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Old 2012-11-08, 15:33   Link #2941
Xacual
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That Human Trafficking proposition is a good example of people falling for the name of the proposition and not reading what's actually in it. I voted against it because it's pretty much bullshit.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:38   Link #2942
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
That Human Trafficking proposition is a good example of people falling for the name of the proposition and not reading what's actually in it. I voted against it because it's pretty much bullshit.
It reads pretty decent!
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:43   Link #2943
Reckoner
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Yeah I voted against it. It seems ironic to me that we did three strikes reform and at the same time created another harsher penalty in our law for certain criminals. It has been proven that even stricter punishments have not done anything to decrease crime and we already have Federal laws to deal with this shit so the law is pretty much pointless.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:58   Link #2944
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/r...-election.html

Hre is a nugget from said article:

That does not mean the GOP must offer up amnesty. It does mean that a group that is a natural fit for the GOP on social issues, must in someway be made to feel comfortable with the GOP."

Such raw honesty from a politician is rare, they basically want to trick latinos into voting for republicans without embracing them. I know public education in the USA is on the decline, but latinos will not vote in droves for candidates that do not embrace them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Is warming going to permanently destroy the planet like some of the AGW proponents have been saying? not remotely true, unless we're all living on a planet that has already been destroyed multiple times
How about five? If you meant totally destroyed then you are right, that only happened once.

@GundamFan0083 about ammo shortage

My theory is that international drug cartes are buying all the ammo in your area (paying way more than retail price), so the local law enforcement does not really know why it is happening or are telling you what they think you would accept without a second thought. Therefore IMO it is non political issue.
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Old 2012-11-08, 16:21   Link #2945
monir
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Whether global warming can destroy the planet or not doesn't really matter much, does it? The question is can the fragile humanity go along for the ride all intact as earth does its thing. The earth has been spinning for few billion years and went through a lot. Humanity existed for 5 million (or 5000) years at most. And if we want to exist for a little bit longer, trying to answer those questions with some urgency probably isn't too bad an idea. A fairly regular and a simple event such as ice age in the grand scheme of earth's cycle can (and will) wipe out most human population from the earth.
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Old 2012-11-08, 16:50   Link #2946
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Saying "global warming is destroying the planet" is a red herring. The earth will toddle along merrily, the question is, will the higher life forms (including us) have fun or be miserable because ... say, much of the agricultural zones go to hell? That unpredictable superstorms decimate the infrastructure we use to get along?

Do we want to take mitigating preventative measures or just wait til the crocodiles are "taking the young in the night"?
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:12   Link #2947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Saying "global warming is destroying the planet" is a red herring. The earth will toddle along merrily, the question is, will the higher life forms (including us) have fun or be miserable because ... say, much of the agricultural zones go to hell? That unpredictable superstorms decimate the infrastructure we use to get along?

Do we want to take mitigating preventative measures or just wait til the crocodiles are "taking the young in the night"?
oh i think we will survive and adjust but there are going to be a lot of people with un-happy beach house purchases. people will also have to adjust their notion of what is food.

which is why i am investing in potatoes.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:14   Link #2948
Reckoner
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Is there even enough scientific evidence to suggest that humans have a real and clear impact on global warming?

From what I've been able to muster, the answer is debated by scientists. The reality is that global warming is a real phenomenon that we need to deal with, but how much do we really impact it?

Should we be more geared to trying to deal with the natural effects of global warming, or trying to slow down human impact (If it really does)?
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:16   Link #2949
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Saying "global warming is destroying the planet" is a red herring. The earth will toddle along merrily, the question is, will the higher life forms (including us) have fun or be miserable because ... say, much of the agricultural zones go to hell? That unpredictable superstorms decimate the infrastructure we use to get along?

Do we want to take mitigating preventative measures or just wait til the crocodiles are "taking the young in the night"?
Red herring isn't strong enough. It's a blatant combination of a misinformation campaign and a lack of understanding regarding the interaction of elements of a complex system.

Humans do play a part in climate change, because they directly influence the environment. So do all animals. When bees die, pollination drops off, plants die. When deer reproduce too much, you get mass die offs, disease, etc., When cows fart, you get increases in methane gas. Human habitation has direct impacts as well, even if it is minimal in many ways. Everything adds to the system.

Global Warming is only referencing the rise in global temperatures. We know that the earth has gone through warming and cooling periods since it has existed, but this particular warming trend is very rapid and it correlates with the rise of the Industrial Revolution and our relatively recent discovery of fossil fuels. Did we cause it? Not by ourselves, but we certainly haven't been good caretakers either.

Climate Change refers to the shifting of environmental elements that control....climates. The explanation is obvious but deceptive. When the Jet Stream shifts, for example, you get longer warming and cooling seasons. This messes with crops, hibernations, migrations, and what comes down from the sky. Storms get more violent in certain areas, they disappear in others (massive droughts). As the environment seeks a new equilibrium, things become more extreme. Hurricanes come later in a season and are more powerful. The number of tornadoes and their speed increase. Winters get wetter, or weaker, so you get more flooding due to water saturation or more chemicals released into the atmosphere since permafrost absorbs a lot of stuff, like carbon. You get more droughts, more wildfires, more flooding from dry earth that can't soak up rain fast enough. You get slower replenishment of water tables. You get sinkholes and even non-fault earthquakes.

Entire ecosystems shift and change. This has direct effects on economies, diseases, populations, food supplies, infrastructure...you name it. We have built a world on the presumption that this is how it will always be, that the climate will never change and that resources are infinite. We now know that this isn't true.

There is definitely a lot of politics and agendas in science, but the response should be that it shouldn't matter. You wouldn't want to live in a poorly maintained home, with inhabitants that don't clean up after themselves, so why should we tolerate it when we do it to the only home that really matters, the only home we all share and depend on for survival: Earth.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:24   Link #2950
ganbaru
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Anatomy of a White House win: how Obama outmaneuvered Romney
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A62A520121108

Tea Party still has clout despite election setbacks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A707Z20121108
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:24   Link #2951
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Saying "global warming is destroying the planet" is a red herring. The earth will toddle along merrily, the question is, will the higher life forms (including us) have fun or be miserable because ... say, much of the agricultural zones go to hell? That unpredictable superstorms decimate the infrastructure we use to get along?

Do we want to take mitigating preventative measures or just wait til the crocodiles are "taking the young in the night"?
exactly, having one side declare imminent total apocalypse and the other side burying head in sand pretending nothing is going on doesn't help anyone, especially when both seems hell bent on pressuring/twisting the science to fit their view, instead of letting them find out what's really happening.

But hey, it'll all be pointless in another few weeks
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:28   Link #2952
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Is there even enough scientific evidence to suggest that humans have a real and clear impact on global warming?
While it depends on who you ask, the general consensus is almost all studies seem to heavily imply humanity is contributing to the phenomenon one way or the other. How much is anyone's guess, but we are certainly responsible to a certain degree. What the scientific community seems to be debating mostly here is that if there really is anything we can do any more, that if the earth has already entered into a cycle of climate change and we'll be going along for the ride like it or not.

Quote:
Should we be more geared to trying to deal with the natural effects of ........., or trying to slow down human impact (If it really does)?
I personally think the former will yield a much better result than the latter. And by following the former, the latter will be addressed by default. We may have to wait for a few more Sandy to occur before the opinion tilt toward the majority where people want to do something, so politics can be drowned out at the face of urgency. Christie/Obama was such an example. It's kind of sad, but that seems to be the trend we are following where we come together when we're facing disaster.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:33   Link #2953
RRW
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Vegas Employer: Obama Won, So I Fired 22 Employees

Quote:
LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas) — A Las Vegas business owner with 114 employees fired 22 workers today, apparently as a direct result of President Obama’s re-election.

“David” (he asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons) told Host Kevin Wall on 100.5 KXNT that “elections have consequences” and that “at the end of the day, I need to survive.”
http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11...-22-employees/
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:41   Link #2954
ganbaru
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That guy isn't even trying to save tha apparence; Obama didn'even made a new decision than he start firing his staf.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:42   Link #2955
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
What the scientific community seems to be debating mostly here is that if there really is anything we can do any more, that if the earth has already entered into a cycle of climate change.
Personally my guess is that probably not, unless there's a secret government lab somewhere with alien weather control technologies

It's difficult enough to get industrialized nations like the US/EU etc. that actually have the technologies and the means to deploy them to reduce to do anything, for developing nations like china/india etc, you can forget about it.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:45   Link #2956
Xion Valkyrie
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Seems like even if Romney won he'd still have had to fire those 22 employees. He just chose to do it after the election for publicity.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:49   Link #2957
Vexx
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Nothing has actually happened. His business environment hasn't changed. Its purely jackassery and the especially stupid kind. Not a business decision, he's thinking with his lower colon.
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Old 2012-11-08, 17:56   Link #2958
ganbaru
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Le parfum du chaos électoral de 2000 plane sur la Floride ( sorry, article in french )
http://www.lapresse.ca/international...5_accueil_POS2

Edit: How Ridiculous Gerrymanders Saved the House Republican Majority
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._majority.html
Quote:
Same deal. Democrats have been packed into four deep blue districts. Republicans have given themselves the other 14. They controlled the process in North Carolina and Michigan, and gave themselves similar maps. To be perfectly fair, Democrats played the same game in Illinois and Maryland, squeezing out suburban Republicans by packing just enough of Cook County and Montgomery County, respectively, into their districts. But in states that weren't very gerrymandered, like Iowa and Colorado and New Hampshire, you ddin't see a huge divergence between the presidential vote and the House votes. Had some ruthless court gerrymander evenly divided Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and North Carolina, and had Democrats been able to distribute their votes differently, they could have won up to a dozen more seats, knocking on the door of the majority. I predicted this two months ago, but the ridigity of the gerrymander is more impressive when you see it hold off a minor wave.
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Old 2012-11-08, 19:18   Link #2959
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
What red herring? I based my statement off of your combined posts in this thread, not simply the fact that you are posting an article from a LaRouche magazine.
Uh James, the article came from this website:
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/

The other website simply preserved it so it was the only copy I could find (the original is gone AFAIK).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Obama pass (or even asked the congress to) zero laws restricting gun ownership as the president.

Romney Banned assault rifles in MA back as governor.

Just saying some of these gunowners are so far from reality it is not even funny.
You are correct, which is why I voted against Romney.
However, Obama's "Fast and Furious" nonsense is what has many gun-owners "up in arms " about him.
I hope you are correct and that their fears are completely unjustified, but Obama did say in the third debate he would seek a new AWB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
@GundamFan0083 about ammo shortage

My theory is that international drug cartes are buying all the ammo in your area (paying way more than retail price), so the local law enforcement does not really know why it is happening or are telling you what they think you would accept without a second thought. Therefore IMO it is non political issue.
I hope you are wrong about that.

@RE: "Global Warming", "Climate Change", "ManBearPig" and the other Chickenlittle scenarios. Whether you believe them or not is really moot when we look at the issue of Obama's "Cap and Trade" bill since this bill will not stop the real issue behind all of this.
That being POLLUTION.
I am all for a plan to completely eliminate our use of carbon-based fuels, but not with any of the proposed legislation that has been put forward thus far.
None of it will stop, or even reduce, the use of carbon-based fuels.
All it will do is oppress the consumer with higher prices and if done to the extreme that has been called for, cause great harm in probably deaths on a large scale.

We need a viable replacement for oil, and we need it as soon as possible with the least amount of loss of liberty, life, and property.
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Old 2012-11-08, 19:26   Link #2960
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Is there even enough scientific evidence to suggest that humans have a real and clear impact on global warming?

From what I've been able to muster, the answer is debated by scientists. The reality is that global warming is a real phenomenon that we need to deal with, but how much do we really impact it?
If you ask the ones responsible, obviously the answer is no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Should we be more geared to trying to deal with the natural effects of global warming, or trying to slow down human impact (If it really does)?
Definitely, if the priority is a short-term patch, rather than a solution to the problem. Let's not also forget that dealing with the effects, does not exclude eliminating their cause.
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