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Old 2012-10-19, 01:42   Link #1601
Vexx
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This article is a fair explanation of why the ultra right wing is full of shit when they call Obama or the Democrats "liberal" or "socialist". A pointed exposition of how deeply in error those labels are (and probably how their brains would burst encountering the real thing ).

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...-for-liberals/
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Old 2012-10-19, 06:16   Link #1602
ganbaru
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Analysis: "47 percent" lament belies Republican tax credit support
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89I08T20121019
Quote:
A key reason: The breaks in question - the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit - are based on core Republican philosophies of encouraging work to lift people out of poverty, Republican aides and many conservatives say.

The number of Americans not owing federal income taxes has been growing since the mid-1980s, and the increase largely stems from expansion of these two tax credits - championed by Republicans from conservative economist Milton Friedman to former President Ronald Reagan.

"It is absolutely true - there is some degree of disconnect between complaining about the 47 percent and yet supporting the policies that brought it about," said economist Alan Viard of the conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute.
''To be disconected'' and ''to be Republican'' should be considered to be synomimous for now.
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Old 2012-10-19, 06:53   Link #1603
Lord of Fire
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Ann Romney says "it is now or never"

Quote:
Mitt Romney's wife says her family will be "absolutely" through with politics if her husband does not win the November 6 election.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/b...-1226499139236

I hope she's got their suitcases packed already.
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Last edited by Lord of Fire; 2012-10-19 at 10:48.
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Old 2012-10-19, 06:55   Link #1604
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
Ann Romney says "it is now or never"



http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/b...-1226499139236

I hope she's got their suitcases packed already.
Another reason to vote against Romney .
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Old 2012-10-19, 07:41   Link #1605
Vexx
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How the US's representational democracy is being destroyed, state by state - thanks largely to Citizens United. Money from singular sources trumps consensus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/us...ts-giving.html
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Old 2012-10-19, 08:25   Link #1606
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*blinks* why does he think getting rid of state income tax is a good idea?
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Old 2012-10-19, 08:30   Link #1607
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
*blinks* why does he think getting rid of state income tax is a good idea?
He wants all taxes to be purely a sales tax (with exceptions for food or whatever). This isn't necessarily a bad idea (like a VAT) to replace the 3-tier (income, property, sales) type of tax system. It encourages saving rather than spending blah blah blah. It has the unintended consequence of making it tougher from economies to recover from down cycles, etc.


The problem is he's just buying his way to his solution - not exactly a "debate of ideas", more like steamrollering it with trucks of money -> plutocracy.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2012-10-19 at 08:45.
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Old 2012-10-19, 08:38   Link #1608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
*blinks* why does he think getting rid of state income tax is a good idea?
Most likely, among other things, there are too many loopholes one can use.
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Old 2012-10-19, 10:04   Link #1609
GDB
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No, it's more likely that he doesn't want his investment income to be taxed at both the state and federal level, so he's pushing to eliminate the state side, since that's easier to eliminate. If sales tax is the only tax, then he just needs to buy everything online or over the phone from other states and have it shipped to him. Easy enough to do.
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Old 2012-10-19, 10:22   Link #1610
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
He wants all taxes to be purely a sales tax (with exceptions for food or whatever). This isn't necessarily a bad idea (like a VAT) to replace the 3-tier (income, property, sales) type of tax system. It encourages saving rather than spending blah blah blah. It has the unintended consequence of making it tougher from economies to recover from down cycles, etc.


The problem is he's just buying his way to his solution - not exactly a "debate of ideas", more like steamrollering it with trucks of money -> plutocracy.
He is probably a pragmatist since :

1. Consumerism in US can help generate greater revenue in sales taxes instead of regular tax, but it is highly volatile due to market swings and business cycles.

2. He recognised money talks louder than it seems in the US political world.

He may be a using the lobbyist weapons against them, but his methods will simply drive US deeper into plutocracy despite his good and down-to-earth intentions.
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Old 2012-10-19, 13:41   Link #1611
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YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2012-10-19, 17:39   Link #1612
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I thought I heard some things along these lines: the GOP doesn't really have any good ideas on how to deal with the debt issue, and Romney's plans on how to do things will add 4-5 trillion to the debt in four years. Can anyone confirm these things?

Also, another question: The GOP loves to point out that the debt has risen by 5 trillion more 'under Obama's presidency', but...how much of it is really to be blamed on the Obama administration? Isn't it only something like a little over 2 trillion? Does anyone know the answer to this?
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2012-10-19 at 17:57.
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Old 2012-10-19, 18:01   Link #1613
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I thought I heard some things along these lines: the GOP doesn't really have any good ideas on how to deal with the debt issue, and Romney's plans on how to do things will add 4-5 trillion to the debt in four years. Can anyone confirm these things?

Also, another question: The GOP loves to point out that the debt has risen by 5 trillion more 'under Obama's presidency', but...how much of it is really to be blamed on the Obama administration? Isn't it only something like a little over 2 trillion? Does anyone know the answer to this?
Let's all be honest here, no one really has any particularly good ideas on how to deal with the debt problem ..
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Old 2012-10-19, 18:05   Link #1614
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Okay, I kind of chuckled at that video when I noticed every single person in the audience was a woman.
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Last edited by GuidoHunter_Toki; 2012-10-19 at 19:31.
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Old 2012-10-19, 18:32   Link #1615
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Let's all be honest here, no one really has any particularly good ideas on how to deal with the debt problem ..
As long as factions keep their "special puppies" off the table, that is going to remain true. However, some factions plan to trample anyone who isn't "their special very wealthy friend" to do it. I suspect that is actually worse for everyone - rather like giving all the money to, say, Dick Cheney and expecting to see improvement for anyone except Dick Cheney.
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Old 2012-10-19, 20:13   Link #1616
Xion Valkyrie
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Having ONLY sales tax sounds simple on paper, but in reality it can be very complicated when you take into account that you need to have separate tax tiers for different types of goods. You'd need to have higher taxes on luxury goods but keep essential goods close to tax free.

Determining what goods fall into what brackets will end up being just another battle ground for special interests, where certain things will end up having low sales tax just so certain groups can move their money around freely. Also, corporations would try to put higher taxes on competing products to put their competition out of business.
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Old 2012-10-19, 20:51   Link #1617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?


Sorry, I couldn't help but going ROFL when I watched this video.

Nice group of women in the audience as well.
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Old 2012-10-19, 20:54   Link #1618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
He wants all taxes to be purely a sales tax (with exceptions for food or whatever). This isn't necessarily a bad idea (like a VAT) to replace the 3-tier (income, property, sales) type of tax system. It encourages saving rather than spending blah blah blah. It has the unintended consequence of making it tougher from economies to recover from down cycles, etc.


The problem is he's just buying his way to his solution - not exactly a "debate of ideas", more like steamrollering it with trucks of money -> plutocracy.
@Vexx, a sales tax just means he, Romney, pays as much as the poor/homeless as far as goods & services go. I can't, not in a million years, ever approve of a taxation system like that if it means the scrapping of the other tiers of taxing.
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Old 2012-10-19, 21:04   Link #1619
Vexx
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Well, the problem *I* have with it is that it means assets accumulate over time, taking more and more out of the general system. Even with our multiple vector system - we're seeing that behavior in large corporations. They and the ultra-wealthy are simply sitting on huge wads of cash ... or they've invested in abstract activities that do not actually create real value (*cough* derivatives, futures, whatever) - the "we don't need to hire anyone to multiply our money" problem.

Typically, VAT systems have all sorts of exemptions for essential goods (food, etc) but yeah I didn't say it was wonderful
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Old 2012-10-20, 01:05   Link #1620
Fipskuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Let's all be honest here, no one really has any particularly good ideas on how to deal with the debt problem ..
Actually there are ideas out there, starting with not giving any more tax breaks to the ultra rich and not doing things that would further increase the debt (basically not doing anything that Romney would want the state to do).
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