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Old 2012-11-16, 10:10   Link #3321
Neki Ecko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Obama now learned that Republicans only play hardball. They see compromise as a sign of weakness. If the GOP want to play Hardball then Obama would play along. He has a better hand of cards this time, and time is on his side.

It is GOP's responsibility to offer something Obama would sign before everyone's taxes go up. Either way Obama wins.
Or GOP knows that 2014 is around the corner and with the Dems owning the 2012 elections, the House GOP must be very careful, because if they dont, they might be losing out on alot of seat and that is the last thing that GOP needs right now, losing control of the House.
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Old 2012-11-16, 11:04   Link #3322
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
they might be losing out on alot of seat and that is the last thing that GOP needs right now, losing control of the House.
You make it sound as if the republicans are using their brains instead of their guts to plan ahead. They are still using the bush ideals of not changing the road map, even if it is headed to perdition.
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Old 2012-11-16, 11:47   Link #3323
Netto Azure
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Well I doubt the Republicans are in any fear of losing the House for the next decade or so. They pretty much Gerrymandered the competitive districts to their favor after the 2010's census mandated redistricting. It wouldn't be much of a problem if split ticket voting was the norm...but nowadays things are going back to the old straight ticket voting strategy. Heck if districts retained their 2008 composition, the House would have a slight. Dem majority right now.
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Old 2012-11-16, 14:21   Link #3324
Ithekro
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Remember their call to the peoples from I think 1989. "No. New. Taxes."
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Old 2012-11-16, 14:49   Link #3325
GDB
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Though really, the Bush tax cuts wouldn't be a new tax. They'd just be allowing a tax cut to expire. Going back to normalcy from a low point is not the same as raising said point from a default position.
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Old 2012-11-16, 15:01   Link #3326
Ithekro
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Depends on the spin. "Taxes go up" is all they need for those that hate taxation. Several to the point they want the IRS disbanded as an illegal (or perhaps just unConstitutional) institution.
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Old 2012-11-16, 15:38   Link #3327
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Depends on the spin. "Taxes go up" is all they need for those that hate taxation. Several to the point they want the IRS disbanded as an illegal (or perhaps just unConstitutional) institution.
What I am seeing with my (supposedly) colorless lens is that no one wants to end the party, everyone wants it to last forever, getting more drunk, doing more stupid things. It is the same thing that happened in Europe, the party lasted until everyone was completely blasted, reality reared its ugly mug and budget cuts were inevitable. That is why my bet is on the automatic budget cuts kicking in and the USA falling of the fiscal cliff, because neither the republicans nor the democrats want to be blamed for ending the party and when reality shows in all its ugly glory they will accuse one another of being responsible.Sadly there is no "taking responsibility" culture in the USA, just finger pointing and "I didn't do it" ala bart simpson.
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Old 2012-11-16, 19:22   Link #3328
Netto Azure
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I think the term Fiscal cliff is misleading. I think Austerity bomb sounds more exciting. (ie. Europe being back in recession due to austerity policies.)
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Old 2012-11-16, 19:24   Link #3329
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I think the term 'Bloody Apocalypse of Terror' sounds even cooler.
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Old 2012-11-16, 23:27   Link #3330
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
What I am seeing with my (supposedly) colorless lens is that no one wants to end the party, everyone wants it to last forever, getting more drunk, doing more stupid things. It is the same thing that happened in Europe, the party lasted until everyone was completely blasted, reality reared its ugly mug and budget cuts were inevitable. That is why my bet is on the automatic budget cuts kicking in and the USA falling of the fiscal cliff, because neither the republicans nor the democrats want to be blamed for ending the party and when reality shows in all its ugly glory they will accuse one another of being responsible.Sadly there is no "taking responsibility" culture in the USA, just finger pointing and "I didn't do it" ala bart simpson.
Well then the good news is that this time, no work is needed to be fiscally responsible; they just had to do NOTHING.
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Old 2012-11-17, 00:10   Link #3331
Vexx
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Aye, after doing the analysis ... the fiscal cliff might be pretty amusing to watch, particularly the GOP fallout.
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Old 2012-11-17, 00:15   Link #3332
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Well then the good news is that this time, no work is needed to be fiscally responsible; they just had to do NOTHING.
But do not forget that cold turkey albeit successful is anything but pleasant and this time around it will really last for years.
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Old 2012-11-17, 01:26   Link #3333
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
But do not forget that cold turkey albeit successful is anything but pleasant and this time around it will really last for years.
No matter what anyone does, it is going to be 1. Unpleasant and 2. Last for years.

These are facts. So it makes no difference either way.

The GOP could have taken the better deal last time. They decided it is better to try getting Obama kicked out instead. They lost.

You pay the price for losing a gamble.
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Old 2012-11-17, 07:20   Link #3334
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Either way, it seems that more soup kitchens need to be built; whoever wins that is.
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Old 2012-11-17, 10:52   Link #3335
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
What I am seeing with my (supposedly) colorless lens is that no one wants to end the party, everyone wants it to last forever, getting more drunk, doing more stupid things. It is the same thing that happened in Europe, the party lasted until everyone was completely blasted, reality reared its ugly mug and budget cuts were inevitable. That is why my bet is on the automatic budget cuts kicking in and the USA falling of the fiscal cliff, because neither the republicans nor the democrats want to be blamed for ending the party and when reality shows in all its ugly glory they will accuse one another of being responsible.Sadly there is no "taking responsibility" culture in the USA, just finger pointing and "I didn't do it" ala bart simpson.
There is a whole lot of finger pointing going on now and predictably in the future. The social stances of the GOP makes them the "greater evil," bolstering everyone's fervent (and in my opinion, blind) support of Obama, whose party is really not much better from an economic perspective. Neither party wants to make REAL steps to address our fiscal problems. Don't get me wrong, I prefer Obama to Romney too... but let's pull back on the Democratic cheer-leading a bit here.
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Old 2012-11-17, 11:09   Link #3336
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You pay the price for losing a gamble.
That's all well and good when you're gambling with your own assets. The GOP isn't.
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Old 2012-11-17, 13:57   Link #3337
Lost Cause
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As far as finger pointing goes, once the GOP is ousted (according to y'all) then where do you think the finger will point? I don't believe the Democrats are entirely without blame either.
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Old 2012-11-17, 14:08   Link #3338
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
As far as finger pointing goes, once the GOP is ousted (according to y'all) then where do you think the finger will point? I don't believe the Democrats are entirely without blame either.
That's a good thing. The Dems clearly got problems of their own, but for as long as the GOP is being the bigger joke then no one would notice.

What made you think I believe Dems should get away with no scrutiny? Everyone needs to be criticised to keep them honest.

However, the GOP is an incompetent opposition party. They couldn't criticise the Democrats because they can't offer a true alternative. That means the GOP as we know it needs to go.

I welcome finger pointing of the Democrats. But only from people in a position to know what they are talking about. The GOP don't know how to point fingers.
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Old 2012-11-17, 14:09   Link #3339
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
As far as finger pointing goes, once the GOP is ousted (according to y'all) then where do you think the finger will point?
That is an easy one, to China no doubt. Echoes of "Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed"
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Old 2012-11-17, 14:09   Link #3340
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
As far as finger pointing goes, once the GOP is ousted (according to y'all) then where do you think the finger will point? I don't believe the Democrats are entirely without blame either.
Its funny how nobody wants to point the finger on him/herself first and then check if others are making more trouble. Its good to have a party to blame for everything.

Seriously though, I think one cannot expect political parties to be independent. All parties are subject to the same lobbyism. So what you get is essentially just a different flavour of the same substance when you change the party at the helm.

Lets assume the lobbyism means you get offered dirt. Now, depending on the elected party it comes either in the flavour dust or poo, thats the choice you have.
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