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Old 2012-09-21, 04:51   Link #641
Urzu 7
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Aegir makes the case that Iran isn't pursuing nuclear capabilities. VCV argues it makes sense that they would if they were. I hope Aegir is right and they really aren't pursuing a nuclear program. VCV is right in pointing out that Iran fears the U.S.

I feel less conflicted about the possibility of war with Iran right now. I'm back to feeling that we really shouldn't engage in a war with them. A war with Iran would be bad in so many ways, and if we invaded them because we wanted to stop them from going nuclear and then it turns out that they weren't actually trying to create a nuclear weapons program, it'll be the Iraq war all over again; a total mess up and a total mess of a situation.

I just worry about the next time the GOP gets into power, they might declare war on Iran. Hopefully Romney doesn't win the 2012 election, but then the GOP has a better chance of winning the 2016 election if they lose the 2012 election.
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Old 2012-09-21, 05:39   Link #642
Ithekro
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Aside from the 30+ history of problems between the United States and Iran (a problem not shared with Pakistan), Pakistan did not sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Iran did. There was no legal or diplomatic recourse possible when it comes to the Nuclear weapons of India and Pakistan. There is with Iran...because they signed that treaty. India, Pakistan, and Israel did not for the very reason they did not want the other powers telling them what they could and could not do for national defense. North Korea joined with them by backing out of the Treaty via legal means (though under dubious timing as they would have already been making weapons by then). Iran has not as of yet.

That is Iran's problem.

Does having nuclear weapons prove that Pakistan is safe from the US? No. We got drones flying over them and killed Osama in their country. One reason they were allowed to continue was the balance of power between them and India, which also helps counter China in some respects (as the US was countering the Soviets and was having trouble countering boh Russia and China).
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Old 2012-09-21, 07:31   Link #643
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Ann Romney, to critics in GOP: “You want to try it? Get in the ring.”
http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/09/20/...he-ring-audio/
She didn't got the message: Noonan: Romney Needs a New CEO
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...719456198.html
Is it too soon to say than it's like ''beatting a dead horse'' ?
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Old 2012-09-21, 08:09   Link #644
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Ann Romney, to critics in GOP: “You want to try it? Get in the ring.”
http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/09/20/...he-ring-audio/
Quote:
“In all the past debates, he would find me in the audience and after each question, he’d look at me ’cause it was like, ‘Did I do O.K. Ann? Was that O.K.?’” she said.
While sweet, it also is rather sad. He shouldn't need his wife to give him a nod of approval on how he does his job.

Quote:
“The real measure of a person is not how much money we make, but how we live our lives,” she said.
This is either code for "If we don't make money, support those who do so they can make more", or she hasn't gotten the GOP memo.
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Old 2012-09-21, 08:37   Link #645
Vexx
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At this point, as for the Romneys, I call it "shooting dead fish in a barrel". And it has gotten many local races "nationalized". Even the county and state races, the GOP candidates have to be hogtied to admit they're GOP. It appears on none of the pounds of political mail I'm getting now. Same story from my friends in other states. The word "GOP" is being scrubbed off their mailings.

Except for the gerrymandered districts full of loonies, there are storm clouds looming for congressional and state candidates who affiliate with Romney-Ryan.

Quote:
“The real measure of a person is not how much money we make, but how we live our lives,” she said.
Sadly, Ann, the words out of your own mouth give us measure of that as well :P Have some more cake...
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Old 2012-09-21, 09:33   Link #646
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
At this point, as for the Romneys, I call it "shooting dead fish in a barrel". And it has gotten many local races "nationalized". Even the county and state races, the GOP candidates have to be hogtied to admit they're GOP. It appears on none of the pounds of political mail I'm getting now. Same story from my friends in other states. The word "GOP" is being scrubbed off their mailings.
Let's hope than the Dem win enough Congress seat to control it back, a working Congress should be usefull.
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Old 2012-09-21, 09:39   Link #647
Mr. DJ
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Let's hope than the Dem win enough Congress seat to control it back, a working Congress should be usefull.
a working Congress will be useful...as long as both sides stop dicking around.
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Old 2012-09-21, 10:16   Link #648
Vexx
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I actually am not fond of a "1 party" situation in the congress and WH - it encourages the loonybin contingent of whatever party is in.

BUT ... the GOP needs to f'ing grow up and stop with this multi-year tantrum. If losing Congress is what it takes for them to drop kick the ideologues out, then so be it. Unfortunately, its starting to look like it will take another massive loss in 2016 before the message gets through.
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Old 2012-09-21, 12:09   Link #649
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I actually am not fond of a "1 party" situation in the congress and WH - it encourages the loonybin contingent of whatever party is in.

BUT ... the GOP needs to f'ing grow up and stop with this multi-year tantrum. If losing Congress is what it takes for them to drop kick the ideologues out, then so be it. Unfortunately, its starting to look like it will take another massive loss in 2016 before the message gets through.
Yep, it isn't a good thing that America only has one real option right now.

But it is not Democrat's fault that the GOP couldn't tie their own shoe laces. America will be better off when there is a viable Republican party to keep Dems honest.
(Even better if you can have a representative system which allows a third party, but one thing at a time.)
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Old 2012-09-21, 12:37   Link #650
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I think this will be seen as a win for Romney. Gotta love that logic.

Last edited by GuidoHunter_Toki; 2012-09-21 at 12:54.
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Old 2012-09-21, 12:55   Link #651
ganbaru
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^ Bullshit Mountain indeed

And that still more polite than what it should.
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Old 2012-09-21, 12:58   Link #652
Vexx
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I wonder how many of the "bullshit" listeners made it through this clip before their heads exploded from cognitive dissonance.

Fox ... is why some of my relatives live in a faux-reality so disconnected from facts its impossible to have a discussion with them.
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:32   Link #653
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

Fox ... is why some of my relatives live in a faux-reality so disconnected from facts its impossible to have a discussion with them.
I know that feeling. I have a few relatives that are so adamant about fox being the voice of truth. I remember when fox spinned the whole Obama "you didn't build that" speech I tried having a conversation with one of my relatives about how they could possibly take that speech the wrong way and all they kept doing was going back onto that one line "you didn't build that" without any of the context of the rest of the speech. They sounded like a mouth piece for fox news and I just couldn't continue the conversation.

Honestly at this point I'm embarrassed to tell people I'm Republican because of what the party has become today. The Republican party has become nothing but a joke furthered by the atrocity that is fox news.
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:36   Link #654
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
I know that feeling. I have a few relatives that are so adamant about fox being the voice of truth. I remember when fox spinned the whole Obama "you didn't build that" speech I tried having a conversation with one of my relatives about how they could possibly take that speech the wrong way and all they kept doing was going back onto that one line "you didn't build that" without any of the context of the rest of the speech. They sounded like a mouth piece for fox news and I just couldn't continue the conversation.

Honestly at this point I'm embarrassed to tell people I'm Republican because of what the party has become today. The Republican party has become nothing but a joke furthered by the atrocity that is fox news.
Ha! You R(h)ino! To be honest, I'm not in the U.S. but I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal.. And I can't stand Fox News at all. Makes me want to vomit out my intestines and strangle them with it..

Sidebar: It leans a bit too far left, but have you watched "The Newsroom" on HBO?
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:40   Link #655
GuidoHunter_Toki
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I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal.. And I can't stand Fox News at all. Makes me want to vomit out my intestines and strangle them with it..
Agreed. My boat, I'm an Athiest Republican.

In today's Republican political age though where so much of the rhetoric is driven by madness (of the Fox News kind) or is entrenched firmly in Christian ideals (especially their social ideas, many of which I deplore), how is someone like me to find his way?
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:45   Link #656
Neki Ecko
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Guido, I like I was saying before, if the Republican didnt turn out to be what they are today, they would have alot more support but they went to "Hate" Mode and its turning everybody off to them and to newer voters.

On related news, Romney finally showed his tax return and he was taxed 14.1%, now first of all, he should done it earlier and two, who is his tax person because I am curious about that.
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:50   Link #657
ganbaru
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^ Didn't he show only for the year 2011 ?
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:56   Link #658
Neki Ecko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
^ Didn't he show only for the year 2011 ?
Yep, and he is still refusing to show more tax returns like his dad did when he was running for Pres. I think Romney's Swan Song is beginning.

Oh btw, Faux News reporting that he paid 20% , i got nothing to say about that.
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Old 2012-09-21, 14:01   Link #659
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
Romney finally showed his tax return

(cue online reaction in 3...2...1...)


Normal American reaction:
"Man, he paid a TON in income tax!"
"I'm glad the Romneys donated nearly 30 percent of their income to charity."

Normal liberal reaction:
"Man, he makes a gazillion dollars and that's all he paid? He needs to pay his fair share!"

Last edited by james0246; 2012-09-21 at 17:47.
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Old 2012-09-21, 14:06   Link #660
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
(cue online reaction in 3...2...1...)


Normal American reaction:
"Man, he paid a TON in income tax!"

Normal liberal reaction:
"Man, he makes a gazillion dollars and that's all he paid? He needs to pay his fair share!"
Ha.. I don't react that way because much of his income probably comes from dividends on investments and capital gains.. So the problem isn't so much with him, it's but with the tax system.

Last edited by james0246; 2012-09-21 at 17:47.
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