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Old 2012-09-06, 17:21   Link #161
Artimus_Prime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRareTreeCat View Post
I know its simple as to why he would choose such a persona I never said that he shouldn't; I was replying to him pointing out as he said that there was no reason to lie anymore because Konan was going to die regardless. So he's thinking Tobi/Obito did give Nagato the Rinnengan because he claimed that he did and he doesn't see a reason for him to lie. Yet if he thinks there is no point anymore to lying than why did he still lie about his identity?
my five cents on the issue...
continuing the persona was for the benefit of the war as mentioned. the name madara is powerful enough to force the shinobi world to bear arms. but also, continuing the persona was for our (the readers) benefit as well. i agree, it makes sense to say to konan since you are gonna die anyway, i am obito yadda yadda yadda. but then we would know that and it was obviously too soon for the reveal. another though is how obito no longer cares about who he once was(remember how emotionless he is against minato). this is could the real reason he continues to perpetrate. he simply no longer cares for this world and awaits the results of the moon's eye plan to rid he and the other characters of "this reality". i kinda like this notion because it kinda also explains why the masked guy says "do you know how long i have waited for this" during that kushina ordeal and why...he was playing the role of someone older...(or he has been brainwashed into doing so)

that said, the real madara likely gave nagato his eyes (somehow). tho it is possible that he originally intended to give them to obito.

I'm speculating as always...
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Old 2012-09-06, 18:24   Link #162
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I think Obito, was saved by Madara , and then at some point he took him to The Naka Shrine and made him read the tablet and it was like full metal alchemist (gate of knowledge) and something he saw there made him change his way of thinking. XD. Perhaps he saw the history repeating and repeating the shit about the hatred circle.
And he said fuck this I need to stop this shit.
That will explain all the knowledge he has about ninja world.
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Old 2012-09-06, 19:01   Link #163
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Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but on the last page when Madara appeared it looked to me like Tobi/Obito wasn't all that pleased to see him. What do you guys think?
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Old 2012-09-06, 19:36   Link #164
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^Of course he is upset. Obito was just about to start his epic length sob fest story. Instead he is going to have to do something. .
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Old 2012-09-06, 20:44   Link #165
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Originally Posted by prakash123 View Post
but didnt edo madara say that he never expected to be revived by the edo tensei?he wanted nagato to revive him with the rinnegan.so he knew nagato thus he gave nagato the rinnegan for safe keeping.read chapter 559
I guess he planned for Nagato to receive his Rinnegan after he died and resurrect him. Probably had to be Nagato because of him being an Uzumaki.
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Old 2012-09-06, 22:02   Link #166
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I have a complaint! If knowing the hand seals to Edo Tensei gives the zombie full control then how come when Orochi revived the second hokage, he didn't break control? Tobirama was the one who developed the technique. I assume he know how to cancel it. Had he broke free, he could have taught the 1st and they would have been the most powerful entities in the story that can't die.
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Old 2012-09-06, 22:50   Link #167
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The rationalization is that Orochimaru didn't use the same seal than Kabuto, he had their minds erased and their body completely under his control.
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Old 2012-09-06, 23:26   Link #168
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Lmao... this story is getting more hilarious by the chapter.

What's next? There is more than one Tobi mask?
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Old 2012-09-06, 23:33   Link #169
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There are three Tobi masks and two masked men.
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Old 2012-09-06, 23:54   Link #170
UsagiTenpura
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A simple solution to this mess...

Infinite Tsukuyomi, what says there isn't a version you can cast on a single person?
Because Rin died emo Obito entered the dreamworld willingly and became "one will" with Madara.

His own personality is asleep inside a dream and his current self is only part of Madara's will.
I don't like this solution but I'm expecting something simple and kinda boring like that.
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Old 2012-09-07, 01:03   Link #171
itachi-san314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
my five cents on the issue...
continuing the persona was for the benefit of the war as mentioned. the name madara is powerful enough to force the shinobi world to bear arms. but also, continuing the persona was for our (the readers) benefit as well. i agree, it makes sense to say to konan since you are gonna die anyway, i am obito yadda yadda yadda. but then we would know that and it was obviously too soon for the reveal.
i agree with this but then the question becomes, 'then why even bring up his name at all?' he had no reason to lie, so if kishi is going to make him say his name and lie then what is the point? why even include that in the dialogue? it doesn't make sense in regard to konan, tobi or the readers.

Quote:
another though is how obito no longer cares about who he once was(remember how emotionless he is against minato). this is could the real reason he continues to perpetrate.
same thing here basically. if he no longer cares then why bring up his name in the first place? why even tell konan anything? she's just a means to an end if he doesn't care anymore. no reason to have that conversation for tobi if he's emotionally devoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRareTreeCat View Post
If he had no reason to lie or manipulate Konan then why did he continue to call himself Uchiha Madara? Still doesn't make sense; I mean when did he have the eyes implanted and how come he wasn't aware of anything at the time when he awakened it?
its either crappy writing or there is a piece of madara in tobi which is what i have believed for a long time. it would make many of tobi's possible lies actually hold true
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Old 2012-09-07, 01:08   Link #172
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
my five cents on the issue...
continuing the persona was for the benefit of the war as mentioned. the name madara is powerful enough to force the shinobi world to bear arms. but also, continuing the persona was for our (the readers) benefit as well. i agree, it makes sense to say to konan since you are gonna die anyway, i am obito yadda yadda yadda. but then we would know that and it was obviously too soon for the reveal. another though is how obito no longer cares about who he once was(remember how emotionless he is against minato). this is could the real reason he continues to perpetrate. he simply no longer cares for this world and awaits the results of the moon's eye plan to rid he and the other characters of "this reality". i kinda like this notion because it kinda also explains why the masked guy says "do you know how long i have waited for this" during that kushina ordeal and why...he was playing the role of someone older...(or he has been brainwashed into doing so)

that said, the real madara likely gave nagato his eyes (somehow). tho it is possible that he originally intended to give them to obito.

I'm speculating as always...
If he has no reason to lie, he has no reason to tell the truth either. In fact, the Evil Overlord's List is very specific that revealing your secrets to someone "who is about to die anyways" is a very bad idea.
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Old 2012-09-07, 05:31   Link #173
Masuzu
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Guys, what happened to you?

You're looking for reason from the crazy man?

I know this whole Tobito thing doesn't make sense, but expecting Tobito himself to be reasonable?

Come on, guys.
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Old 2012-09-07, 08:51   Link #174
solidguy
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Did Rin die somewhere between Obito's 'death' and his clash with Minato? If her death is what motivated him to become a big bad then she should've, no?
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Old 2012-09-07, 10:59   Link #175
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It's funny how people are jumping on Kishi for Rin being the reason Obito flipped his s*** when clearly there are other factors involved. Is it just possible that Madara might have played a role in Obito becoming Tobi? I think so.

The alternative is that Obito, after learning of Rin's death, came up with the exact same Moon's Eye Plan, independently of Madara. What a coincidence. Let me reenact how it all went down:

Obito: Rin died. That makes me angry
Madara: I will bring peace to the world by taking it over
Obito and Madara (in unison): I know what I'll do! Moon's Eye Plan!
Obito and Madara (in unison): Wait. That's my plan
Obito and Madara (in unison): Stop saying what I'm saying
Obito and Madara (in unison): Jinx!
Obito and Madara (in unison): Double Jinx!
Obito and Madara (in unison): Back Jinx!
Obito: Jinx no backsies!
Madara: F***!
Obito: Yes. I get to be Madara.
Madara: I guess I'll die now.

(or something to that effect)

I admit, that does sound like some pretty weak storytelling ... if you don't use your brain.

Clearly Madara is the one responsible for Obito's transformation into Tobi. Rin's death may have been the catalyst, but the person who engineered Tobi's creation is Madara. Be patient. We will get the explanation. Why else do you think Madara magically appeared right when Tobi's mask came off?
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Old 2012-09-07, 12:01   Link #176
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Not that I want Obito to be redeemed (though he will be), but why Naruto? Kakashi vs. Obito has some actual dramatic weight behind it (more so than Naruto vs. Obito). They were rivals. They were teammates. They were friends, and they had love for each other (and another). There fight has real meaning, especially if Kakashi can actually get Obito to listen. Naruto vs. Obito...their fight is not meaningless, but it definitely lacks the dramatic oomph of Kakashi vs. Obito (especially considering that a Naruto vs. Sasuke fight is right around the corner). And while they have some semi-similar experiences, they do not have the shared experiences of Kakashi and Obito. And while Naruto can definitely understand what Obito has gone through, Kakashi will know what Obito has gone through.
Good points. It will be interesting to see how all of this turns out.

What I really want to know is what significance Obito has to Madara.

Is Obito really just some goofy Uchiha kid Madara found dying under a rock or does he have a special place in the manga?

Another thing to consider. Madara's body is said to be even better than it was in his prime. As an Edo Tensei zombie he has unlimited energy and physical attacks can't destroy him. Plus he has freed himself from the bonds of the ninja who summoned him. Is Obito still going to try to revive him to his original flesh and blood self? He went through the trouble of getting the Rinnegan back. Madara also has the Rinnegan. I wonder if Madara will be revived and somehow be even more powerful than he is now.
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Old 2012-09-07, 12:06   Link #177
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post
I admit, that does sound like some pretty weak storytelling ... if you don't use your brain.
Nice one, you really shut up all those nonexistent people who thought Madara had nothing to with this!
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Old 2012-09-07, 13:12   Link #178
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay View Post
What I really want to know is what significance Obito has to Madara.
it's almost a certainty at this point that obito was his student for however short a time after kakashi gaiden. not only madara's student, but he also served as the torch carrier of the moon's eye plan until madara's planned resurrection. if obito's persona didn't mean anything, madara wouldn't have called tobi by the name obito. he would have said izuna or zetsu or whoever else could be controlling tobi, but he didn't, he said obito which means to me that obito is tobi. if izuna was in there at all, there's no way madara would address obito instead of his own brother. the only other option, which i still believe until kishi says otherwise, is that madara himself is a small part of tobi. and obviously madara wouldn't address himself when he arrived.

'you seem to be having fun... madara' ~madara

no, obito is clearly important to be recognized that way and to have madara show up just in time.

Quote:
Is Obito really just some goofy Uchiha kid Madara found dying under a rock or does he have a special place in the manga?
obito's innate ability makes him special. he is most likely tied to a powerful uchiha lineage, probably madara's direct descendant or close to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Nice one, you really shut up all those nonexistent people who thought Madara had nothing to with this!
lol! my sarcasm detector is in the red! just the fact that madara knows his name and acknowledges him is fact enough that they knew each other and madara (being the overwhelming senior in the duo) was the guiding force behind tobi and their plans.
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Old 2012-09-07, 13:16   Link #179
Hiking_Bear
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Nice one, you really shut up all those nonexistent people who thought Madara had nothing to with this!
Thanks. And nice job to you on reading

Spoiler for quotes:


and also nice job on assuming that everyone who posted about this latest chapter did so on this forum. I love sarcastic posts Always a treat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
There are three Tobi masks and two masked men.
What makes you believe that there were two men posing as Tobi?
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Old 2012-09-07, 13:31   Link #180
Mists
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It would be a nice twist if actually Obito killed Madara much like Sasuke almost-killed Oro. Obito turned on his master then took his identity and had no intention of reviving him.

This could go into the point that Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan and expected to be revived by him if anything happens. But Obito kills Madara and assumes the role and trust of Nagato anyway.

Madara probably wanted to destroy the world while Obito wants to destroy reality....and then there raises an interesting question - what makes Madara's goal different?
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