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Old 2012-08-29, 10:25   Link #121
Casshern
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I thought I was gonna hate it, but I actually liked it. I especially like Tobi's face. I just hope he starts fighting to win now instead of the dumbed down numbskull he's been fighting like so far.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:26   Link #122
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Two observations:

1) Someone (I forget who) last week was suggesting that the as-of-yet obscured left half of Tobi's face might look markedly different from the part we've seen in previous chapters. Looks like that person was right.

2) If this is Obito and his dream was to be Hokage, it makes Itachi's warning to Naruto about possibly becoming "just like Madara" all the more relevant.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:26   Link #123
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Originally Posted by Targus View Post
I'm sold. Tobi is therefore multiple people? I think I can live with this.
Of course, or else why the need to use a mask?
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:26   Link #124
james0246
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
There's a difference between "Parallel" characters and "Character copies".

In any of the "parallel trios" there is one aloof guy (The Sasuke), one goofy guy (The Naruto), and one girl (The Sakura). Different characters that parallel the same roles can be radically different, but they'd still be considered The Sasuke, The Naruto, and the Sakura. Obito was The Naruto of his team, no matter how you look at it. In the other teams, it was always The Sasuke who ended up being the villain.
And that is a very simplistic interpretation. You (and Kishimoto) have not only simplified two characters down to a single word (that I don't think really fits any of the characters being discussed), but you have also denigrated an entire set of characters down to their gender rather than any potentially defining characteristic. In a larger context (beyond your one-word interpretation), It is a mistake that Kishimoto (and you) are making by trying to shoehorn these characters into specific parallels (or roles) when no parallel need exist in the first place. Kakashi, Obito and Rin had a unique character and team dynamic that was vastly different to Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura (let alone Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru). Saying "the Sasuke becomes the villain" is nice, but it is ultimately a meaningless statement since who Sasuke is, is very different than who Orochimaru is/was (etc). You are creating soundbites rather than actual character definition let alone discussion.

edit: To be clear, I am not "attacking" you, but rather the idea that Kishimoto has placed forth concerning the supposed parallels of these characters. This is simply bad writing on Kishimoto's part.

Last edited by james0246; 2012-08-29 at 10:46.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:33   Link #125
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Kids in the village live in parrallers, but adults are made in different way. I don't like it much, but it's obvious that Kishi made them so purpously. I guess it is his vision of childhood innocence or something like that. Or way to show how the village is one family with bonds and common traits.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:34   Link #126
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Originally Posted by Azerik View Post
It's 100% sure lol. Minato becomes Hokage after his first meeting with the A the current Raikage, which takes place after Kakashi is a Jounin, which happens only a few days before Obito's "death".
it sounds to me like minato was kage and it was A who was yet to be raikage...but ill fall back for now on the matter

i kinda like chapter 599. u know without the dialogue...
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:42   Link #127
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that one panel of Obito with white hair is bugging me =[
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:44   Link #128
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As someone said: Tobi is Obito, but it doesn't means only Obito is Tobi.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:55   Link #129
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Originally Posted by j0x View Post
it might be that Tobi = Obito's Body + Izuna's Spirit... it makes sense since Izuna being on par with Madara can master the full potential of the space-time power (kamui) of Obito's sharingan... i mean even Kakashi cannot even use space-time power (kamui) on the level that Tobi uses it lol

i come to this speculation from combining other peoples thought and sources
last one before i hit the decks... it also makes sense that Izuna posseses the body of Obito since that will explain how Tobi knows so much about Madara and the whole Shinobi World History

dang lets see if Kishimoto got that on his mind... Tobi = Obito's Body + Izuna's Spirit
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:58   Link #130
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
And that is a very simplistic interpretation. You (and Kishimoto) have not only simplified two characters down to a single word (that I don't think really fits any of the characters being discussed), but you have also denigrated an entire set of characters down to their gender rather than any potentially defining characteristic. In a larger context (beyond your one-word interpretation), It is a mistake that Kishimoto (and you) are making by trying to shoehorn these characters into specific parallels (or roles) when no parallel need exist in the first place. Kakashi, Obito and Rin had a unique character and team dynamic that was vastly different to Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura (let alone Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru). Saying "the Sasuke becomes the villain" is nice, but it is ultimately a meaningless statement since who Sasuke is, is very different than who Orochimaru is/was (etc). You are creating soundbites rather than actual character definition let alone discussion.

edit: To be clear, I am not "attacking" you, but rather the idea that Kishimoto has placed forth concerning the supposed parallels of these characters. This is simply bad writing on Kishimoto's part.
Aaaargh! WHERE AM I SIMPLIFYING ANYONE? I NEVER SIMPLIFIED ANYONE ANYWHERE! I'm making parallels. PARALLELS.
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Old 2012-08-29, 10:58   Link #131
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This was a really terrible chapter. On top of having a flashback full of chronological errors, Kishi really seems to love his Uchihas.
Firstly Kakashi canonically graduated at the age of 5 and was chunin at 6. Gai was 7 and 11 and Obito was 9 and 11 when graduating and becoming chunin. However the chapter implies that Kakashi, and all the other named jounins (Gai, Kurenai, Ebisu, Genma, Hayate, Etc) were all the same graduating class and all the same age.

Secondly, Minato should have become Hokage after the war, since he became Hokage after using Hiraishin to win the war. On top of that, once he became hokage, he would have added the coat to his attire, which is conspicuously absent in the chapter and kakashi gaiden.

Thirdly, what is up with the Uchiha's invincible face? Naruto has shoved a Rasengan into the faces of 2 different Uchihas and the most damage done was to their clothes (a scratched headband and a broken mask) On top of this, Obito was crushed by rocks, suffered heavy internal bleeding, and should have been blinded by a rock crushing his head, yet all he has is a few scars?

Fourthly, apparently Obito became an S-ranked ninja capable of matching the Hokage, wielder of the eternal mangekyo, and master of the sharingan in the 2-5 years between his death and Naruto's birth?

Finally Obito's reasons for world domination is what exactly? The flashback makes it seem like the entire thing is a hissy fit over the fact that Rin preferred Kakashi over him.
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:03   Link #132
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To me this was just dumb, my biggest thing about the whole obito thing is that the cave in should have destroyed his other eye. since his face was show to have scars from the cave in(only one half which is bullshit since the cave in crushed his whole body) then his eye should be destroyed i mean how can you have a giant ass rock fall on your face and your eye not be smashed to pancake. unless the all mighty uchiha clan cant have the eyes destroyed unless from over use of techs. I think Kish got lazy and just said fuck it its all fake anyway to lets just do as many asspulls as we can till the once good series is just a bunch of bull
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:04   Link #133
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Originally Posted by Targus View Post
Oh yes. There are. Nagato got the Rinnegan before Jiraya even started training Minato. There's no way Obito could've even been born and he clearly told Konan he got Nagato and Yahiko to start the Akatsuki and it was he who gave him the Rinnegan. All this happened before Obito was even born. How is this not a plot-hole?

I'm totally calling this. Kishi pulled a Metal Gear Solid and got Tobi to be Obito same way Liquid took over Ocelot.
wait.wasnt the legendary sannin away during some war when the kyuubi was summonned by tobi to attack the village?(i dont rmbr them being around)that was when jiraiya was with nagato.and minato was already married with a child and had a team already.but tobi claiming that he gave the rinnegan to nagato thats abit off track.
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:09   Link #134
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Originally Posted by prakash123 View Post
wait.wasnt the legendary sannin away during some war when the kyuubi was summonned by tobi to attack the village?(i dont rmbr them being around)that was when jiraiya was with nagato.and minato was already married with a child and had a team already.but tobi claiming that he gave the rinnegan to nagato thats abit off track.
Canonically, Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko were trained by Jiraiya following the end of the Second War. Minato and Obito fought in the third war. So Obito wasn't born when Nagato awakened his Rinnengan
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:10   Link #135
Teru987
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Originally Posted by prakash123 View Post
wait.wasnt the legendary sannin away during some war when the kyuubi was summonned by tobi to attack the village?(i dont rmbr them being around)that was when jiraiya was with nagato.and minato was already married with a child and had a team already.but tobi claiming that he gave the rinnegan to nagato thats abit off track.
from what i remember nagato got it after he killed 2 leaf ninjas then a guess a few days later they ran into the sannin then jiraiya stay with them cause he thought nagato was the sage reincarnate.

He was writing his book where naruto got his name from and i think he following oro
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:21   Link #136
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Originally Posted by cjl View Post
Canonically, Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko were trained by Jiraiya following the end of the Second War. Minato and Obito fought in the third war. So Obito wasn't born when Nagato awakened his Rinnengan
oh and was it ever mentioned where the sannin were during the attack 16years ago?

could it be that kishi didnt make a mistake in drawing minato's statue but maybe he was hinting to us about a paralell universe/dimenson?....just saying.its not like he would make a mistake so far out.i mean all this while if tobito has been travelling through dimensions there has to be somthing on the other side.it cant just be empty right?
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:23   Link #137
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T -OBI-TO came about through the fusion of Obito and Zetsu. Once they fused they assumed Zetsu size which explains why Obito looked grown during the fight with Yondaime, and why his arm melted when he was hit with a Rasengan.

I know a lot of people are disapointed but the proof was always there...your expectations are too high thus your disapointment
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:23   Link #138
james0246
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Aaaargh! WHERE AM I SIMPLIFYING ANYONE? I NEVER SIMPLIFIED ANYONE ANYWHERE! I'm making parallels. PARALLELS.
Unless you are talking about mirroring (which you are not (a decent example of this would be Gaara and Naruto, that is a true parallel/mirroring of characters and events)), you (and Kishimoto) are using the word parallel to compare analogous aspects of each character. Consequently, by using one word descriptors as the basis for your argument, you are simplifying each character in order to create a stronger parallel than what is really there (there are basic analogous aspects between Naruto and Obito or Sasuke and Orochimaru, but simply looking at their histories, character arcs, plots and other elements will show how frivolous these aspects are, which makes any discussion of the characters pointless).

(That being said, I am unclear why you are 'yelling'. If you feel you are being misunderstood, then either clarify your statement, or simply drop the discussion (with me). Yelling does nothing.)

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
This was a really terrible chapter. On top of having a flashback full of chronological errors, Kishi really seems to love his Uchihas.
Firstly Kakashi canonically graduated at the age of 5 and was chunin at 6. Gai was 7 and 11 and Obito was 9 and 11 when graduating and becoming chunin. However the chapter implies that Kakashi, and all the other named jounins (Gai, Kurenai, Ebisu, Genma, Hayate, Etc) were all the same graduating class and all the same age.
I didn't mind them being in the same class together (it was kind of like, whatever), but I really did not understand the Chuunin exam section of the flashback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
On top of this, Obito was crushed by rocks, suffered heavy internal bleeding, and should have been blinded by a rock crushing his head, yet all he has is a few scars?
To be fair, it was obvious from the images that Obito's skull was not crushed. Specifically, he couldn't have had a discussion with Kakashi unless his skull (and brain) were still intact. Consequently, his face/head could have only received minor damage (which it appears is true). His body was smashed though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
Fourthly, apparently Obito became an S-ranked ninja capable of matching the Hokage, wielder of the eternal mangekyo, and master of the sharingan in the 2-5 years between his death and Naruto's birth?
It was only 1 to 2 years, and Sasuke did the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
Finally Obito's reasons for world domination is what exactly? The flashback makes it seem like the entire thing is a hissy fit over the fact that Rin preferred Kakashi over him.
I guess we will find out next chapter .

Last edited by james0246; 2012-08-29 at 11:51.
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:25   Link #139
itachi-san314
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so the theory with the most evidence proves true? there's lots of people mad about the most obvious outcome...

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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Makes me wonder, why Obito never tried to get back his other eye from Kakashi.
Seeing how even using one eye makes him nearly untouchable, it would really be interessting to see what he could do with both his eyes.
this was one of the biggest issues to support obito theory in my book since any other ninja would have stolen kakashi's eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiryuu View Post
Doesn't make sense. He just murdered his clan for shits and giggles?
that was probably madara as long haired tobi

very strange chapter. i'm not really a fan of the lack of dialogue but at least it was different. it'll be nice to get an explanation for all this since i've argued all along that even though tobi is obito, he can't be just obito. i guess we'll see
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Old 2012-08-29, 11:26   Link #140
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Unless you are talking about mirroring (which you are not (a decent example of this would be Gaara and Naruto, that is a true parallel/mirroring of characters and events)), you (and Kishimoto) are using the word parallel to compare analogous aspects of each character. Consequently, by using one word descriptors as the basis for your argument, you are simplifying each character in order to create a stronger parallel than what is really there (there are basic analogous aspects between Naruto and Obito or Sasuke and Orochimaru, but simply looking at their histories, character arcs, plots and other elements will show how frivolous these aspects are, which makes any discussion of the characters pointless).

(That being said, I am unclear why you are 'yelling'. If you feel you are being misunderstood, then either clarify your statement, or simply drop the discussion (with me). Yelling does nothing.)
Maybe YOU are okay with being wrongfully accused of being dumb, but I'm not. You have still not shown me exactly WHERE I simplified ANYONE.
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