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Old 2014-01-29, 10:27   Link #1821
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Just to clear my position, I have nothing against making characters suffer if it is supported by the context. For the same reason, and I'm derailing a bit from your point, I disagree putting Noe and Zessica on the same level.
They both are examples of Okada's fondness for a particular type of narrative.

Spoiler for Implied Aquarion EVOL/True Tears spoilers:


I think this is something that Okada likes coming back to time and time again - Characters having to deal with not getting the romantic relationships that they want. In fact, I see a lot of this in Nagi no Asukara.

Does this mean that Miuna doesn't have any chance? No.

But it does mean that I think this is where Okada is going with her, as it fits with Okada's tendencies as a writer, and the sort of characters and ideas that she likes to explore. So, on the whole, I think this is the more likely route for Miuna to end up taking.

In my mind, it's kind of like expecting very bad things to happen to a major protagonist in a Gen Urobuchi work. Is it 100% guaranteed that such very bad things will happen to that character? No, but it's more likely than not. And I feel much the same way here.

But you never know. The next two or three episodes should be telling, imo.
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Old 2014-01-29, 10:38   Link #1822
kira22
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I think kaname will waive Chisaki, she rejected him 2 times 5 years fa.Per Chisaki, kaname is like a brother that's all ... for sure kaname will give an account to try something Chisaki for tsugumu, as he did with the same kaname hikari and Manaka, kaname can be defined as a kind of Cupido.e then there sayu
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Old 2014-01-29, 10:50   Link #1823
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I suppose this is subjective, personally I think it's pretty soapish. Definitely nothing close to "subtle"... I mean, consider Kaname. Guy spends all of his life pining after a girl that he know likes another guy and he has no chance(!). So then he sees her being worried for yet another guy(!) so he lets go of his life(!), but then he comes back(!) 5 years later only to see that she's all grown up(!) and she lives together with said guy(!) that she now has a semi-romantic relationship with(!) and I bet anything he'll end up living with them(!) while there's another girl pining after him(!!!!)... yeah.

As for Miuna and Sayu, it's not the misunderstanding, it's all the screaming and bawling, and the fact that yet again everything seems to come back to romance.
It's definitely a bit soapish but even with all that, you have to admit it's still a major improvement over Okada's previous shows like AnoHana or Black Rock Shooter (god, I shudder just remembering them ) which were melodramatic to the max. The drama in Nagi no Asukara is almost subtle in comparison. It hits the right note for me (when she was their age, my sister's outbursts were just as bad if not worse than anything we've seen from Sayu and Miuna so I think they're acting like normal teenagers), but obviously it's different for everybody.
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Old 2014-01-29, 11:14   Link #1824
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
You missed the point of the quote, though - "in order that the reader may see what they are made of". It's not suffering for suffering's sake, not angst for angst's sake. The angst and suffering has to have a point. Since we were talking about EVOL, any point Zessica's suffering might have had was completely lost in all the wangst, and we never learned anything about her through her ~pain~. (In fact, we never learned anything substantial about her, period.) And there's also storytelling to consider - let's not even mention the fact that Zessica's over the top angst drew people's attention away from basically everything else.
This. This is exactly what I was implying. And the reason why I nitpicked about Zessica and Noe. Zessica is the epitome of suffering for suffering's sake where Noe is not. They are like at the opposite of that spectrum IMHO
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Old 2014-01-29, 11:31   Link #1825
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Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:
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Old 2014-01-29, 11:32   Link #1826
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
You missed the point of the quote, though - "in order that the reader may see what they are made of". It's not suffering for suffering's sake, not angst for angst's sake.
Seeing what they're made of doesn't always have a positive meaning of inspirational overcoming. It can also have a negative meaning of showing a character slowly get destroyed because he or she just can't handle the suffering. I mean, that's often what you see in a classic tragic story.

But I will admit that even here Okada missed the ball a bit in Zessica's case.

Spoiler for Aquarion EVOL spoilers:




Quote:
I suppose this is subjective, personally I think it's pretty soapish. Definitely nothing close to "subtle"... I mean, consider Kaname. Guy spends all of his life pining after a girl that he know likes another guy and he has no chance(!). So then he sees her being worried for yet another guy(!) so he lets go of his life(!), but then he comes back(!) 5 years later only to see that she's all grown up(!) and she lives together with said guy(!) that she now has a semi-romantic relationship with(!) and I bet anything he'll end up living with them(!) while there's another girl pining after him(!!!!)... yeah.

As for Miuna and Sayu, it's not the misunderstanding, it's all the screaming and bawling, and the fact that yet again everything seems to come back to romance.
I get your point. Okada struggles with the concept of "moving on".

To be fair, anime as a whole is somewhat like this. Think of all the childhood promises between a boy and a girl that are supposed to still mean something many years later when they're teenagers/young adults.
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Old 2014-01-29, 11:46   Link #1827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Seeing what they're made of doesn't always have a positive meaning of inspirational overcoming. It can also have a negative meaning of showing a character slowly get destroyed because he or she just can't handle the suffering. I mean, that's often what you see in a classic tragic story.
I agree with this very much so. Sometimes finding out what someone is made of means they come out stronger with guns a blazing, and sometimes they crash and burn. Both outcomes being realistic portrayals of real life. Granted I understand that often when it comes to stories people would rather see the former happen then the latter. Especially if the problem the character is suffering over is considered minor by the audiences standards.
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Old 2014-01-29, 13:16   Link #1828
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Seeing what they're made of doesn't always have a positive meaning of inspirational overcoming. It can also have a negative meaning of showing a character slowly get destroyed because he or she just can't handle the suffering. I mean, that's often what you see in a classic tragic story.
I never said anything about positive meanings or "inspirational overcoming", though? I only said that the suffering and angst needs to have a point, whatever that point may be, and it needs to be supported by characterization, context and storytelling. Destroy a character, sure, knock yourself out, but make it have a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I get your point. Okada struggles with the concept of "moving on".
That wasn't really the point I was trying to make... But anyway, the problem is not one thing in itself, it's when they start to pile up for most of the cast...
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Old 2014-01-29, 18:25   Link #1829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:
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Old 2014-01-29, 20:03   Link #1830
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I was just thinking of how some of these relationships will go. I'm pretty sure Kaname has no chance with Chisaki, he is way too underdeveloped from the viewers perspective to be with her. I will be interested to see if anything happens with Sayu at all, since that is pretty much for me the same place as Miuna x Hikari.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Extending a bit what I was saying, to me the matter it's more close to the way she writes than what she writes. That surely comes along with Triple_r's very good analysis about subtle and "open book" distinction. Keeping in mind that the latter is harder to write than the former.

On a very side note I never could watch again (Kanon) a KEY's related series. And I tried. No, to be correct I did watch Angel Beats!. And it ended to be the unique PAW series I do not consider as a PAW work. I don't know, it lacked the usual PAW charm that even RDG, as forgettable as it was, had.
Really? what didn't you like about it. Feel free to PM me since it would be OT I hope it was the 2006 version you watched at least lol.
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You have to, they do look beautiful!!
I'll give it a shot b
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Old 2014-01-29, 21:38   Link #1831
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:
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Old 2014-01-29, 21:39   Link #1832
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Subtle and this writer can't go together it seems


Anyway I saw the sinopsis and... despite it talks about Kaname there isn't a single image about him... poor guy.


Oh, and amnesia... Seriously?


That just screams 'suffer more Kaname, moar!' here I'm betting Kaname might end up falling again for Chisaki only to end unrequited again and after regaining his memories Kaname's will explode into tiny pieces onces she adds his new memories that features Tsumugu living with Chisaki to his former memories from the Ofuneki

Being Kaname is pain. Maybe the writer wants to drive him into suicide?
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Old 2014-01-30, 01:32   Link #1833
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Personally I don't see that much melodrama in this. ... The Nagi no Asukara characters are pretty stable
Yeah, I agree with Kim. With few exceptions, I think this series is quite low-key.

Real Life: The world completely flips its shit over Y2K
Nagi no Asukara: The characters discuss their feelings concerning the upcoming apocalyptic scenario in nothing but smooth, dulcet tones (well, with the exception of Manaka crying on the balcony during that one party)

Or, on a smaller scale, I think the kids handle their feelings and group dynamics with quite a lot of grace. I don't remember Hikari raising too much of a stink over the fact that Manaka seems to be lusting over Tsumugu early on. Kaname takes in stride the fact that Chisaki fumbles around both times he confesses to her. Chisaki doesn't really show any outward hurt whenever Hikari passively rejects her outside Nami Junior High. The weakest link would probably be Manaka, who makes things more hurtful than they have to be with incidents like the time she pushes Hikari away - but even she gets herself squared away pretty quickly and moves on to act constructively, seeing as it's not too long afterwards that she gives the cryptic hint to Hikari about (presumably) confessing to him after the Onifukuhei (and I'm sure I spelled that wrong).

If I was a part of this group of friends (hopefully someone outside the love triangle square polygon whatever the hell shape would be used to quantify this mess), I'd probably admire them when looking back for handling a very ugly and delicate situation quite well.

But yeah, although I'm sure that I could think of a handful of scenes or character moments that lay things on too thickly (Akari's meltdown at the end of one of the early episodes comes to mind, along with Mineshigi's anguished declarations of love after Miuna spurns him), on the whole I actually think Nagi no Asukara is pretty mellow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple
I think this is something that Okada likes coming back to time and time again - Characters having to deal with not getting the romantic relationships that they want. In fact, I see a lot of this in Nagi no Asukara.
Nagi no Asukara could be renamed to "Everyone Breaks Everyone Else's Heart" and it would be a very accurate title. Akari and Itaru have no idea how lucky they are - mutual feelings in this series are a very rare thing. Or, if your feelings towards someone are requited, that person will either die long before their time and leave you a single parent, or be smashed against the bottom of the sea.
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Old 2014-01-30, 01:50   Link #1834
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Old 2014-01-30, 01:57   Link #1835
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Nagi no Asu Kara: A Lull in the Sea, Loud Noises on Land.
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Old 2014-01-30, 05:06   Link #1836
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:

Now, I've derailed the discussion far enough, so better I go back focusing on the show since is about to be aired. I just hope that we could finally focus a bit on Chisaki

@Leo_Otaku: nope, 2002 version in all its glory! To make it short it's definitely not my cup of tea. From every angle.
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Old 2014-01-30, 05:59   Link #1837
ices
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Manaka's ear accessories.
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Old 2014-01-30, 07:02   Link #1838
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Spoiler for True Tears and Aquarion EVOL:

Now, I've derailed the discussion far enough, so better I go back focusing on the show since is about to be aired. I just hope that we could finally focus a bit on Chisaki

@Leo_Otaku: nope, 2002 version in all its glory! To make it short it's definitely not my cup of tea. From every angle.
For the record, despite my misgivings about the way Noe was handled towards the end, I also thought she was a solid character overall and definitely far more solid than Zessica. And I also agree that Zessica's character was a bit of trainwreck confounded by the fact that the canon couple was nowhere near as strong as the canon couple in True Tears. I just disagree that the angst was the issue. This is all besides the point anyway: the only reason I mentioned the two in the same sentence was because I thought they had similar roles aas "romantic losers" (can't think of a better term). Whether or not those roles were handled well is another matter.
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Old 2014-01-30, 08:28   Link #1839
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Old 2014-01-30, 09:35   Link #1840
kira22
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I am not understanding anything about Chisaki?
do not tell me that after 5 years under the same roof as tsugumu.chisaki still has feelings for Hikari? do not understand those looks
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