is still a mystery though.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Isn't Kaname's suffering because of Chisaki?
Being Kaname is suffering.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Doesn't Hikari had and still has issues her crush with Manaka?
Yeah, so? He did plenty of others things than obsessing over Manaka. That's exactly the point.
Post-timeskip, all Miuna ever says or does is related to Hikari. The rest of the cast may have had strong feelings towards someone else at some point, but their entire character wasn't defined by it. Take Hikari away from Miuna right now and what's left?

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
That's the problem, they don't want to accept it, Manaka is gone for now.Ironic, isn't? People refuses changes
Changes for the worse? Yeah, I'll refuse those. I don't even care about shipping. Miuna's just dull right now.
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Old 2014-01-25, 22:45   Link #1773
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by Dark Faith View Post
Can you blame her though? Pre-timeskip she was worried that they'd all wake up at different times and next they saw eachother they would've changed...
...and next thing you know, she was the only one in the group who didn't hibernate. The only one who changed.

So yes, she'll be worried about that when she meets them. They're exactly as they were 5 years ago. She isn't.
How she isn't when she has the same issues? Some people may look the same but can reach mental maturity at a surprising rate while some other people may grow in body but their mentality remains the same, and these bunch of last episodes shows how much she didn't change beyond that.


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...and keeping the group together.
And...?


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Considering how she tried to manage her supposed feelings for Tsumugu while trying to keep her friendship with Hikari going... No.
There was no danger of losing that friendship, even Hikari was open to accept if she went for Tsumugu.


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He was Mr. Perfect on the first half. Now we're getting some insight on him. I don't think he's shallow.. a lot about him is still a mystery though.
No, he at least showed more expressions and was more talkative now he really is Mr. Robot-kun,



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Being Kaname is suffering.
Okada plz.



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Yeah, so? He did plenty of others things than obsessing over Manaka. That's exactly the point.
There isn't to argue on this, it just proves my point though.

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Post-timeskip, all Miuna ever says or does is related to Hikari. The rest of the cast may have had strong feelings towards someone else at some point, but their entire character wasn't defined by it. Take Hikari away from Miuna right now and what's left?
And her mother and Akari too.

And what do you think Miuna has been doing 5 years without Hikari?

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Changes for the worse? Yeah, I'll refuse those. I don't even care about shipping. Miuna's just dull right now.
She just started as a mc, and is doing better than Manaka did on the first episodes of the first half, you know making people drop the show (bye-bye sales~).
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Old 2014-01-25, 22:52   Link #1774
Thess
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@Triple_R: I also liked Miuna when she was 9 years old and I was hoping she would wow me with the timeskip, but I'm met with an inferior version of the girl which is a little disappointing and disheartening. I do hope Okada is just starting her character arc and has just gotten started and wouldn't linger on the boring "my uncle doesn't want to date me" arc for a long time.

Sayu and Miuna friendship is pretty sad. Chisaki and Manaka did seem like strong friends, not perfect friends, but there was some level of equality. Sayu feels half of the time as her lackey than her friend. There's not the natural friendship chemistry and this is also a problem. I had hoped they had matured this aspect because friendship is very important for girls of their age.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Like I said. Miuna is the opposite of Manaka, since kid she always was steps ahead of others despite being an outsider of their world(the water bottles for example) and still is the same, it's just she now is a more prominent/principal character.
Manaka as the seemly childish but actually brave and mature girl while Miuna as the seemly mature but actually cowardly and immature girl? I can see that as contrast a little. Manaka was also the center of the group (her name means literally "center") while Miuna is a clear outsider.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Now, she got ena, I only accept it because she is half sea/half land but you know what would be pure bullshit?
If there was a character who is only 1/4 sea and 3/4 land yet posseses ena, you know, someone like... Tsumugu .
We don't know why she was granted ena yet. She drowned last time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Just that, being unable to change and after 5 years remains with the same mentality but now with boobs.
But Chisaki changed. You must be completely blind. Chisaki used to say she hated the surface dwellers and didn't need to live anywhere just wanted to stay the four of them forever. Now Chisaki isn't even seeking Hikari after his return. She considers the surface dwellers, specially Tsumugu who she was hostile against her family.

Her dread of change is associated to the loss of her loved ones and her comfortable bubble. She has changed. Hikari is trying to comfort her.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Yet we will never get to know anything about that, it's been above 15 episodes and he still has this secret life, if the writer doesn't cares on exploring that, why should I care?
Sounds like you're defensive about it. I care because it's not explored but an obvious pending emotional issue Chisaki knows about.

Kaname time drifter issues will be addressed next episode thank god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Manaka was the helpless girl, she didn't want but needed people caring after her. And when she started to move... drama and good bye Manaka.
Nice way to spell Miuna's name. Manaka is said in the show to be the girl who was always two steps ahead of the rest of them, leaving them behind. That was Hikari's fear: to be left behind.

Manaka was a crybaby who started as someone who was easily bullied into her change of fashion ended as someone who finished her last sentences without hesitation, became Hikari's protector, stood up and left school without permission of her teacher, started her own projects, pushed Chisaki to watch Tomoebi with her (as way she matured from the past), pursued her own dreams and courageously saved Akari (and thus Miuna's happiness) without the need of anyone. All of this not even related to the guy she wanted to snog which was still a pending issue.

Far far more dynamic than the current dull and uninteresting Miuna arc. Until Okada bothers to write her as character again I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Wasn't Chisaki all about Hikari?
No, she wasn't. Chisaki never cared for Hikari as much as she did for her fear of things to change between the group. She spends a lot of time thinking about Manaka, feeling offended/attracted with Tsumugu and hanging with Kaname. Miuna since the second half began spends 90% of her time mooning about Hikari, someone she knew for months (at most) 5 years ago. She's also devastated by the loss of her entire world, suffering a trauma about losing more fmaily again.

Hikari was at least Chisaki's childhood friend. It's like no comparison here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Wasn't Manaka all about her infatuation with Tsumugu?
No, she wasn't. Manaka never cared for Tsumugu as much as she did for her attraction and love for all things on the surface. She even draws the comparison herself, Tsumugu is like the sun she admired as a child. Manaka has always wanted to be part of the surface, look at her trying to mingle in before meeting Tsumugu. Tsumugu gave her a push to pursue what she wants. She was also the one who declared she wanted to protect Hikari, eventually came to see him as a man, she was the one trying to help unsolicited Chisaki's love life, wanted to make paces with her. She was the one who grew up and matured, casting her crybaby cowardice because she wanted to protect people's happiness.

She was worried, like everyone in the end, not about who she was going to end up with but because of the disaster coming at their direction and the hibernation that would separate them from their loved ones.

Mind you, when I say Chisaki and Manaka "don't care" I mean as real romantic feelings and not infatuation to a dear friend.

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Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Wasn't Tsumugu just(and still is) a shallow character?
Are stoic characters hard for you to comprehend? Tsumugu's a compelling character: a land-person (1/4 sea, but there's no sea traits on him, you can see it by his brown eyes) who loves the sea more than the sea people do. He's wise and observant, offers advice but at the same time immature, avoids problems and represses his feelings when they are hutrful. He avoids his mother, he avoids (seemly) to visit his grandfather in the hospital, he avoids and puts a wall on Chisaki when he has obvious feelings for her. He has all his issues addressed and waiting to explode, like his anger gesture at the professor when he called Chisaki cold.

He's also extremely helpful but not in an obvious boasting way as Hikari or Kaname are. He quietly shows this by helping to build the pools without telling them, volunteering for the ceremony, studying oceanography to help the sea people and unravel the mystery of the Ice Age. This is a current storyarc of his, in addition to his family issues and his feelings for Chisaki.

He has, on the narrative, far more to offer than Miuna right now. Sorry to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Isn't Kaname's suffering because of Chisaki?
We don't know how Kaname will suffer in the future since he just returned. In the past, he suffered not just because of Chisaki. He also was the one who wanted people to stop beating around the bush and appreciated their quartet of friends.

He's misplaced in time, he'll have more issues than just Chisaki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraluka View Post
Doesn't Hikari had and still has issues her crush with Manaka?
Yes and? Again, Hikari was more than just his crush on Manaka. Hikari was a bully, rude immature kid who was prejudiced against the people of the surface. He grew up, befriended and supported them. Right now, he's not just mooning over Manaka but feels like he walked out time and is confused, disoriented and scared about change.

Miuna, so far, only shows her storyarc is about her crush on her uncle. That's it (and believe me, I wish it wasn't). There's a difference between multifaceted characters I listed and this uninspired arc. That's why we hope the ena arc goes somewhere more compelling. Not that Sayu's in a better position, but at least she has show ambition aside of her crush on Kaname. Teenage Miuna is a wet blanket. She used to be a compelling character when she was younger, hopefully she'll return to be like that soon.

I ignore the rest of your post because it sounds like someone is projecting their issues on me.
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Old 2014-01-25, 23:11   Link #1775
Miraluka
18 forever
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
We don't know why she was granted ena yet. She drowned last time.
Blame the writer.

Quote:
But Chisaki changed. You must be completely blind. Chisaki used to say she hated the surface dwellers and didn't need to live anywhere just wanted to stay the four of them forever. Now Chisaki isn't even seeking Hikari after his return. She considers the surface dwellers, specially Tsumugu who she was hostile against her family.
Hikari was the one who started to that change, he influenced them all.

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Her dread of change is associated to the loss of her loved ones and her comfortable bubble. She has changed. Hikari is trying to comfort her.
If Hikari does that, that's because the change didn't go well with her.


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Sounds like you're defensive about it. I care because it's not explored but an obvious pending emotional issue Chisaki knows about.
No, I forced you to say this because you can pretty much throw a subplot about Miuna using that same logic.

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Kaname time drifter issues will be addressed next episode thank god.
Yeah.


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Nice way to spell Miuna's name. Manaka is said in the show to be the girl who was always two steps ahead of the rest of them, leaving them behind. That was Hikari's fear: to be left behind.
Because she was the MC which kind of MC isn't?

Btw, don't play with that, it's lame.


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Manaka was a crybaby who started as someone who was easily bullied into her change of fashion ended as someone who finished her last center, became Hikari's protector, stood up and left school without permission of her teacher, started her own projects, pushed Chisaki to watch Tomoebi with her (as way she matured from the past), pursued her own dreams and courageously saved Akari (and thus Miuna's happiness) without the need of anyone. All of this not even related to the guy she wanted to snog which was still a pending issue.

Far far more dynamic than the current dull and uninteresting Miuna arc. Until Okada bothers to write her as character again I suppose.
You're giving to much credit to Manaka who had more room for development .

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No, she wasn't. Chisaki never cared for Hikari as much as she did for her fear of things to change between the group. She spends a lot of time thinking about Manaka, feeling offended/attracted with Tsumugu and hanging with Kaname. Miuna since the second half began spends 90% of her time mooning about Hikari, someone she knew for months (at most) 5 years ago. She's also devastated by the loss of her entire world, suffering a trauma about losing more fmaily again.
She had an inferiority complex, to her Manaka always was better.

That second half you like to use as argument has no more than 3 episodes, you know?

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Hikari was at least Chisaki's childhood friend. It's like no comparison here.
And your point is?


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No, she wasn't. Manaka never cared for Tsumugu as much as she did for her attraction and love for all things on the surface. She even draws the comparison herself, Tsumugu is like the sun she admired as a child. Manaka has always wanted to be part of the surface, look at her trying to mingle in before meeting Tsumugu. Tsumugu gave her a push to persue what she wants. She was also the one who declared she wanted to protect Hikari, eventually came to see him as a man, she was the one trying to help unsolicited Chisaki's love life, wanted to make paces with her. She was the one who grew up and matured, casting her crybaby cowardice because she wanted to protect people's happiness.
Yet she managed to fully accomplish all that? All was left on intentions and now look at the current outcome/situation.

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Are stoic characters hard for you to comprehend? Tsumugu's a compelling character: a land-person (1/4 sea, but there's no sea traits on him, you can see it by his brown eyes) who loves the sea more than the sea people do. He's wise and observant, offers advice but at the same time immature, avoids problems and represses his feelings when they are hutrful. He avoids his mother, he avoids (seemly) to visit his grandfather in the hospital, he avoids and puts a wall on Chisaki when he has obvious feelings for her. He has all his issues addressed and waiting to explode, like his anger gesture at the professor when he called Chisaki cold.
There are lots of stoic character who manage to do more than him, and I can find them even in games(Persona for example and I don't mean their stoic main characters btw).

Nothing is on stone, not with the writer we have here.

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He's also extremely helpful but not in an obvious boasting way as Hikari or Kaname are. He quietly shows this by helping to build the pools without telling them, volunteering for the ceremony, studying oceanography to help the sea people and unravel the mystery of the Ice Age. This is a current storyarc of his, in addition to his family issues and his feelings for Chisaki.

He has, on the narrative, far more to offer than Miuna right now. Sorry to say.
He is soo helpful that nothing is done yet, results vs intentions.

Yeah , yeah, I know you hate Miuna, get over it.

Sigh, this reminds me a lot when the series started and people were bashing Hikari who just started as main character and obviously had room to grow.

Aren't you just being impartial like those people?

Btw, do I need to remind you(again) she just started as MC? All of those other characters had more than 13 episodes to slowly show what they had to show.


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We don't know how Kaname will suffer in the future since he just returned. In the past, he suffered not just because of Chisaki. He also was the one who wanted people to stop beating around the bush and appreciated their quartet of friends.

He's misplaced in time, he'll have more issues than just Chisaki.
But doesn't changes the fact she will be the main issue.

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Yes and? Again, Hikari was more than just his crush on Manaka. Hikari was a bully, rude immature kid who was prejudiced against the people of the surface. He grew up, befriended and supported them. Right now, he's not just mooning over Manaka but feels like he walked out time and is confused, disoriented and scared about change.
Just because he doesn't shows it, it doesnt's means he doesn't feels it if the op is any indication.

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Miuna, so far, only shows her storyarc is about her crush on her uncle. That isn't. There's a difference between multifacet characters I listed and this uninspired arc. That's why we hope the ena arc goes somewhere more compelling.
How long is her story arc?

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I ignore the rest of your post because it sounds like someone is projecting their issues on me.
At least try to sound a bit more impartial about development or you will just look like just bashing a character you don't like .


TL;DR:

You are just comparing a character who was a main character for the first half(plenty of room for development) yet you show your dislike/hate towards a character who just has started as main character for the second half(still has room for development).
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Last edited by Miraluka; 2014-01-25 at 23:33.
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Old 2014-01-26, 00:16   Link #1776
Solace
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Okay, everyone's had a chance to cool off hopefully. Thread's reopened.

I have no problem locking the thread again if people can't learn to take a break and walk away from discussions for a bit. Not everything needs a response.

Carry on.
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Last edited by Solace; 2014-01-26 at 02:58.
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Old 2014-01-26, 03:41   Link #1777
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Old 2014-01-26, 09:52   Link #1778
ReinhartX
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is there any news regarding release of the anime's OST?
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Old 2014-01-26, 21:33   Link #1779
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Some people can't get that not everything is explained right away.
Such times. Shingeki threads suffers same thing.
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Old 2014-01-27, 01:52   Link #1780
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I always see you posting nice pics. Keep it coming!

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Originally Posted by bastek66 View Post
Some people can't get that not everything is explained right away.
Such times. Shingeki threads suffers same thing.
Everybody loves to scream plot hole even though the show is not over yet. It will never change.

Kaname shouldn't even come back. He's gonna suffer the most. Seeing Tsumugu and Chisaki closer than ever.
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